Estes Magician...

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McKailas Dad

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Only found 2 people here with one. Decent bird? Seems really light, 100 grams for a BT-55 x 33.5" tall rocket? They reccomend a D12-5 for first flight, and an E9-6. Thats gotta boogy! They claim 1600'...

Does nobody have one here because its a 'new' model, or has it got issues? (Or is it because you don't want to admit to owning an Estes :p)

Anybody stuff a AT 24-40 RMS in one, or would that be a bad idea...:dark: (I'm thinking some tube from Wildman to fatten it up a bit, maybe some TTW ply fins...:confused2:)

Thanks,

P.S., I didn't find anything on EMRR about it either...
 

dragon_rider10

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Don't have one yet, but not for any of the above reasons. I think it looks like a pretty cool looking rocket.
 

o1d_dude

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[EDIT] NOTE: The following information refers to the PHOENIX BIRD and not the MAGICIAN! I'm old and easily confused. :eek: [/EDIT]

I have one of the new ones and there are issues with the instructions.

1. Don't follow the instructions on assembling the motor mount as the measurements are incorrect. You will need to determine the correct measurements yourself as this bird has TTW fins.

2. The instructions may also lead you to believe you should mount the fins before inserting the motor mount. With TTW fins, you're gonna have a problem if you try it to do it that way.

I caught #2 right away but didn't catch #1 until I'd already assembled the motor mount but before I glued it into the body tube. Estes was kind enough to send me a new kit when I pointed out the error, so I just used the motor mount from that one. I'd have settled for a motor mount from one of their parts assortments.

It looks like the instructions were from the original kit and weren't properly updated to accomodate the TTW fins.

I haven't flown it yet (fire season here in Cali) but 1600 feet on BP is pretty high. OTOH, maybe an E18 or E28 might be interesting...
 
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Donaldsrockets

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Mine must have been one of the very first ones produced as it did not have TTW fins.

There were no issues with the instructions or construction with my kit. Everything went together exactly as intended.

One reason why quite a few people here don't have one is that it flies so high and they don't have a field large enough to launch a rocket like this. However, you could make an 18mm adaptor out of a spent 24mm C11 or D12 motor but be sure to use the included orange spacer in this instance.

I'm sure this rocket would fly more than adequately on a B6-4 or C6-5. Also, a 24mm C11-5 would work great too if you either have any or find someone willing to part with one as they went OOP a few years ago.;)
 
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Handeman

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I don't have the Magician, but I had a Stormcaster. The Stormcaster is lighter, 80g but larger diameter, 1.64" vs 1.33".

I routinely flew the Stormcaster on composite motors. The only thing I did extra was thinned wood glue and printer paper on the fins. It flew on F39T and F24W motors all the time. The only damage was from and Estes dent.

I made the mistake of putting it into orbit on an partly cloudy day on a F24W. It went up, was lost among the clear sky and clouds, and was never seen or heard from again.

I figure it has to be in orbit, right? That's my excuse an I'm sticking to it! :D



Other then paper coating the fins, I doubt you need to do anything extra to the Magician so it will handle the biggest Aerotech 24mm composite motors. It might be a slightly different issue with the Pro24 6g G motors. Then again, I suspect it will handle the up part just fine, it's the landings with the heavier motors that will probably be an issue.
 

McKailas Dad

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I thought it was pretty sweet lookin, myself. This would be my first 24mm powered rocket. I've looked at others that are either boring or to much $$$. (although I am ordering the Executioner:dark:) This looks like a good bang for the buck. Besides, I kinda like having something that not everybody has already got. :rolleyes:

o1d dude said:
..... as this bird has TTW fins.
You sure about that? Doesn't seem to be, but I don't have one in front of me...:confused2:

Donaldsrockets said:
One reason why quite a few people here don't have one is that it flies so high and they don't have a field large enough to launch a rocket like this.
I do have a large enough field to launch it in, it's the recovery I'm worried about :roll:

Handeman said:
...so it will handle the biggest Aerotech 24mm composite motors.
So, you don't think it would make the Magician disappear? :p Sorry, couldn't resist...

magician.JPG
 

DAllen

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Only found 2 people here with one. Decent bird? Seems really light, 100 grams for a BT-55 x 33.5" tall rocket? They reccomend a D12-5 for first flight, and an E9-6. Thats gotta boogy! They claim 1600'...

