Estes Shuttle #7248

[bobk99]

Has anyone purchased the latest Estes Shuttle kit? I am interested in the width, depth, and length of the shuttle's fuselage as a possible retro to an RC glider.

 

[MaxQ]

You speaking of this one?
Looks too nice on the shelf to fly it...may get around to that eventually.

There are some build /fly threads herein somewhere.....
That said - wing span is 9 inches with a dihedral of 1 1/2 inches at each wing tip on the TE.

Fuselage is 11.7 inches in length a width of 4 1/2 inches aft.

 

[bobk99]

Very nice ! I understand your reticence on launching the model. Thank you for the dimensions. This sounds like a project for the Winter months ahead. There may be enough space but whether the added weight will effect not only the rocket's flight but also the shuttle's is a potential issue.

 

[Crawf56]

I have also had my eye on this kit, although I am caught up in several other projects at the moment [1/5th scale P-40 Warhawk]

I was able to google/youtube and find info. I was happy to find that the Shuttle is made of balsa with a cardboard inner tube (for alignment/strength). I think is a candidate for RC gliding, but you would have to use micro gear.

 

[bobk99]

Yes, I agree with both points you made. I have a small RC plane (SkySeeker) available since the company went out of business but the hardware would be too heavy for this kit. Do you have a name of the micro gear that you would recommend? I think flying it back to the launch pad after ejection would be awesome !

Apogee sells a kit called North Hawk for $50 that uses a Estes C6-3 motor with altitude of 500 ft. It requires Spektrum micro receiver and transmitter with a 70Ah LiPo battery but it looks like a bear to assemble.

ParkZone sells the micro servos that would be required for a retrofit

 

[Crawf56]

I used a Tactic micro receiver and servo [Tower Hobbies], because I had a Tactic radio. [See my Skydart thread]
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?138800-RC-Conversion-of-Estes-Skydart-II/page2

I believe the Spectrum/Parkzone system is better, but I have not used it.

 

[bobk99]

I agree. Limited internet research does favor Spektrum. A very good site is https://www.electricplanebygordon.com/ultra-micro-radio-control-electronics/
I emailed the owner of this site and he believes modifying the Shuttle for RC is feasible. He isn't sure whether the wingspan as is will provide enough control however.

 

[burkefj]

I don't think it's the wingspan so much as the size of the available control surfaces, you'll need to add/modify I think to get some control, was thinking a central rudder might be a good simple option for directional steering if you don't want to play with elevons. Just be sure the vertical stab area is approx equal to the two side stabs, should be ok.

Frank

 

[bobk99]

Thanks for the tip ! I was contemplating adding rudder control too. The con to this is it adds another servo and more weight. The fuselage of the shuttle should provide additional lift even though it is not an airfoil as long as the I keep it nose up. I will also balance it before flying by adding washers to the nose or aft end. There is a YouTube video where high school kids from University High School in Texas built a large rocket/shuttle model using CAD and flew the shuttle back to launch pad. It was awesome. I got the inspiration after watching it.

 

[burkefj]

I was thinking just use rudder only, but with the microbrick you get two channels for the same weight anyway, but might give you a simpler control setup, direct pushrod from the fuse to a central rudder.

Thanks for the tip ! I was contemplating adding rudder control too. The con to this is it adds another servo and more weight. The fuselage of the shuttle should provide additional lift even though it is not an airfoil as long as the I keep it nose up. I will also balance it before flying by adding washers to the nose or aft end. There is a YouTube video where high school kids from University High School in Texas built a large rocket/shuttle model using CAD and flew the shuttle back to launch pad. It was awesome. I got the inspiration after watching it.

 

[Crawf56]

I was thinking in terms of elevons for the Shuttle, but I like Frank's idea on the rudder control. Perhaps one servo could control both rudders?

Also, HobbyKing has a lot of "third party" receivers and servos. They might be an option.

 

[AfterBurners]

You speaking of this one?
Looks too nice on the shelf to fly it...may get around to that eventually.

There are some build /fly threads herein somewhere.....
That said - wing span is 9 inches with a dihedral of 1 1/2 inches at each wing tip on the TE.

Fuselage is 11.7 inches in length a width of 4 1/2 inches aft.

You know that does look pretty cool!

 

[bobk99]

Rudder only may be enough. In theory on RC planes it is used to control yaw or drift while elevons will bank the plane into a turn. I suppose I could use tape and try out rudder only by throwing the shuttle from an elevated location like bridge or steep hill and see what happens before installing. Thanks for your comments.

 

[bobk99]

The Estes Shuttle is not based on the NASA design since it has two rudders instead of the single rudder NASA design. I wish they has designed it to scale like the real one.

 

[JumpJet]

I would fly it with elevon control only.

John Boren

 

[bobk99]

I'm inclined to agree. The "kiss" approach is often the best.

 

[JumpJet]

I wish they has designed it to scale like the real one.

