Estes-Shuttle: Build

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by BSNW, Jan 19, 2020.

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  1. Feb 4, 2020 #121

    BSNW

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    Wow man......That was very kind of you! Thank you very much. I am glad you like it. I has been sanding.........so stay tuned! :)
    Andrew
     
  2. Feb 4, 2020 #122

    BBowmaster

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    This build thread makes me feel like a caveman banging rocks together. Quite an inspiration to upgrade my build skills.
     
  3. Feb 5, 2020 #123

    jrap330

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    Have not build a kit in over 10 years so please excuse this question. Shock cord mount, you state straight forward but please elaborate. What are the 2 straps going across the Kevlar ? And is that all CA glue, gluing it into place? Seems the cord would ripe out with just 2 straps going across it. I used the card stock with slits cut in. Weave the shock cord in and out like a belt buckle and maybe put a knot at end to prevent it ripping out.
     
  4. Feb 5, 2020 #124

    neil_w

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    That would be epoxy, you never want to use CA with shock cords, makes them brittle.

    Andrew can clarify further, but it looks like two pieces of tape used just to hold the Kevlar in place while the epoxy dried. In the end, it's the epoxy doing most of the work, although if those pieces of tape end up epoxy-soaked then they might contribute as well.

    That is a non-traditional shock cord mount for a low-powered rocket. The Kevlar also looks really heavy for a rocket of this size, but the thickness of the braid should definitely increase the strength of the mount (lots of surface area for the epoxy to anchor into).
     
  5. Feb 5, 2020 #125

    BSNW

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    Yes, the "straps" going across the Kevlar is simply thin tape. I use a Q-Tip to "shmeer"/press in the epoxy into the Kevlar strap on the side that is to be affixed to the body tube. The tape only serves to hold it in place while I cover the small section of Kevlar with the rest of the epoxy.

    I don't see this being all that different than the Estes "tri-fold" method used on almost all model rockets. I am still simply gluing the shock cord to the body tube. Only I am skipping the paper and gluing it directly. The Kevlar in the photo is only 7/16 wide and is very soft. Unlike the Estes rubber band...it WONT break or burn. This wider strap also wont zipper/cut as easily as the thread style Kevlar that cuts body tubes like cheese. I use this set up on everything from BT-55 all the way up to light 4" air frames without a single failure. I hope this helps! :)

    Neil: The Kevlar in the photo is only about 6-7 inches inches and in addition to being very soft and supple....it weighs next to nothing when all things are considered. Try it...you may like it. I use it in small rockets with out any problems.

    Andrew
     
  6. Feb 5, 2020 #126

    neil_w

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    I actually meant "heavy" as in thick, strong. I know it's quite light. Not a criticism, just an observation. I don't actually own any Kevlar that heavy. :)
     
  7. Feb 5, 2020 #127

    BSNW

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    Oh no worries...I get ya now. I am very sorry I did not read you correctly...my bad. This Kevlar I am using is off a big spool I got from a guy at a launch. He was selling it for next to nothing. I have a LOT of 7/16th Kevlar, so I use it when I can. I have to CA the edges though...as it frays pretty bad after I cut it. Have a good day!
    Andrew
     
  8. Feb 13, 2020 #128

    BSNW

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    So things have slowed a down on this build a bit. I ended up getting a cold...then work got busy...yada yada yada.

    I left off with the whole rocket covered in the BIN primer. I did find some time to sit down with some 220 and sand away. It was not as hard as I thought it would be, but I did end up using some of my sanding tools to get into the "nooks and crannies". I know it is not a glamours post but below are some shots after the initial sanding. The next step is a light coat of spray primer...then more sanding with 400. THEN one more light coat of spray primer. Then more 400...then top-coat. This is NOT the case with the glider. I sanded that down and shot it with a light coat of primer. I will now just sand it with 400 and do a light top-coat. I think it is almost time to order the 24mm F24-W RMS for this little guy! should be fun!