Does nobody have one here because its a 'new' model, or has it got issues? (Or is it because you don't want to admit to owning an Estes :p)

Anybody stuff a AT 24-40 RMS in one, or would that be a bad idea...:dark: (I'm thinking some tube from Wildman to fatten it up a bit, maybe some TTW ply fins...:confused2:)

Thanks,

P.S., I didn't find anything on EMRR about it either...
I really don't think extra reinforcement is needed unless it's going to go supersonic and if you are going to do that you can kiss it bye bye fo' sho'. Just make sure you've got good uniform fillets and sand all the surfaces coming in contact with the glue. You know, good building practices. ;)

-Dave
 

hcmbanjo

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Estes has since added a yellow paper addendum to the Magician kits about the engine mount and TTW fin problem.

Those Magician fins sure remind me of the old Cherokee D!
 

o1d_dude

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Mine must have been one of the very first ones produced as it did not have TTW fins.

There were no issues with the instructions or construction with my kit. Everything went together exactly as intended.
Right you are. In my geezerly old age, I misspoke with respect to the Magician.

It was the PHOENIX BIRD that had the problem with the motor mount and TTW fins.

Next time I get up on my hind legs and offer "facts", I will double check my source. If it's me, I will view it as suspect and disregard.

The Magician is on my workbench in the build cue...behind the partially assembled Phoenix Bird.
 

McKailas Dad

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o1d dude said:
...this bird has TTW fins.
Donaldsrockets said:
...as it did not have TTW fins.
hcmbanjo said:
...to the Magician kits about the engine mount and TTW fin problem.
It does, then it doesn't, then it does again? Well which is it man?!

O1d dude, bust that thing open and check for me, would ya? Seems people, including me, are confused...:confused:

The Estes catalog doesn't specify, either. What others, other than the Executioner, are TTW? I figure that would be an ideal (strong) setup for MPR/RMS, right?
 

Donaldsrockets

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Hopefully this will clear up any confusion.:)

Note the parts in the bag are just the centering rings, thrust ring, motor hook, shock cord and parachute.

Magician parts.jpg
 

o1d_dude

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Donald is 100 percent correct. The Magician has "stick'um on the tube" fins rather than the TTW fins of the Phoenix Bird.

Sorry for the confusion (on my part). I have both kits.

@Chris: Yes, they sure do *look* like Cherokee D-fins. Didn't check the size so no opinion offered. See? I learned my lesson.
 

berlinetta

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I don't have one yet, but I am looking to get one soon. I will also be getting the old Magician as well. My father has that sitting in the basement of his house. It hasn't flown in years.
 

McKailas Dad

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dragon_rider10 said:
Donald, what are those components under the fins in the balsa?
I understand they are a fin alignment tool, pretty slick. Anyone actually use those, are they accurate? I think I'll go with the lines on paper (wrap) for my alignment. I use calculator paper, super thin, and strong enough to stretch for a tight wrap. I was using my computer to make wraps, but I found it easier to draw, and a sharper line with a mechanical pencil.

Sorry, I guess I hijacked my own thread! :rolleyes:
 

JRThro

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That is a fin jig to aid in aligning the fins.

It works perfectly for this and I would definitely recommend saving it as it will work for any 3 finned BT-55 sized rocket.;)
Now *that* is a great thing to include in the kit!

Do any of the other new or "classics" kits include this jig?

If not, I wonder what the cost adder would be to include it.
 

GlennW

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Also be aware that Estes did produce another rocket in the 80's or 90's with the name Magician. It was smaller than this one. Don't have a pic handy but I have seen it on ebay every now and then, that's the only reason I know about it.

Glenn
 

JRThro

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Hopefully this will clear up any confusion.:)

Note the parts in the bag are just the centering rings, thrust ring, motor hook, shock cord and parachute.
Donald, what thickness is the balsa? 1/8"?
 

cjl

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You should never need to strengthen the tube or motor mount in an Estes rocket to fly it on composites. The only thing I've had shred on some Estes rockets before was the fins, and if you'll be exceeding 600mph or so, I'd recommend strengthening the fins (you can laminate them with paper or thin fiberglass). Other than that, it should be good to go, even on such motors as the F39 (though you may never see it again if you go that route :D).
 

Handeman

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You should never need to strengthen the tube or motor mount in an Estes rocket to fly it on composites. The only thing I've had shred on some Estes rockets before was the fins, and if you'll be exceeding 600mph or so, I'd recommend strengthening the fins (you can laminate them with paper or thin fiberglass). Other than that, it should be good to go, even on such motors as the F39 (though you may never see it again if you go that route :D).
I agree with cjl. I paper laminated the fins on my Estes Stormcaster and flew it on F39T, F24W and most of the composite E motors. The only damage was an Estes dent on it's first flight. I just straightened that out with my thumb and hit it with some more paint. It held up and flew great, until it went up on a F24W and never came down.:(

Sorry, no launch pics, it was way to fast for me to catch.
 

cjl

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Hopefully this will clear up any confusion.:)

Note the parts in the bag are just the centering rings, thrust ring, motor hook, shock cord and parachute.
That's interesting...

