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Estes Vapor

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Bruiser

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Thank you all. I am really happy with the way the paint came out but I'm a little disappointed in the rocket.

This rocket is best served with 24mm motors. I built mine with the 29mm mount because I kept reading how it is really a Star Orbiter with a 24mm mount and different fins so I thought why not? I had 29mm parts left over from Star Orbiter kits that I used the body tubes out of. Well it turned out to be like putting a big block in my 69 Camaro so I could autocross faster only to find out the car was just as fast with the 350 and now I spend double on gas...

I'll say that if had known that long rockets require more calibers to be stable before I built it I either would have (a) made the fins bigger or (b)just have left it 24mm. Only been a BAR for not quite a year so I still have many things to learn.

I'll offer a bit of advise to anyone that is thinking of building one. If you are going to cut out new fins because you want to change to basswood or plywood or maybe you want ttw fins I suggest making the fins slightly larger. With fins this small you'd be surprised how much of a difference adding 1/4" will make.

I have some E12's hanging out and I think that I'll use them on this rocket. I bought them for a scratch built rocket that turned out to heavy for them (Lockheed Defender build). Anyway, I just need to build me an adapter to do so. Gonna have to look thru my parts box and see if I have a piece of tube for the motor mount :)

-Bob
 

K'Tesh

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Looks good! Now you have an excuse to get more of them. ;)
 

John Taylor

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Bob the CP on the Vapor is 32.91" from the front. Because it is a long skinny rocket it needs more than 1 cal. Try 2- 2.7 cal. Add nose weight if needed. I use 24mm motors in my Star O. Flown it on F44's, a F21, and E30's. Unless you e got good eyes and a chute release I would be wary of 29mm motors. The Estes E12 might Cato on you also. Even the F44 took it to 1800feet.
 

John Taylor

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Checked the modded Vapor last night when I got home. I am going to have to add some nose weight. I am at barely 1 cal forward of the C.P. What I've found so far is:
Star Orbiter CP is 38.15
Vapor CP is 32.91 but
Open Rocket puts it at 34.4

Anyone else run a sim on the Vapor giving the CP???
 

Bruiser

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my ork file shows the CP at 34.139

Yeah, about those E12s. I have a few other rockets I could fly them in but I like those rockets too much to risk it.

-Bob
 

John Taylor

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We fly all year here in TX I just have to decide which rocket I can risk blowing up.
 

Bill S

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Perhaps make an expendable rocket out of spare parts? Call it Estes E Quality Controller? :) Fly it until it dies in a fiery CATO! :)
 

Bruiser

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Here is the file I made my mask out of. I did not "click" all of the areas when I made the cut file in the cricut design room.

Vapor Digital.png

-Bob
 

dpower

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Looks great! The F15 should make for a nice, high flight. I fly the bottom half (lost the top half) of a Mean Machine on the F15-8, standard surface-mount balsa fins, and it really flies well (and high!). No nose weight, though with swept fins, the CP is farther back. Streamer recovery...
 
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Bruiser

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It seems that the monthly launch is on for this weekend. I built a new 29mm to 24mm mount adapter. The one I built for my IQSY Tomahawk (Star Orbiter bash) only fit Estes "D engines. Um, that was my first rocket as a BAR so I didn't know about "E" engines :) The only thing I need to do now is attach an ounce of weight to the nose cone. I read somewhere about using a paper clip and a fishing weight. Will that be alright for now? I will add some more weight permanently to the nose cone if the E12s don't Cato :)

Anyway, here is the new adapter in the rocket and outside the rocket: BTW, the engine can slide forward about 3/8ths of an inch from where it is positioned in the pic.
Vapor 24mm Mount Adapter.jpg


-Bob
 

neil_w

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Looks good. I really like the fin decal design on this one (along with the rest of the paint scheme). Different from the usual and really sharp.

In the future you may want to leave less overhang for the motor in the adapter, to keep the weight more forward. In fact, because it's going inside the screw-on-retainer, you really don't need it to hang back much at all, maybe only 1/4" or so, enough to grab the motor out of the adapter. There are probably ways to fashion the adapter that would leave no overhang at all (the Estes red plastic adapters work this way).
 

hprocketeer

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Looking forward to seeing it in action this Saturday. Looks like another fantastic finish like all of his rockets.
Mike
 

Bruiser

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Hey Neil, will the Estes red plastic adapter work with the 29mm retainer? The ply ring on my adapter is sized so the retainer captures it.

-Bob
 

kuririn

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+1 to what Neil said.
Yes, the Estes 24 to 29mm adapter will work with the retainer, as well as Estes BP AND AT composite 24mm motors, both SU and RMS. The only exception that I know of are the longer CTI (Cesaroni) cases.
You can even put an 18mm motor into an 18-24 adapter, and put that into a 24 to 29 adapter, for a lightweight MD bird like the Apogee Aspire, for example. But you would have to cut a custom spacer, as the orange Estes spacer is a hair too long. The new QJets even fit! Talk about brilliant engineering. And cheap to boot. No engine hooks or tape wraps.
1217191027.jpg 1217191031.jpg 1217191033.jpg

And here's another adapter, similar to yours but for the shorter D/C size. Instead of a ply ring you can use a tape wrap on half of the rear centering ring. CA the contact surface of the ring to prevent the paper lifting when you remove the tape.
1217191102.jpg 1217191102a.jpg 1217191103.jpg

Very logical.:startrekspock:
 

K'Tesh

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Looks good. I really like the fin decal design on this one (along with the rest of the paint scheme). Different from the usual and really sharp.

