Estes price increases for 2022

Onebadhawk
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BigMacDaddy, with the rampant inflation and supply problems we are seeing all over, those prices are dead as the dodo. If you find another source, I'd be interested in seeing it. :)
 
I stocked up on G/H/I motors this fall from launch site vendor (HPR motors I fly most often), so I'm good for 2022 on that front. Can't imagine what they'll cost come 2023, they already cost a small fortune. Doing less LPR going forward, go large or go home is the motto.
 
cwbullet said:
Motors are getting very expnsive.
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The original Enerjet F67 motors were $5.00 in 1971, and would be $34.31 today based on 51 years of inflation. An AeroTech F25W is $30.99 retail, an Enerjet by AeroTech F67 mid range 'F' is about $18.50 each retail. An AeroTech 'G' motor is priced less than the inflation-adjusted Enerjet 'F' retail price.
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Price increases---for EVERYthing---will be an increasing reality. Elder daughter just paid over $9000 for a ten-year-old Hyundai subcompact (Elantra?) with 130K miles. And it was the best buy that could be had for nearly two hours around here. The Nissan dealership wanted to tack $1000 onto the price of a new Versa subcompact, because they could. (Another dealer, can't recall which one, was adding $3500 to their new and very few subcompacts).

But we are engaged in a hobby, which I like to define as a way to spend/waste time and money. The desired product is happiness.

So you're going to spend a couple of bucks more for a pack of BP motors. Don't let that detract from that desired product. Build as much and fly as much as you can afford to, and enjoy what you build and fly. (Me, I still get a kick out of low- and mid-power. It makes up most of what I fly.)

Best -- Terry
 
I always appreciate a warning before price increases. If you tell me and give me one last chance to buy at the old price, it doesn't bother me. 20+% increases (on motors, here, the kits seem to be lower) with no official warning is just a bummer.
 
heada said:
With the price increase on BP motors, has anyone done the comparison for Quest motors? They used to be slightly more expensive but I don't remember by how much. I'm thinking both similar size and similar performance
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The Q-Jet motors in bulk packs have the better price, but still higher prices than BP motors. The ones I have used for the most part outperformed the BP motors.
 
jmasterj said:
I always appreciate a warning before price increases. If you tell me and give me one last chance to buy at the old price, it doesn't bother me. 20+% increases (on motors, here, the kits seem to be lower) with no official warning is just a bummer.
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Check your local hobby lobby or HL online as they’re still selling at 2021 prices for now.
 
I'm willing to bet that prices will also increase for those highly sought after OOP Kits.
Over the last year I've already noticed higher starting prices on some of the one's I keep an eye out for.
I lived through the gas crises in the 70's, and the way things went wild for years after 911.
I wonder what's in store for us next, as the price of food is reaching unobtainable prices for us.
 
jmasterj said:
I got some from Hobby Lobby after Bill S's tip upthread, but they were still more expensive than the ACSupply bulk packs that I would have purchased if I'd known the prices were going up.
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Back on November 26th I noticed that ac supply had changed prices on several different things, so I figured prices across the board were going up soon. Belleville hobby had a banner on their website, in August I believe, about price increases. Besides the A8-3 bulk packs does hobby lobby sell any other type of motor bulk packs?
 
jmasterj said:
I got some from Hobby Lobby after Bill S's tip upthread, but they were still more expensive than the ACSupply bulk packs that I would have purchased if I'd known the prices were going up.
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Yep, I also would have bought some bulk packs from AC Supply a week or two ago, had I known prices were going up. Still HL is cheaper than paying the new price (at least until they raise their prices for the new year).
 
Tigerhawk, I'm aware of Sirius Rocketry; I have bought Quest engines from them at times. But they don't have bulk packs in what I buy, unfortunately.
 
jderimig said:
Prices are not going up, your dollar is just worth less. Conservation of mass applies.
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Well, just like Einstein’s equations, you can run them backwards or forwards. Either your money is worth less or the same amount of money will buy less of the same item. Same thing. BUT, and this is a big but, inflation is not a problem if the prices of goods are going up but you have more dollars available to buy them. Inflation happens when the prices of goods go up (or the same amount money to buy goods buys fewer goods than it used to, however you want to look at it). If your income goes up to match the rate of inflation, it’s all good because your new, higher income gives you the same ability to buy stuff.

