F101
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shockwaveriderz
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Are you 18 ?
Donaldsrockets
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I wouldn't think you would need to be certified to purchase an F101T because I think you can buy G125T's without certification.
marvSRG
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Originally posted by Donaldsrockets
I wouldn't think you would need to be certified to purchase an F101T because I think you can buy G125T's without certification.
Technically, any motor with an average thrust over 80ns is considered high power, but that's ofen overlooked. Check questions in your L-2 cert practice guide.
Um, that's not the case with NAR. There are several questions which specifically ask the definition of a high power motor and the answer they give is a motor with more than 160 Ns. Here is the question and answer copied directly from the NAR pool of test questions:
Which of the following statements are true concerning the definition of a High Power Rocket Motor?
A. Total impulse is more than 160 Newton seconds
Correct me if I'm overlooking something. I'm getting ready for the test myself.
I just posted the NAR question because I noticed you are tripoli and I didn't know if the definitions are different between the two.
Which of the following statements are true concerning the definition of a High Power Rocket Motor?
A. Total impulse is more than 160 Newton seconds
Correct me if I'm overlooking something. I'm getting ready for the test myself.
I just posted the NAR question because I noticed you are tripoli and I didn't know if the definitions are different between the two.
marvSRG
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Well, the Tripoli study guide that I have (the one that came with my membership) has two sets of 50 questions...the first 50 are technical questions, and the second 50 are safety code questions, 25 of each are randomly chosen for the test. On #12 of the safety code part it reads:
12. What is a high power rocket motor?
a. A rocket motor with more than 80 Newton-seconds of total impulse and 80 Newtons of average thrust.
b. A rocket motor with more than 160 Newton-seconds of total impulse or 80 Newtons of average thrust.
c. A rocket motor with more than 160 Newton-seconds of total impulse and 160 Newtons of average thrust.
In the answer guide following the questions for #12 it reads:
12. b. 1-3 Definitions-High Power Rocket Motor
And when you refer to the indicated place in the safety code it reads:
High Power Rocket motor. A rocket motor that has more than 160 newton-seconds of total impulse or an average thrust of greater than 80 newton-seconds and that otherwise meets the other requirements set forth in this code.
Although obviously often overlooked (because it's obviously not that big a deal), that is what the code states, technically making the F101 an HPR motor...and of course that means that technically the same goes with the G125, the old Rocketflite G160's and F104's and etc...
12. What is a high power rocket motor?
a. A rocket motor with more than 80 Newton-seconds of total impulse and 80 Newtons of average thrust.
b. A rocket motor with more than 160 Newton-seconds of total impulse or 80 Newtons of average thrust.
c. A rocket motor with more than 160 Newton-seconds of total impulse and 160 Newtons of average thrust.
In the answer guide following the questions for #12 it reads:
12. b. 1-3 Definitions-High Power Rocket Motor
And when you refer to the indicated place in the safety code it reads:
High Power Rocket motor. A rocket motor that has more than 160 newton-seconds of total impulse or an average thrust of greater than 80 newton-seconds and that otherwise meets the other requirements set forth in this code.
Although obviously often overlooked (because it's obviously not that big a deal), that is what the code states, technically making the F101 an HPR motor...and of course that means that technically the same goes with the G125, the old Rocketflite G160's and F104's and etc...
That's what figured. Thanks for the clarification. Apparently NAR doesn't make that distinction. I noticed that both of you making that point were Tripoli so I figured there must be a difference in the definitions between the two organizations. Thanks for clearing that up.
shockwaveriderz
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Actually the NAR does make the distinction that model rocket motors with an average thrust > 80 NS of thrust are also considered high powered rocket motors requiring the person to be at least 18 years of age and to also be certified L1.....
There is of course a loophole in the NFPA Code for High Power Rcoketry that allows a person 18 or above to purchase 1 HPR motor for certification purposes but of course although a F101 or Gxxx is considered a HPR motor, you can only cert L1 with an H or I.....
