Ethernet or Wifi to workshop?

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CalebJ

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
That eliminating a power line connection, I think you're realistically at burying fiber or two of these:

cbrarick

Wildman CT
cat 8 cable, it's not a lot more expensive then 5 and has ton more bandwidth. After all, we're not gonna be at 12 mbits/sec download forever

Well-Known Member
PoE takes low voltage and transforms it into higher voltage and applies it to the ethernet cable. At the other end, that voltage is transformed down back into low voltage to power the device on the cable. This would be needed to power a relay switch between the house and shop in order to use standard ethernet cabling. (100m limit)

TCP/IP over power depends on both ends being on the same power circuit and sounds like it wouldn't be an option for you.

Wireless (distance limited but well within directional antenna limits)
Copper ethernet with a PoE switch in the middle to extend the length
Fiberoptic ethernet but fiber transceiver needed at both ends.

Those are really your 3 options

Staff member
Global Mod
Thanks.

cerving

Owner, Eggtimer Rocketry
TRF Supporter
I spent many years as a network admin/engineer, and designed the campus network at the last office building that I worked in before I was "traded". Do not exceed 100m for Ethernet cabling, especially if you are looking at PoE. You will run into problems that will be extremely hard to diagnose, until you pay somebody with a TDR to come and scope out the cabling. Since the two buildings are on different power meters, you won't be able to use an Ethernet-over-Power solution. The Ubiquiti bridges are a good deal, however they requires some level of network technical expertise to properly implement. The easiest thing to do might be to get an Orbi wireless network, they have outdoor bridges with extended ranges. You'll need two of the outdoor units... one on each building. Another option would be Meraki (by Cisco), they're relatively easy to install, but they're pretty expensive and there's a licensing fee. Good luck... this isn't an easy thing to do right.

JPalmer621

Well-Known Member
I think POE migth not be an option because the shop will be on a separate meter.
I thought that would be your answer when you said how far you workshop is away. Another thing to consider is the construction of your workshop. A metal building will severely limit your wifi signal. May need an external antena if you are going to use wireless.

Bowman

Well-Known Member
I need to run the internet to my 3D printing workshop. I need it to go about 300-500 feet.
How tight are your numbers, 300 - 500 is a big spread. What is the least distance that you could create between switches?

Marc_G

Given that all the stuff needed to set up an external wifi bridge can be had for under $200 and installed in an hour or so and setup within another hour, not sure why the other solutions aren't relegated to the plan B category. Also, my understanding is that the need is mostly for decent bandwidth between home and shed; connection to the internet is secondary and limited by DSL speeds anyway. Come on, Starlink! cwbullet Obsessed with Rocketry Staff member Administrator TRF Lifetime Supporter Global Mod Given that all the stuff needed to set up an external wifi bridge can be had for under$200 and installed in an hour or so and setup within another hour, not sure why the other solutions aren't relegated to the plan B category.

Also, my understanding is that the need is mostly for decent bandwidth between home and shed; connection to the internet is secondary and limited by DSL speeds anyway. Come on, Starlink!
I wish Starlink was widely available.

dhbarr

Amateur Professional
I wish Starlink was widely available.
I am super excited to be able to tell the cable and telco oligopolies who have refused to bring me service to take their subsidies and jam them right up their easements.

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Global Mod
I am super excited to be able to tell the cable and telco oligopolies who have refused to bring me service to take their subsidies and jam them right up their easements.
That I agree with 100%. I live on a farm. I have a fiber cable in front of my house that touches my property but can I connect to it, no.

caveduck

semi old rocketeer
Hey Chuck, I've been involved with a lot of network setups over the decades all the way out to coal and cement production sites where they start up 50HP motors right next to you. A WiFi bridge like Ubiquiti is going to be the least expensive option and they're perfectly reliable, and secure enough. Lots of WISPs (wireless ISPs) use this kind of gear for backhauls of 50km or more. You may have to replace the equipment every few years but it's dirt cheap. At your distance you can probably use 9-12 dBi panel antennas on each end and have fantastic signal. Personally I'd put the antennas outdoors and use 5GHz because I like bandwidth.

For ultimate performance you could bury some fiber, but that cable is not cheap, and eventually somebody's gonna cut it with a backhoe. With a wifi link, if one unit dies and you keep a spare around, you can be back up in 10 minutes. Not so much if your cable run gets damaged. If you had fiber upstream then I would definitely look at putting in a fiber run, but not otherwise.

j.a.duke

You can't trust Teamviewer. I used it for years for that exact purpose and then they cut me off because they said my usage was "suspicious", despite that I used it 99% of the times to remote to other computers in my house. I filled out their forms and provided an explanation and never got a bleep of a response.
I’m currently using RealVNC’s “free” account to do the same thing. Limited to 5 machines, but for most people, that’s probably plenty.