That is why people on fixed incomes get cost of living increases.

When inflation increases more than income, your ability to buy stuff goes down. That is bad. The U. S. A. in the 1970’s. Germany in 1919. Zimbabwe in 2009 and 2019.
 
brockrwood said:
Well, just like Einstein’s equations, you can run them backwards or forwards. Either your money is worth less or the same amount of money will buy less of the same item. Same thing. BUT, and this is a big but, inflation is not a problem if the prices of goods are going up but you have more dollars available to buy them. Inflation happens when the prices of goods go up (or the same amount money to buy goods buys fewer goods than it used to, however you want to look at it). If your income goes up to match the rate of inflation, it’s all good because your new, higher income gives you the same ability to buy stuff.

That is why people on fixed incomes get cost of living increases.

When inflation increases more than income, your ability to buy stuff goes down. That is bad. The U. S. A. in the 1970’s. Germany in 1919. Zimbabwe in 2009 and 2019.
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If prices go up 10% and income goes up 10%, and asset values go up 10% then there is 10% inflation. I think you have confused price movement with inflation. If you create $4T out of thin air and pump that into the economy but the economy doesn't produce an additional $4T of goods and services then there is an upward pressure on the price of goods and services to balance the increase in money supply.

When you have a monetary policy that subsidizes demand and a government policy that supresses supply this is exactly what you get. Its not a mystery.s
 
jderimig said:
If prices go up 10% and income goes up 10%, and asset values go up 10% then there is 10% inflation. I think you have confused price movement with inflation. If you create $4T out of thin air and pump that into the economy but the economy doesn't produce an additional $4T of goods and services then there is an upward pressure on the price of goods and services to balance the increase in money supply.

When you have a monetary policy that subsidizes demand and a government policy that supresses supply this is exactly what you get. Its not a mystery.s
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The definition of “inflation” is a decrease in the purchasing power of one unit of currency (or an increase in the price of the stuff you are buying - it takes more units of currency to buy tge same thing). Inflation is not inherently bad as long as everyone gets more units of currency to buy stuff.

Now, the issue of the government printing money and pumping it into circulation when the underlying economy does not produce that money is a separate issue. What the government is doing may cause inflation. It may cause the economy to fail, it may cause people, in the long run, to have a lower purchasing power. But inflation, by itself, just means that prices are going up. It is judgment-neutral. That’s all I am saying.

If everyone gets more units of currency to buy stuff because the economy has grown and incomes have gone up, that is desirable. If, as you imply, everyone has more units of currency to spend simply because the government creates the units of currency out of nothing, by fiat, yes that can be bad. And is scary. The government has to borrow to create those units of currency out of nothing. At some point, the cost to service the government’s debt will be too big for the underlying economy to handle. Then the economy collapses. Example: The economy of Greece in recent years.

And one more thing: What do we mean we say "purchasing power"? Inflation is a measure of the decrease in the "purchasing power" of one unit of currency. Technology has increased our purchasing power over the decades by making the stuff we buy so much more useful and pleasurable, at the same or lower cost, in terns of how much purchasing power it takes to obtain the stuff we want. Technology is increasing the value of the stuff we buy more than inflation is decreasing the value of our money to buy the stuff.

Example: In 1921, if I wanted to listen to recorded music, I needed to buy a Victrola record player and the records to play on it.

The Victrola cost $275. The average annual income in 1921 was $2,939. So, the Victrola cost about 9.4 percent of a person's annual income. About a month's wages. And it sucked. The sound was terrible, it would play only a limited repertoire of music, it was heavy, and it took up a lot of space.

Today, I can walk into Best Buy and buy a smartphone for $99 that plays almost every song ever recorded It is also a radio-phone, and a tiny TV set all in one. Almost all of human knowledge is available by using the smartphone to access the internet. And that is just some of the things the smartphone can do to satisfy my needs and wants. The average annual income in 2021 is $79,900. So the smartphone costs only .00127 percent of the average annual income.

