Estes made Black Powder

[Curtis Enlow]

The opposite of socialism is what? Democracy? Not this time.

You're right: The opposite of socialism is NOT democracy, because they are two different things.

Capitalism, socialism and communism are economic systems. Democratic republics, absolute monarchies, constitutional monarchies, military or single-party dictatorships are political systems. They are different systems that can be combined in different ways.

Single party Communism is an economic and political system where the means of production, distribution, and exchange are exclusively owned and controlled by the state.

Democratic socialism is an economic system with a capitalist economic system that is highly regulated by elected officials or the community as a whole.

Fascism, on the other hand, is a political ideology that emphasizes authoritarianism partnered closely with capitalism, nationalism, and the supremacy of the Party (single, of course) & state over individual rights and freedoms. Fascists believe in a hierarchical society, with a strong leader who has absolute power and control over all aspects of society. Fascism is often associated with extreme right-wing politics and the use of violence and oppression to maintain power.

The opposite of democracy is more nearly fascism.

 

[cls]

Some updated/corrected information concerning Estes.

Estes sales/revenue for 2022 was $5.4 million.

Source: https://www.zippia.com/estes-rockets-careers-1108436/revenue/

This $5.4M seems low to me. The link doesn't show how they came up with the number.

 

[Lord Rory Gin]

This $5.4M seems low to me. The link doesn't show how they came up with the number.

How about $7.672M? Even that sounds low to me even for a 2021 stat.

Estes Rockets - 7459000 Revenue | Kona Equity

Discover Estes Rockets (estesrockets.com) located in Penrose, CO, profitability and growth compared to their industry and so much more.

www.konaequity.com

 

[SolarYellow]

...

 

[brockrwood]

While I have made gunpowder with natural materials, Amazon is better! Natural saltpeter has a lot of crap in it... Root killer does not.

Natural saltpeter has a lot of “crap” in it.

Literally!

I thought saltpeter was that crusty, white stuff that forms on the top of dried up manure piles?

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Natural saltpeter has a lot of “crap” in it.

Literally!

I thought saltpeter was that crusty, white stuff that forms on the top of dried up manure piles?

I thought saltpeter was the solids that precipitate out of a jug of piss.

 

[Cape Byron]

I thought saltpeter was the solids that precipitate out of a jug of piss.

"It's salt, Peter."

 

[Initiator001]

This $5.4M seems low to me. The link doesn't show how they came up with the number.

My source for this information is a hobby rocketry 'insider' who I can trust.
Sometimes a 'source' does not want to directly present information so they steer you towards a public source which has the same information.

'Seems low' based on what? I speak regularly with multiple sources in the hobby rocket industry and all agree that Estes sales have been declining year-over-year for the past 5-6 years.

 

[prfesser]

Natural saltpeter has a lot of “crap” in it.

Literally!

I thought saltpeter was that crusty, white stuff that forms on the top of dried up manure piles?

I thought saltpeter was the solids that precipitate out of a jug of piss.

Actually...yes to both, after a fashion.

About 30 years ago a well-known pyrotechnics guru attended some sort of medieval festival. He made BP there in the old-fashioned way, cooking a mixture of manure and urine and I-don't-know-what, to get saltpeter. Apparently the BP worked quite well.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Actually...yes to both, after a fashion.

About 30 years ago a well-known pyrotechnics guru attended some sort of medieval festival. He made BP there in the old-fashioned way, cooking a mixture of manure and urine and I-don't-know-what, to get saltpeter. Apparently the BP worked quite well.

I read a little bit about it last night. It seems like historically there were a few sources of potassium nitrate. There were mineral deposits, it could be mined out of bat guano caves, and it could be manufactured from excrement of all kinds. No matter what the source of the nitrate compounds, it helped boost the purity if you boiled it with wood ash, which contains potassium, to convert things like calcium nitrate to potassium nitrate AKA nitrate of potassium AKA nitrate of potash AKA nitre of pot ash. So that’s probably what the pryo guru was doing at the medieval festival — boiling with wood ash.