Which edge is the root edge on those fins?
 

cjl

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The longest straight edge is the root edge.

Some say they are the old Estes Cherokee fins.;)
OK, that makes sense then. For some reason, I was visualizing them in a different orientation, which would make the grain direction botched.
 

RoyAtl

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Only found 2 people here with one. Decent bird? Seems really light, 100 grams for a BT-55 x 33.5" tall rocket? They reccomend a D12-5 for first flight, and an E9-6. Thats gotta boogy! They claim 1600'...

Does nobody have one here because its a 'new' model, or has it got issues? (Or is it because you don't want to admit to owning an Estes :p)

Anybody stuff a AT 24-40 RMS in one, or would that be a bad idea...:dark: (I'm thinking some tube from Wildman to fatten it up a bit, maybe some TTW ply fins...:confused2:)

Thanks,

P.S., I didn't find anything on EMRR about it either...

Looks good. It's essentially the old Estes Cherokee D with extended body and small payload section. If you've got enough space and good enough eyes you can put a 24-40 or 24-60(!) in it and see what it can do.
 

The Dude

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I happen to be building one of these at the moment, and I figured I'd snap a few pics to share before paint.
I understand they are a fin alignment tool, pretty slick. Anyone actually use those, are they accurate? I think I'll go with the lines on paper (wrap) for my alignment. I use calculator paper, super thin, and strong enough to stretch for a tight wrap. I was using my computer to make wraps, but I found it easier to draw, and a sharper line with a mechanical pencil.
It looks as if I 86'ed the instructions already, but I used the standard paper wrap from the instructions in addition to the fin alignment tool. I would say it's accurate (see picture), but IMO, I wouldn't rely on it completely.
DSC03374.JPGDSC03377.JPG
Here's the lower body section and close up of fin size/shape/grain.
DSC03372.JPGDSC03373.JPG

I don't have one yet, but I am looking to get one soon. I will also be getting the old Magician as well. My father has that sitting in the basement of his house. It hasn't flown in years.
Also be aware that Estes did produce another rocket in the 80's or 90's with the name Magician. It was smaller than this one. Don't have a pic handy but I have seen it on ebay every now and then, that's the only reason I know about it.
Not meaning to hijack this thread on the old Magician, but I also had one of those back in the day...when I rescued my childhood fleet from my parent's basement that one was missing :(. I'm rebuilding it, but this time in Meteor form (same rocket, but 18mm instead of 24mm) since it's more friendly to small fields (that, and decals exist on YORP).
The old Magician:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes86/86est34.html
The Meteor:
http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/catalogs/estes91/91est14.html
 

qquake2k

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It does, then it doesn't, then it does again? Well which is it man?!

O1d dude, bust that thing open and check for me, would ya? Seems people, including me, are confused...:confused:

The Estes catalog doesn't specify, either. What others, other than the Executioner, are TTW? I figure that would be an ideal (strong) setup for MPR/RMS, right?
The Stormcaster has TTW fins, and it's only $11 at Hobbylinc. The Magician is $13, I ordered one last week, but haven't received it yet.

http://www.estesrockets.com/assets/instructions/001301_STORMCASTER.pdf
 

Handeman

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The Stormcaster has TTW fins, and it's only $11 at Hobbylinc. The Magician is $13, I ordered one last week, but haven't received it yet.

http://www.estesrockets.com/assets/instructions/001301_STORMCASTER.pdf
I papered the fins on my Stormcaster, although I'm not sure I really needed to. It flew great on all the 24/40 E & F motors.

I would suggest a longer shock cord with the more energetic ejection charges in the composite motors. I had mine break on me. The body fell flat without damage and I was fortunate to get the nose cone and chute back.

One of my favorite rockets. I'll be getting another one, lost the last one on a F24W.
 

o1d_dude

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The Stormcaster has TTW fins, and it's only $11 at Hobbylinc. The Magician is $13, I ordered one last week, but haven't received it yet.

http://www.estesrockets.com/assets/instructions/001301_STORMCASTER.pdf
The Stormcaster is one of my all time favorites. I could fly that bad boy all day long and never tire of it.

My Cherokee-D is at the point of needing to fly before I decal it and the Magician is still scattered across the workbench. In the meantime, I've been playing around with my first papered fins...there's a learning curve there.
 
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