But, more importantly than the percentage of my annual income to buy it, the smartphone is a far more VALUABLE thing to purchase than the 1921 Victrola because it increases a person's quality of life far more than the Victrola ever could. Not only does it cost me less of my available purchasing power, on a percentage basis, to buy it, it is a more VALUABLE object than the 1921 Victrola because it provides far more of an increase in my quality of life.

Technology improvements, especially "breakthrough" improvements, such as microprocessors and high output light emitting diodes, are inflation fighters. Even if the cost of goods goes up, the goods you are getting for more dollars are "worth" more to you than the previous goods you could buy with the same money.
 
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brockrwood said:
The definition of “inflation” is a decrease in the purchasing power of one unit of currency (or an increase in the price of the stuff you are buying - it takes more units of currency to buy tge same thing). Inflation is not inherently bad as long as everyone gets more units of currency to buy stuff.
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What happens to your savings and income from debt instruments (which finances a large share of pension and retirement funds)?
 
jderimig said:
What happens to your savings and income from debt instruments (which finances a large share of pension and retirement funds)?
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My savings and retirement funds are assets. Inflation makes them less valuable unless they are going up in value at a rate higher than the rate of inflation. If you are as old as I am, you might remember the 13 to 16 percent rates paid on certificates of deposit and other investment and savings accounts in the late 1970's. Today, those same investments pay .25 percent. The reason the rates on those investment assets were so high was because inflation was so high. The rates had to be high just to keep pace with inflation.

I am not saying that the government continually raising the debt ceiling and just borrowing and borrowing to hand out money to people is a good thing or a sustainable thing. What happens when the cost to service the government's debt exceeds the ability of the economy to grow and be taxed to make the payments on that debt? Default on the national debt? Unthinkable. That would mean economic collapse in the United States and probably worldwide.

But the key point I am making is that people use the term "inflation" too loosely to mean, "economy getting bad because stuff costs more than it used to and we are all getting poorer". Inflation is a very simple, narrow, monetary concept. It just means that ONE UNIT of currency buys less of the SAME goods and services than it used to. It means that assets that don't go up in monetary value faster than the rate of inflation are losing value. That's it. Inflation is not inherently bad if inflation is balanced out by other factors such as the new goods and services being inherently more useful than they used to be (that is, the goods and services are NOT the same as what they used to be) or that you possess more units of currency to buy the improved goods and services.

Because of the fast rate of technological improvement, the goods you buy today are more valuable than the goods of just a few years ago.

The laptop I am typing on right now cost me $750 at Costco. That is more than the laptop I bought at Costco in 2016 for $650. But my 2021 dollars are worth less than the 2016 dollars, so the real cost to me to purchase this new laptop is about the same. But this new laptop is enormously better in every way - speed, screen quality, data storage space, weight, etc. The value of this laptop to me is far greater than the value of the 2016 laptop was to me. The 2021 laptop improves my quality of life more than the 2016 laptop did - for about the same amount of my purchasing power. The improvement in technology has improved my quality of life more than inflation has decreased my quality of life. I win.
 
OK, one last thing about inflation. Hyper-inflation, or excessive inflation, while it is not bad by definition, is a sign that there is something wrong in the underlying economy. That is why the central banks of most counties worry about inflation when it exceeds about 2 percent. So the central banks (for example, the USA’s Federal Reserve System) raise the baseline interest rate to borrow money. That cools off the economy, cools off demand, and that should lower prices, and thus lower the rate of inflation. It seems like treating the symptoms to treat the disease, but it seems to work.
 
brockrwood said:
But the key point I am making is that people use the term "inflation" too loosely to mean, "economy getting bad because stuff costs more than it used to and we are all getting poorer".
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Some people do. ....

A little inflation is good, much preferable to a little deflation. Generally inflation isn't measured against simply the price of highly functional goods, like cars and computers. It is adjusted for that. Generally inflation is measured against commodities or durable goods like rent, energy, and medicine. Conveniently the cost of higher education is not included in the CPI.

But the history of the last 2 or 3 decades is that median wages have not kept up with the cost of food, energy, housing and medicine. That is an economic fact, you can find that data on FRED. So has the median wage earner in the US gotten poorer over the last 30 years or not?
 

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