    IMG_2706.JPG

    IMG_2707.JPG

    IMG_2708.JPG
     
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  9. Feb 14, 2020 #129

    SCooke123

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    Getting closer!!!!
     
  10. Mar 8, 2020 #130

    BSNW

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    OK!! At long last it is complete and ready for flight. I told you that I was going to depart from the card art and I think I did in a major way.

    I would like to give GREAT compliments to John B at Estes for designing a GREAT kit. IMO I think this is the hardest build Estes has in their line-up (I have not done the Black Star Voyager yet). It is a challenge in ways one would not expect. Even though I deviated from the color scheme..and with the boosters...I still say both the original design and "my interpretation" is a fun model rocket. I did purchase another one of these kits and plan to build it totally stock...but will still never dare to put a black powder motor in it :) So here we go! Photos below. Maiden launch will be on a E18-W or an F24-W.

    IMG_2791.JPG

    IMG_2794.JPG
     
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  11. Mar 8, 2020 #131

    BSNW

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    You know what you guys....this blasted kit took so long....I am going to be shameless with posting photos...HA!

    IMG_2795.JPG

    IMG_2796.JPG

    IMG_2797.JPG
     
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  12. Mar 8, 2020 #132

    BSNW

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    I hope this glider.....glides! I really tried to be light with the paint...

    IMG_2798.JPG
     
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  13. Mar 8, 2020 #133

    BSNW

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  14. Mar 8, 2020 #134

    BSNW

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    . You think I am done yet?....HECK NO!....HA HA!

    IMG_2805.JPG

    IMG_2807.JPG
     
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  15. Mar 8, 2020 #135

    BSNW

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    Some final thoughts and a request for help and guidance!

    Even though this kit IS called a shuttle, I dont think it has to necessarily pay homage or have a look that reminds or draws peoples minds to the NASA shuttle. I certainly did, even though it had a unique look. I could not get past the large orange tank. I wanted to take the Estes design and try and make it something that looked totally new and different from the NASA shuttle. I wanted to make it a stretch to think of the NASA shuttle and its "flying brick". This is why I tried to make it something totally different. Just spilling my thoughts here.

    ANYWAY...I need input from all you glider folk. I am a Tripoli high power guy who happens to like models too. I have never flown a glider. I know what the instructions say....There is no way I am going to chuck this thing and see if it will glide in the 1/10th of a second it has after I toss it. I would rather launch it and "give it time" to get its act together (from the altitude) and see if it glides. I need to know if anyone knows if I have to add the clay weight no matter what? OR if the clay is used it "just in case". I built this glider as light as possible and I hope it glides well. I just am looking for input from folks who may know how this things glides and get some experiential input. I will test it if I have to...but man, I dont want to wreck it before I launch it! Any input would be great.

    Thanks all
    Andrew
     
  16. Mar 8, 2020 #136

    kuririn

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    Well, you can do a hand toss at shoulder height before flying it and see if it stalls or nose drops.
    If it stalls it's tail heavy, add clay to the nose.
    If the nose drops add clay to the back end.
    You want a straight neutral glide.
    (Lifting bodies tend to have a steeper glide path than gliders with airfoiled wings).
    OR.....
    you can launch it untested at altitude and have it plummet down and shatter into a million pieces.
    :(
    I may be biased, but I would get the trim right before launching.
    Hand toss in an open area with a forgiving surface, like grass.
    Good luck and have fun.
    PS If you want to keep it from gliding too far away you can put a little weight on one wing tip and have it circle down. Not too much, you want it turning a gentle left or right hand turn, not a death spiral.
     
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  17. Mar 8, 2020 #137

    BSNW

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    Thanks for the information Kuririn- I will toss it....in some tall fluffy grass. I just wanted some input as I have never done rocket gliders before. Should be fun..... :) .
     
  18. Mar 8, 2020 #138

    mbeels

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    That's gorgeous. Beautiful work!
     