So the shitpile method was to compost manure and other excrement and urine with something like straw to keep it aerated, and let the microorganisms convert as many of the nitrogen compounds as possible to nitrates. It could be in compost piles, or it could be in really huge open fields devoted to “nitre” production.

Either way, they would start with the manure in a pile or nitre field and then keep feeding it excrement and urine to build up the amount of nitrate. In some cases, like the field method, the nitrate would concentrate to the point it would appear on the surface as the white crystal “efflorescence “, and they would scrape that off to harvest it and dissolve it in water. Or in smaller piles, they might just use water to dissolve the nitrate right out of the contents of the pile. Then they would mix the concentrated nitrate liquid with ash and boil it to boost the potassium nitrate proportion.

So my first thought on this when reading it was ick, dats nasty. It doesn’t sound like a nice job. But it sounds like it was really a big industry. In the Civil War, the South was starved for potassium nitrate and stepped up production in nitre fields. There were even campaigns to save chamber pot contents for nitre production.

Fast forward to modern times, and we might resent the government using our tax dollars to subsidize black powder production, but at least they aren’t asking us to save our poo-poo and pee-pee. Ewwwww.

 

[Curtis Enlow]

So the shitpile method was to compost manure and other excrement and urine with something like straw to keep it aerated, and let the microorganisms convert as many of the nitrogen compounds as possible to nitrates. It could be in compost piles, or it could be in really huge open fields devoted to “nitre” production.

I keep picturing poor peasants stomping in manure ponds up to their knees to aerate nitre all day long. I wonder if that wasn't the inspiration for Monty Python's 'Constitutional Peasants' scene...?

 

[cls]

My source for this information is a hobby rocketry 'insider' who I can trust.

Thanks, Bob.

Seemed low to me, because my ignorant SWAG would be 3x more.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

I keep picturing poor peasants stomping in manure ponds up to their knees to aerate nitre all day long. I wonder if that wasn't the inspiration for Monty Python's 'Constitutional Peasants' scene...?

Not far off. One source talking about nitre field production for the Civil War mentioned advertisements seeking slaves to work the nitre fields.

 

[brockrwood]

I keep picturing poor peasants stomping in manure ponds up to their knees to aerate nitre all day long. I wonder if that wasn't the inspiration for Monty Python's 'Constitutional Peasants' scene...?

 

[tsmith1315]

“Dennis! There’s some lovely filth down here!”

One of my my favorite lines.

 

[brockrwood]

You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!

 

[brockrwood]

"That's how Kirk did it, that's how the Federation does it...and it's worked out pretty well so far."

“No, I won’t kill him! You’ll have to get your entertainment some place else!”

 

[ed_w]

“No, I won’t kill him! You’ll have to get your entertainment some place else!”

Very odd that the above Star Trek Kirk video shows up as "age-restricted".

 

[brockrwood]

Very odd that the above Star Trek Kirk video shows up as "age-restricted".

You have to be old enough to have seen the show when it was first broadcast.

 

[ed_w]

Very odd that the above Star Trek Kirk video shows up as "age-restricted".

The "Learn More" link shows that You Tube thinks Kirk's making of an explosive might be dangerous for children to see. That's not as easy as Star Trek made it look, and even then it wasn't all that easy for Kirk. I wonder if You Tube thinks a video showing kids riding bikes without helmets would be age-restricted as well.

 

[brockrwood]

The "Learn More" link shows that You Tube thinks Kirk's making of an explosive might be dangerous for children to see. That's not as easy as Star Trek made it look, and even then it wasn't all that easy for Kirk. I wonder if You Tube thinks a video showing kids riding bikes without helmets would be age-restricted as well.

Seriously? Kirk making an impossible cannon out of a hollow log is dangerous for kids to see? Prime time TV of the late 1960’s seems like a Rankin Bass special compared to the graphic prime time TV of today.

Kirk spares the Gorn captain’s life. He shows mercy and compassion. Shouldn’t kids see that?

 

[tsmith1315]

Seriously? Kirk making an impossible cannon out of a hollow log is dangerous for kids to see?

