Estes igniters

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If you want to play around with old school “just nichrome wire” igniters, you can get a big old spool of the stuff on Amazon for less than $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Nichrome-80-...1656114038&sprefix=28g+nichrome,aps,97&sr=8-3
The 28 gauge or 32 gauge stuff should work. You can try both.

The classic method is to cut off an appropriate length of the wire and then make a tiny loop in the middle of the wire using the tip of a pencil.

Insert the loop into the rocket engine as far as it will go.

Put a “spitball” sized wad of recovery wadding into the engine nozzle and push that in as far as it will go.

Finally, cover the nozzle of the engine with a piece of masking tape to hold everything in place.

Use a battery with lots of current such as a 12 volt lantern battery or sealed lead acid battery.

Now you are launching like the rocketeers of old!

See the ancient Estes Technical Report 6 (TR6) for instructions on how to make the DIY igniter out of nichrome wire.

https://plans.rocketshoppe.com/pubs/Estes/estTR-6/1963_Estes_TR-6.pdf
 
Which begs the question, "How is it the largest BP motor manufacturer in the world can't make the best BP igniters (initiators, sparky doobies) to use with their own motors?"

I know there are shipping issues with pyrogens, but seriously. This seems like a real issue for a lot of flyers using their products.
 
cwbullet said:
Two other ingredients: Less than 5% Camphor, and Less than 5% 1-methoxy-2-propanol acetate. I do know that 1-methoxy-2-propanol acetate biodegrades in about 30 days. Camphor readily begins evaporating at -40 C. I guess you end up with about 95% nitrocellulose.
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With respect, camphor alone is the stabilizer and solubilizer for NC in going-extinct NC ping-pong balls. Makes up almost 50% of mass. Remains solid in that state and does not evaporate. If you stab an NC ping-pong ball, you will get a whiff of camphor.

Importantly, one NC is not necessarily the same as another NC. It all depends on nitration status, and this can vary greatly. The NC in guitar lacquer (or NC laquers sold by fireworking outfits) for example probably tops out at 12% nitration (nitrogen content by mass), whereas the NC in smokeless powders are typically around 13.5% nitration status. They behave entirely differently. Whether it's fingernail polish or guitar lacquer, the NC is going to be only moderate nitration status.
 
Cape Byron said:
Which begs the question, "How is it the largest BP motor manufacturer in the world can't make the best BP igniters (initiators, sparky doobies) to use with their own motors?"

I know there are shipping issues with pyrogens, but seriously. This seems like a real issue for a lot of flyers using their products.
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@Mike Haberer

A rocketeer at a recent local park launch said that his solution to igniter pyrogen problems is to use a 12 volt, sealed lead acid battery in his launch controller. I started using that type of battery for all of my launches, cluster and single engine. It just makes the nichrome bridge wire in the igniter get white hot, regardless of the pyrogen substance on the igniter. I get fast, reliable ignition pretty much each time since I switched to rhe 12V, high current system.

In amperes we trust.
 
SharkWhisperer said:
With respect, camphor alone is the stabilizer and solubilizer for NC in going-extinct NC ping-pong balls. Makes up almost 50% of mass. Remains solid in that state and does not evaporate. If you stab an NC ping-pong ball, you will get a whiff of camphor.

Importantly, one NC is not necessarily the same as another NC. It all depends on nitration status, and this can vary greatly. The NC in guitar lacquer (or NC laquers sold by fireworking outfits) for example probably tops out at 12% nitration (nitrogen content by mass), whereas the NC in smokeless powders are typically around 13.5% nitration status. They behave entirely differently. Whether it's fingernail polish or guitar lacquer, the NC is going to be only moderate nitration status.
Click to expand...

Probably correct, both no matter because NC from guitar resin and smokes power both burn and will light a motor. Well proven in practice by me.
 
Estes igniters are what made me give up Rocketry as a kid, couldn't afford the short lived batteries and the igniters themselves sometimes failed to work. I'll use them at any Club or official Launch as I follow all rules , but not for local launches.
 
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PDawg said:
Estes igniters are what made me give up Rocketry as a kid
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Same here. Sure, I got older and had interests in other things, but the failure of my Estes igniters was the single biggest reason I left the hobby.

And when I resumed as a BAR, I had the same problems. Only this time I had a few decades of life experience to help me figure out what was going wrong. I still don't know for sure what the issue was, but all I know is that by pulling apart the 2 wires right under the pyrogen and making sure the plastic plug splits these two wires when inserted, the ignition problems disappeared.

Huh, fancy how NO ONE TOLD ME TO DO THIS. Oh well, joke's on Estes for all that lost business.
 
mh9162013 said:
Same here. Sure, I got older and had interests in other things, but the failure of my Estes igniters was the single biggest reason I left the hobby.

And when I resumed as a BAR, I had the same problems. Only this time I had a few decades of life experience to help me figure out what was going wrong. I still don't know for sure what the issue was, but all I know is that by pulling apart the 2 wires right under the pyrogen and making sure the plastic plug splits these two wires when inserted, the ignition problems disappeared.

Huh, fancy how NO ONE TOLD ME TO DO THIS. Oh well, joke's on Estes for all that lost business.
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The old Estes “Astron” igniters I first used in the mid-70’s as a middle schooler were pretty unreliable.

(I kind of liked Centuri’s old igniters from that period.)