In the future you may want to leave less overhang for the motor in the adapter, to keep the weight more forward. In fact, because it's going inside the screw-on-retainer, you really don't need it to hang back much at all, maybe only 1/4" or so, enough to grab the motor out of the adapter. There are probably ways to fashion the adapter that would leave no overhang at all (the Estes red plastic adapters work this way).
Uhm... Neil, the kit only comes with two fin decals (for each livery scheme). I suspect that the fins were painted yellow, masked, then painted black. Finally the masks were removed revealing the yellow.
 

Bruiser

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Correct on just getting two fin decals. The fins were painted black and the yellow went over the black (pic in post 42). Same on the word "Vapor" and the white swirls near it. They were all painted over black. Oh and the back half of the splatter pattern. Yellow over the black. 2X is pretty opaque :)

-Bob
 
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Bruiser

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The Vapor made it's first flight today. I loaded up the E12-6 and took it out to the launch rod. I noted the rod was only 3 feet instead of the 4 I thought it was. I filled thru my mental notes and I thought that would be ok so I loaded it up and got ready to launch. The wind was varied so we waited for a lull and thought we had the timing right but by the time we got to "ignition" it had picked back up. Whoosh it went in a nice arc to the southeast. It was still moving quite fast when the ejection charge blew the nose cone. We looked for the chute and I thought I saw it, but then nothing. The Vapor was just tumbling on down. It was quite a distance off but I took a bearing and started a nice walk. I walked straight up to it and from 10 feet it looked ok. It wasn't until I walked to the other side that I saw the zipper. As I picked it up I realized that the parachute had deployed but at such a high speed it ripped the shroud lines right off the chute.
Vapor Flight 1.jpg



I took it back to the staging area debating along the way what would I do with it? Fix it or toss it... Then I got it back and we reviewed what happened and came to the conclusion it wind cocked due to the gust of wind and possibly a low rod speed.

So I just opened the sim and with a 48 inch rod the rod speed was 49.8 and projected altitude of 824 feet. I changed the rod to 36 inches and the rod speed changed to 42 fps.

While we were discussing it, it was also noticed that there is tube damage as well.
Vapor Flight 2.jpg


I think if I do repair it I will cut off the zipper area (which is about 3 inches long) and the rear from (and including) the word "Vapor". SO basically I will be keeping the section that has the splatter paint pattern and the ejection baffle. Right now it is in the display cabinet while I think it over.

-Bob
 

neil_w

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Ugh, sorry to hear it. Hope you can get it back into flying shape.
 
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John Taylor

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The Vapor made it's first flight today. I loaded up the E12-6 and took it out to the launch rod. I noted the rod was only 3 feet instead of the 4 I thought it was. I filled thru my mental notes and I thought that would be ok so I loaded it up and got ready to launch. The wind was varied so we waited for a lull and thought we had the timing right but by the time we got to "ignition" it had picked back up. Whoosh it went in a nice arc to the southeast. It was still moving quite fast when the ejection charge blew the nose cone. We looked for the chute and I thought I saw it, but then nothing. The Vapor was just tumbling on down. It was quite a distance off but I took a bearing and started a nice walk. I walked straight up to it and from 10 feet it looked ok. It wasn't until I walked to the other side that I saw the zipper. As I picked it up I realized that the parachute had deployed but at such a high speed it ripped the shroud lines right off the chute.
View attachment 401399


I took it back to the staging area debating along the way what would I do with it? Fix it or toss it... Then I got it back and we reviewed what happened and came to the conclusion it wind cocked due to the gust of wind and possibly a low rod speed.

So I just opened the sim and with a 48 inch rod the rod speed was 49.8 and projected altitude of 824 feet. I changed the rod to 36 inches and the rod speed changed to 42 fps.

While we were discussing it, it was also noticed that there is tube damage as well.
View attachment 401401

I think if I do repair it I will cut off the zipper area (which is about 3 inches long) and the rear from (and including) the word "Vapor". SO basically I will be keeping the section that has the splatter paint pattern and the ejection baffle. Right now it is in the display cabinet while I think it over.

-Bob
My advice is buy a new one and start over. They are very inexpensive except Labor. Seperate the rocket mid point instead of popping the nose cone. This will greatly reduce the chance of another zipper. Also very long shock cord will help. Most of all have fun with it. No worries.
 

mbeels

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If it were me, I'd want to repair this one and get it flying again, even if you build a new replacement. You put a lot of time and effort into it, and it looks like a fun rocket to fly! I find I fret a lot less about flying (and potentially losing) a rocket that has been through a repair or two. It looks repairable to me!
 

Bruiser

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I suppose I have time to rebuild it before I start my first build of the year. All I am missing is a motor mount tube. I have everything else in my stash of parts. I'm thinking on it.

-Bob
 
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