You mean that wasn't a documentary?

 

[brockrwood]

You mean that wasn't a documentary?

One of my favorite episodes from the “Junkyard Wars” TV show of the late 1990’s and early 2000’s was the “cannon” episode. The contestants had to make a cannon out of the stuff they could find in a metal scrapheap.

One team made a working cannon. The other team failed.

Hint: KISS (keep it simple, stupid) won the day. Fancy lost.

 

[mr. bob]

Some updated/corrected information concerning Estes.

Estes sales/revenue for 2022 was $5.4 million.

Source: https://www.zippia.com/estes-rockets-careers-1108436/revenue/

Estes sales have been dropping year-over-year since the Hobbico sale.

Estes does not sell directly to retailers/dealers. Estes sells to distributors who then sell to dealers/retailers. Estes discount to distributors averages around 55% off of MSRP.

More like 60% off for distributors Horizon is 65% probably HL also. And Mfg has to pay the shipping cost. So out od that $10 rocket Estes makes $3.20 to $3.70 after the shipping fees.

 

[Andrew Rose]

Maybe, but probably not consumer grade. I was in South Carolina last year, hit up 4 different VERY large fireworks stores.......not one single retail item in any of the stores was made in USA. Shocker, everything had 'Made in China' printed on them.

Based on what I've seen with Civil War re-enactments and black powder hunting season sales when I ran a gun shop (and my own usage in hunting vs. rocketry), I'd be willing to bet that black powder rocket motors are the 'blip' in overall domestic usage of black powder.

I would suggest if you are looking for Estes motors in South Carolina, there is a Hobby Lobby just outside the launch area in Sumter. Fireworks being legal in South Carolina, most only cater to fireworks alone. I would suggest googling a local gun store. If in the Charleston area, Allied Arms would be a great start, or Palmetto State Armory which has multiple locations and usually have many types of black powder on the shelf.

 

[Powderman]

Skimming through the responses on here it appears as though everyone GROSSLY overestimates the blackpowder market entirely...rockets and muzzleloaders combined. I haven't heard anyone mention that muzzleloaders also shoot Pyrodex and Triple Seven. There's even a newer powder called Blackhorn209 that is quite popular with inline rifles. A pie that isn't very big starts getting cut into many slices.

 

[techrat]

One of my favorite episodes from the “Junkyard Wars”

Junkyard Wars was one of the best TV shows of all time. Loved watching them fabricate things, even though we all knew the junkyard was "seeded" with the needed materials for that episode...

 

[Peartree]

Fast forward to modern times, and we might resent the government using our tax dollars to subsidize black powder production, but at least they aren’t asking us to save our poo-poo and pee-pee. Ewwwww.

They wouldn't even have to ask because we have indoor plumbing. They'd just cut a deal with the waste processors and septic tank cleaners.

 

[shockie]

Wall Street and the MBAs exported manufacturing a long time ago, starting nearly 50 years ago. Kinda late to notice only now.

Don't forget all the politicians we ALL voted for over the past 50 years. AND still vote for.

 

[brockrwood]

Junkyard Wars was one of the best TV shows of all time. Loved watching them fabricate things, even though we all knew the junkyard was "seeded" with the needed materials for that episode...

Seeded. And all power tools, hand tools, fasteners, et cetera, were provided so that each team had a pretty well-stocked work space to fashion things. In the episode I reference, the winning team made a cannon ball by cutting an iron ball off of an old piece of iron fence or something. Then they power sanded it to a nice sphere of rhe right size. The cutting and sanding required some nice power tools.

Still the gist of Junkyard Wars remained intact. Be creative and re-use machines and parts that were created for one purpose for a different purpose. That’s the essence of ingenuity and a “can-do” culture. That is something our society had lost but is slowly getting back with the emergence of the “maker” movement.

Case in point: The members of this forum who find a common household item and somehow make it into a useful piece of rocket gear, such as using a stainless steel rice bowl from a thrift store as a blast deflector. Or designing amd selling a gizmo that turns an old camera tripod into a model rocket launch pad.