When the Estes “Solar” igniters came out, I had a lot fewer ignition problems.

When Estes introduced the little plastic engine nozzle plugs in the 90’s, that made it even better. I get pretty good reliability using the current generation of Estes igniters and the little plastic plugs.

Such a simple thing: A little plastic plug to hold everything in place. But it makes a world of difference.
 
brockrwood said:
When Estes introduced the little plastic engine nozzle plugs in the 90’s, that made it even better.
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That's when I first got into model rockets...1994, I think?

I was so frustrated b/c when I would try the igniter when it wasn't installed in an engine, it would light up just fine.
 
mh9162013 said:
I still don't know for sure what the issue was, but all I know is that by pulling apart the 2 wires right under the pyrogen and making sure the plastic plug splits these two wires when inserted, the ignition problems disappeared.
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The little piece of paper tape that ensures that the two lead wires stay separated helps a lot. Simple things can make the difference between fun and frustration.
 
mh9162013 said:
That's when I first got into model rockets...1994, I think?

I was so frustrated b/c when I would try the igniter when it wasn't installed in an engine, it would light up just fine.
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Just trial and error helps a lot too. I find that when I push the two (separated) wires down into the nozzle, hold it there against the propellant, bend the wires at a right angle, and then immediately put the plug in, things usually go well.
 
brockrwood said:
Just trial and error helps a lot too. I find that when I push the two (separated) wires down into the nozzle, hold it there against the propellant, bend the wires at a right angle, and then immediately put the plug in, things usually go well.
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Yeah, doing that resulted in failure more than half the time.
 
mh9162013 said:
If it was so simple, why didn't Estes or anyone else tell me, then? (rhetorical question)
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Estes should send a rep to a hobby shop in each state and put on a clinic for the customers: Tips and Tricks for installing igniters.

As I have mentioned in other posts, just having a 12 volt, sealed lead acid battery as your current source solves a lot of ignition problems. You don’t have to worry about the pyrogen igniting if the nichrome bridge wire gets white hot. I doubt that even the lead wires in the nozzle touching matters if you supply enough current.

With the standard launch controller (6V from 4 “AA” batteries), you can only supply about 1 amp, maybe 2, to the igniter. That will set off the engine if you have no other issues and fresh, alkaline batteries, and the pyrogen on the igniter catches fire. Too marginal. I like my homemade 12V system.
 
brockrwood said:
With the standard launch controller (6V from 4 “AA” batteries), you can only supply about 1 amp, maybe 2, to the igniter. That will set off the engine if you have no other issues and fresh, alkaline batteries, and the pyrogen on the igniter catches fire. Too marginal. I like my homemade 12V system.
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My struggles had nothing to do with power, though. Giving more volts (or amps) probably wouldn't have made a difference.
 
In the 1960s it was hard for young kids with not much money to get reliable portable battery systems but we somehow managed. We also used car batteries whenever we could. I don't recall having igniter problems back then and at various points over the past 30 years I haven't either except for about 2 times using the cornstarch igniters. I push the igniter in until it touches the propellant grain, hold it while I push the plug in, and go. In the old days I did a lot of igniters with the little wads of tissue pushed in to hold them and those worked well too.
 
Estes igniters are very reliable. I generally run a 98 to 99 percent success rate with them. I use the old school "spitball" method of igniter retention, along with a piece of masking tape over the nozzle for strain relief. The size of the "spitball" is key, it must fit fully inside the nozzle, but also not be loose. I use tweezers to install the spitball, taking care to get it in between the wire leads to stop them from shorting out. When Estes came out with the plastic igniter plugs, I tried them and found that they reduced ignition reliability significantly compared to a well installed ball of wadding, so now I just throw them out along with the packaging. The other issue is that Estes GSE is complete crap. Using a better launch controller with a lead acid or Lipo 12 volt battery is the way to go. Those plastic Estes launch pads with legs are junk too but that's another thread.
 
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If I had this as a kid I would've never left Rocketry. The amount of time I save with this stuff allows for more launches and the reliability compared to igniters is awesome. One in about 30 fails. When this happens I can place a long box over the rocket and put is aside while I grab the next one. No, I won't use it at a club launch. I follow all rules when I'm at someone else's launch.
 

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On the original topic, and JIC some of you haven't seen it...if you have paper matches, wire from used ematches or commercial starters, an old USB cable, and a few household odds and ends (tape, scissors, wire strippers, etc.) you can make starters for Estes motors in a few minutes for virtually nothing. Properly made they'll light from a single 1.5V AA cell, so no more issues with half-dead batteries. And the leads can be as long as you want; no more scrunching up your eyes trying to get the clips on those tiny leads.

Reminds me, I need to make a few for NARAM.
 
I started with the Estes Astron igniter and the Estes elecctro launcher, that red box that held up to 8 D cell batteries and a tiltable two piece launch rod. I never used the recommended photo-flash batteries, but I still got reliable ignition with just 4 cells, although I recommended 6. Still replacing the batteries was expensive. The FSI igniters were more troublesome and sometimes I would just wrap an Astron igniter around it. The Astron igniter is still my favorite, and igniting Estes motors with them was easier that starting a model airplane engine.

The Solar igniters were too fragile, and the compact solar launcher did not put uot enough current from the four AA Alkaline batteries. I managed to install 5 AA NiCad batteries and that worked well even with Astron igniters.
 

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