RealVNC Home Subscription

Cheers,
Jon

Jim Green

Member
The old phone service wire coming from the telephone pole to my house looks pretty beefy. I'm wondering if you could use something like that to run from your phone service connection block where your service connects to your house out to your shop to another connection block and then to another DSL switch which would then have ethernet ports to connect your computer equipment in your shop.

dhbarr

Amateur Professional
The old phone service wire coming from the telephone pole to my house looks pretty beefy. I'm wondering if you could use something like that to run from your phone service connection block where your service connects to your house out to your shop to another connection block and then to another DSL switch which would then have ethernet ports to connect your computer equipment in your shop.
Very much depends on the length, what wires are there, and what they're run next to; but yes you can run dirty bootleg ethernet over old phone lines.

Bowman

Well-Known Member
Hey Chuck, I've been involved with a lot of network setups over the decades all the way out to coal and cement production sites where they start up 50HP motors right next to you. A WiFi bridge like Ubiquiti is going to be the least expensive option and they're perfectly reliable, and secure enough. Lots of WISPs (wireless ISPs) use this kind of gear for backhauls of 50km or more. You may have to replace the equipment every few years but it's dirt cheap. At your distance you can probably use 9-12 dBi panel antennas on each end and have fantastic signal. Personally I'd put the antennas outdoors and use 5GHz because I like bandwidth.

For ultimate performance you could bury some fiber, but that cable is not cheap, and eventually somebody's gonna cut it with a backhoe. With a wifi link, if one unit dies and you keep a spare around, you can be back up in 10 minutes. Not so much if your cable run gets damaged. If you had fiber upstream then I would definitely look at putting in a fiber run, but not otherwise.
That Ubiquiti gear looks really nice, and affordable!
They've come a long way since I installed my first "Novell Netware" network.
Talk about an installation and management nightmare!

I think I would definitely lean in that direction if I were tackling the same problem.

Arpak

Active Member
I wish Starlink was widely available.
I just got an email today that Starlink is available in my area (San Antonio, TX). It seems like they've gotten the usable latitude down a fair bit.

David J

Well-Known Member
A co-worker signed up for Starlink last week. Expected equipment shipment is later this summer. \$100 deposit, refundable until it's shipped. This will be great for him as he live 45 miles from town.

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Global Mod
I just signed up for Starlink.

PatD

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Switches already owned, cable not direct burial but outdoor rated in conduit, lots and lots of volunteer labor. I have no idea why we're still discussing this possible-but-not-recommended off-the-cuff remark.

Let's pick apart cantennas next, then debate how only Truly Blessed approaches from Real Vendors will deliver the Holy Packets undisturbed.

EDIT: This post, like all of mine, should not be taken internally. See a thread doctor if your irritation lasts longer than four hours.
Are the Holy Packets somehow related to the Holy Hand grenade? First thought when I read your post. Now you have an idea where my head resides.
Edit: deleted doubled quote

dhbarr

Amateur Professional
Are the Holy Packets somehow related to the Holy Hand grenade? First thought when I read your post. Now you have an idea where my head resides.
Edit: deleted doubled quote
First transmittest thou the Ethernet header, which dost in its own body contain the Internet Protocol header!

OverTheTop

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Normally using wireless networking I think about it very hard. I keep thinking about very hard until the idea goes away. I prefer wired.

Having said that the run you need sounds like it would be good with point-point wifi with directional antennas. I guess Starlink is good too . Do you need a ground station for each building?

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Having said that the run you need sounds like it would be good with point-point wifi with directional antennas. I guess Starlink is good too . Do you need a ground station for each building?
That seems doubtful. One ground station per customer, as far as I know. The issue of connecting the two buildings would seem to be independent of the Starlink hookup.

OverTheTop

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
That's what I thought.

rklapp

NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter

On a side note, I have a family member who insists that we shouldn't talk on a wireless phone during a lightning storm so the energy doesn't zap us through the phone line. True story...

Arpak

Active Member
Normally using wireless networking I think about it very hard. I keep thinking about very hard until the idea goes away. I prefer wired.

Having said that the run you need sounds like it would be good with point-point wifi with directional antennas. I guess Starlink is good too . Do you need a ground station for each building?
From what I know the kit you get has the receiver dish (which auto orients to the best position, kinda neat) a modem/router combo, and a big ol' POE injector to power the dish. So for now one per network, maybe in the future they'll have bigger system support? They did some tests on a C-130 so they seem to be open to other applications. I'd like to see a central tower that acts as a repeater for existing devices to connect to it like a MAN (Metropolitan Area Network).