I might add that the CSPC, Consumer Safety Product Commission also uses this definition......As does the NFPA codes that the NAR/TRA helped develop.....
I don't know why the NAR does not include this information on their website..... or why NFPA 1122 Code for Model Rocketry does not also contain this....It is contained within NFPA 1127:
3.3.17.1 High Power Rocket Motor. A rocket motor that has
more than 160 N-sec (36 lb-sec) but no more than 40,960
N-sec (9208 lb-sec) of total impulse, or an average thrust
greater than 80 N, or more than 62.5 g (2.2 oz) of propellant,
and that otherwise meets the other requirements set forth in
NFPA 1125, Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High
Power Rocket Motors.
from CSPC 1500.85 :
(8) Model rocket propellant devices
designed for use in light-weight, recoverable,
and reflyable model rockets,
provided such devices:
(i) Are designed to be ignited by electrical
means.
(ii) Contain no more than 62.5 grams
(2.2 ounces) of propellant material and
produce less than 80 newton-seconds
(17.92 pound seconds) of total impulse
with thrust duration not less than 0.050
second.
There is of course a loophole in the NFPA Code for High Power Rcoketry that allows a person 18 or above to purchase 1 HPR motor for certification purposes but of course although a F101 or Gxxx is considered a HPR motor, you can only cert L1 with an H or I.....
I might add that the CSPC, Consumer Safety Product Commission also uses this definition......As does the NFPA codes that the NAR/TRA helped develop.....
I don't know why the NAR does not include this information on their website..... or why NFPA 1122 Code for Model Rocketry does not also contain this....It is contained within NFPA 1127:
3.3.17.1 High Power Rocket Motor. A rocket motor that has
more than 160 N-sec (36 lb-sec) but no more than 40,960
N-sec (9208 lb-sec) of total impulse, or an average thrust
greater than 80 N, or more than 62.5 g (2.2 oz) of propellant,
and that otherwise meets the other requirements set forth in
NFPA 1125, Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High
Power Rocket Motors.
from CSPC 1500.85 :
(8) Model rocket propellant devices
designed for use in light-weight, recoverable,
and reflyable model rockets,
provided such devices:
(i) Are designed to be ignited by electrical
means.
(ii) Contain no more than 62.5 grams
(2.2 ounces) of propellant material and
produce less than 80 newton-seconds
(17.92 pound seconds) of total impulse
with thrust duration not less than 0.050
second.
UhClem
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1) NFPA 1122, 2002 edition, does contain the exact same definition for a high power rocket motor as NFPA 1127, 2002 edition.
2) The NAR does have this information in the web site. It isn't presented prominently but it is there in the procedures for high power certification.
3) The quoted section of th TRA safety code is from an outdated version of NFPA 1127. NFPA 1127 was revised in 2002. I would find it very odd if TRA proclaims NFPA1127 as their official safety code but then fails to keep up with the revisions.
2) The NAR does have this information in the web site. It isn't presented prominently but it is there in the procedures for high power certification.
3) The quoted section of th TRA safety code is from an outdated version of NFPA 1127. NFPA 1127 was revised in 2002. I would find it very odd if TRA proclaims NFPA1127 as their official safety code but then fails to keep up with the revisions.
shockwaveriderz
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hi david:
I can't seem to find that hpr motor definition in NFPA 1122..which section is that in?
I found the NAR info ......
I have no comment about what/why the tra does or doesn't do....
I can't seem to find that hpr motor definition in NFPA 1122..which section is that in?
I found the NAR info ......
I have no comment about what/why the tra does or doesn't do....
All Hobbies in Puyallup, WA had some F-101's still in stock when I was there about 2 weeks ago. They were 10 and 15 second delay versions. I would suggest you telephone them to see if they have them or you could email them I guess. Their url is www.allhobbies.net
Good luck!
I have a couple but I have plans for them.
Len Bryan
Good luck!
I have a couple but I have plans for them.
Len Bryan
I PM'd you as there may be a way . . .
Len Bryan
Len Bryan