Like which real one, the Space Shuttle? This model is just a fun to build and fly model that kind of looks like something that could exist in real life but I had NO intentions to be like the NASA Space Shuttle. Maybe one day I'll get to design a NASA Space Shuttle for 24mm motors for Estes.

John Boren

 

[bobk99]

Thanks for taking an interest in this tread and its great to talk to the designer of the shuttle. IMO, I think a scale model of the Space Shuttle and Booster that flies on E or F engines would be a high demand product. And since opinions are free, I would design it so that the shuttle glider could be retrofitted with RC elevon control as an option. There are very few models out there that have RC gliders coupled with a rocket booster. Your Estes Shuttle is a great looking kit.

 

[Woody's Workshop]

Estes Pro Series II Full Stack.
3 boosters off the pad, and single on the shuttle after separation.
Included is the required hardware for guided landing of the shuttle for idiots like me that know nothing about R/C.
Hmmmm...
What would the problems be for Estes putting this out Jump Jet?
Air starts? Number of interested buyers?
It sure would make a nice collectable!!!

 

[bobk99]

Great idea but for the engine on the shuttle. The altitude upon release would have to be limited so that you can see the orientation (direction) the shuttle is relative to the guy at the controls in order to fly it back for a landing.

 

[JumpJet]

What would the problems be for Estes putting this out Jump Jet?

Estes currently doesn't offer ANY cluster models.
Estes doesn't have any electronics for air starts.
It would truly be a collectable since only a handful of people would purchase it.

Now don't get me wrong, I personally think this would be cool but Estes would most likely NEVER get it's tool investment back in such a product. The better way of approaching this would be for the Estes R&D guy to design a Full Stack NASA shuttle in such a way that the end user would be able to easily modify it for cluster and RC flight.

John Boren

John Boren

 

[Crawf56]

Regarding the Estes Shuttle, I had also wondered about REAL boosters, that separate in flight.

Apogee Rockets has a design/kit for this:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-2-Model-Rocket-Kits/Strap-on-Booster-Pods

Apogee calls them Strap-on Booster Pods.

 

[burkefj]

And....Kiss goes out the window

Regarding the Estes Shuttle, I had also wondered about REAL boosters, that separate in flight.

Apogee Rockets has a design/kit for this:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-2-Model-Rocket-Kits/Strap-on-Booster-Pods

Apogee calls them Strap-on Booster Pods.

 

[samb]

Regarding the Estes Shuttle, I had also wondered about REAL boosters, that separate in flight.

Apogee Rockets has a design/kit for this:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket-Kits/Skill-Level-2-Model-Rocket-Kits/Strap-on-Booster-Pods

Apogee calls them Strap-on Booster Pods.

Our friend from the Netherlands had success with a cluster flight: https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?138399-Estes-Shuttle especially post #14. No separation of the boosters though.

 

[bobk99]

To John B:

Elevon control like your Turbine Delta model? I'm not sure how that linkage between the servo and elevon would be executed given the relatively thin wing on the Estes shuttle glider.

 

[AfterBurners]

And....Kiss goes out the window

I think the kit is pretty cool, but I think you could probably scratch build one on your own. I wouldn't pay the money for the kit and when all you really need are the hooks and mounting hardware. Modifying everything else is simple process. This way you can use whatever size boosters you want.

Also I think it would be cool to have a motor in the shuttle as well. Have it time if possible so it separates from the ET at ejection.

 

[bobk99]

Appreciate your comments, being fairly new to model rocketry I think I will choose a simpler design to build from scratch. I would be fearful that my design would be unstable after leaving the launch pad.

Regarding adding a motor to the shuttle, I'm curious how one would be sure that it wouldn't be horizontal when that engine ignites? Again, I'm a newbie so may be missing something obvious to others.

 

[burkefj]

The main problems in doing RC in these tiny models are wing loading and seeing them in the air. I typically fly my models to 500-600' in a 24" wingspan 40" long size and they start to get small and hard to detect orientation much beyond that. Seeing a small rocket fly to 1000 is not hard, but trying to tell if wings are level and if your pitch is flat is hard. An 11" wingspan model over 300' will be pretty hard to tell orientation and do much useful steering till it gets lower. So, having multiple motors and a motor in the shuttle is nice to discuss but not very practical from an actually flying it standpoint if you intend on guiding it yourself. Of course if you have excellent eyesight, that helps. But please don't let me deter the discussion...

 

[bobk99]

My eyesight not the best and I agree with being able to see what orientation the glider is in before trying to steer it back. I think 350 feet may be the ceiling for small gliders.

 

[bobk99]

I watched your video on the Dynasoar launch and RC installation. Seems very straight forward and easier way to get acclimated to RC/rocket hobby than trying to modify a glider kit. I wasn't aware you could perform a roll maneuver with elevator/aileron control. Also, do you know how high the Dynasoar flew ?