  19. Mar 8, 2020 #139

    GlenP

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    The c.g. balance point is a key point in gliding flight, just like for rocket stability. You can't easily swing/string test a glider, you will have to toss it, unless you can rig it up in a wind tunnel suspended at it's balance point in a similar fashion as a swing test. In other glider kits, like the Estes Astron SkyDart II, you should be given a c.g. location, then you make adjustments to the control surfaces to trim. I am not sure if they give you a similar balance point in the instructions for the Shuttle.

    Screen Shot 2020-03-08 at 12.07.33 PM.png

    If your control surfaces are already fixed in place, then you may have to add clay to adjust the c.g. location to fine tune the glide path. If I were to make a very rough eye-ball guess, it might be somewhere in the general area around the "UNITED" decal but I could be totally wrong. Hard to tell, depends on how much the body will contribute to the lift compared to the wing. Anyone with a decent Shuttle glider maybe can balance theirs and give you a better idea?
     
  20. Mar 8, 2020 #140

    kuririn

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    Don't expect any long flat glides with this puppy.
    More like a controlled fall. Steep glide angle.
    Elevons are glued to a preset angle. IIRC there was a jig to set the angle.
    As long as you can trim it so that it stays upright while it falls, I mean glides, that's the best you can hope for.
    Couldn't find my instructions. Nose cone is glued on, don't remember how much weight was added, if any.
     
  21. Mar 8, 2020 #141

    BSNW

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    Hey guys-

    Thanks for all the information! This is cool. I will do my best and post my launch report when I launch it. I sometimes launch with a NAR club that has a lot of folks that do competition. I am sure somebody would help me as well....as I need a lot of help in this area :). In the meantime, I will study the information I get here on TRF. THANKS!

    Thanks
    Andrew
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  22. Mar 8, 2020 #142

    BSNW

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    Thank you very kindly!

    Andrew
     
  23. Mar 8, 2020 #143

    BSNW

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    Parting Shot.....

    Okay, I know a lot of you saw the error on the checker pattern in post #130 and #134. Even though I measured, It came out like it did. I know, "measure twice...cut once". I did not want to lose that decal so it stayed.....and it drove me crazy.

    So the "fix"...pictured below...is the best I can do. Tried to find something that looked "intentional" This...IMO was the better of "two evils". I could not fix it and leave those two photos unaddressed. So here it is...

    Now it is time to "pucker up and launch it" (after I trim the glider with the help of about 100 people :) ) .

    IMG_2809.JPG
     
  24. Mar 8, 2020 #144

    neil_w

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    Still looks gorgeous, can't wait to see flight pics and/or video.
     
  25. Mar 9, 2020 #145

    SCooke123

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    That is an impressive paintjob. I hope you have a very successful flight!
     
  26. Mar 9, 2020 #146

    BSNW

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    Thanks Neil! I hope it can get the glider to do well. Jump Jet told me (in another thread) that he has had some really good flights with it. I made sure the glider was kept light so I am hoping for the best. Now if we can just get a really calm launch day!

    Have a good week.
    Andrew
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  27. Mar 9, 2020 #147

    BSNW

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    Thank you very much for your kind words. I am really hoping this flies well. Either way it is all fun and good times!
    Andrew
     
  28. Mar 9, 2020 #148

    PhlAsh

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    Without the other lower tanks to provide mass and drag, I sense a backflip in your future. Good luck!
     
  29. Mar 9, 2020 #149

    Tobor

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    Awesome paint job!
     
  30. Mar 9, 2020 #150

    BSNW

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    I am sorry but I really disagree. Taking off a few little BT20'S that weigh next to nothing won't do anything. The drag on a rocket like this is not enough to cause a problem. My friend flies clusters on different BP motors and they fly just fine. This is not a high speed-high power rocket. The CG/CP would have to be WAY off for it to flip. I am not worried.
    Andrew
     

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