Dee55
Well-Known Member
Been reading, I heard that u can reuse the Estes igniters if the bridge is still together, is this true? or is it just a made up tale?
Estes igniters
- Thread starter Dee55
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's true.
It's not easy to find a used Estes igniter with a bridge wire still intact, though.
It's not easy to find a used Estes igniter with a bridge wire still intact, though.
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
How cheap and how many?
Dee55
Well-Known Member
OK, thanks mabe I'll get lucky and have on intack
Dee55
Well-Known Member
I appreciate the offer, but I do have a good bit myself . I just like save a bit if I could reuse em. But thanks for the offer
rharshberger
Well-Known Member
Every pack of motors comes with igniters, usually the igniter wires break after firing (because it gets spit out of the nozzle at a high rate of speed and hits something), igniters are cheap.
If you have a sufficient launch system the cheapest starters come from a plain roll of nichrome.
I've got at least 8 unopened packs . If I can remove them and put in a regular envelope (with reinforcement) it would only cost me a buck to ship. How about 36 for $10 including postage?
Attachments
Last edited:
If you can find those, you can. If you have the "Corn Starch" version, soak that crap off.
Put a small "blob" of DUCO Cement on the tip ( Nitrocellulose cement ) and let it dry . . . Works well !
https://www.onboces.org/cms/lib/NY02216875/Centricity/Shared/MSDS%20D_List/Devcon%20Duco%20Cement%20August%202003.pdf
Dave F.
I read the attached hazmat/ingrediant lists you added, and Thanks for those too! My main question is, Do you know if that is a higher content than most nitro-cellulose fingernail polishes? I've been using the nitro-cellulose fingernail polish with good results, but do you get better results with the Duco Cement?
By the way, the last batch of 27 Estes igniters that I treated, I put the nitro-cellulose fingernail polish on first, then dipped them into crushed powderized black powder that I got from an Estes A10-0T booster per recommendations on another thread (crushed with a mini mortar and pestle).
Thanks- PTH
Hi, Paul !
Good question . . . So, I went searching for MSDS sheets for Nail Polish.
Apparently Nitrocellulose makes up 5%-15% of these 2 different nail polish products ( PDF's below ).
According to the DUCO Cement MSDS sheets ( previous post ), Nitrocellulose makes up 10% - 30% of it.
I have not done any comparison testing.
If anyone has additional info / data, please feel free to contribute !
Dave F.
Dave F - Thanks again and good to know! I did a next-morning test on one of my Nitro-Cellulose & Black Powder treated igniters and it indeed DOES have more Pizzaz than without the Black Powder.
I'm curious about the "corn starch" coating you referred to,
Q:Is that the almost clear thin coating that comes on a lot (most?) of the Estes Igniters?
Q:Is it really Corn Starch?
Q: If that is what you're suggesting to "soak it off", are you using water?, denatured alcohol?, naptha? Something else?
Thanks - Paul
I'm curious about the "corn starch" coating you referred to,
Q:Is that the almost clear thin coating that comes on a lot (most?) of the Estes Igniters?
Q:Is it really Corn Starch?
Q: If that is what you're suggesting to "soak it off", are you using water?, denatured alcohol?, naptha? Something else?
Thanks - Paul
Hi, Paul !
Yes, it is the clear coating . . . Yes, it is Corn Starch. There are still a LOT of those igniters out there.
Soak it in water for at least a minute. Then, it flakes / peels off ( be careful not to damage the Bridge Wire ).
Dave F.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
Just to be accurate it was cornstarch on the now discontinued #2302 Solar Starters - the current #3077 StarTech Starters have a much more active substance on the tips. Still needs to be in contact with the BP propellant and still needs the controller button held down until ignition but the StarTechs are much less prone to failure.
If the nichrome on the igniter is intact, use it again. I have a container of them in my range box and they get used for everything except clusters.
Here's some visuals out of order like most of my presentations. I found this nice little $5-$6 mortar and pestle in a fancy kitchen supply store in town, peeled an Estes A10-OT apart, separated the nozzle from the black powder and other paper fragments, carefully crushed big chunks with pliers, then used the motor and pestle to get a nice fine powder, coated the igniters with clear Nitro-Cellulose containing fingernail polish, then dipped the igniters in the black powder and Taa-Daa!!! Plus an extra bonus picture of a Barn Swallow that likes to hang out in our carport with Me and my Wife.
Attachments
Last edited:
UhClem
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
- Messages
- 2,052
- Reaction score
- 443
The MSDS for the old Solar igniters, that worked, included hide glue, corn starch, carbon, and potassium nitrate. The replacement looked like what you would get if you deleted the carbon and potassium nitrate.
subcom117
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2009
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 2
I read the PDF for the two products and nitrocellulose is only 10-20% of the Duco Cement, by weight, in the tube. Once it dries, would not the other two main ingredients, acetone 70-80% and isopropanol 1-10% evaporate, leaving the dried glue to be mostly nitrocellulose?
I have read this thread with interest, but is all this ignitor modification necessary? I have read complaints about the corn starch covered ignitors, but I have not had one failure in about 65 motors so far this year, and most were with the corn starch ignitors. I use the Estes E-motor launch controller with fresh alkaline AA batteries. There is a 1-2 second delay before ignition. Other rocketeers have had failures using my launch controller. Since I know it is reliable, I attribute the failures to faulty ignitor installation.
This month I launched my first two motor cluster. I modified my launch controller to plug into an external battery, a 12v 8Amp GelCel to have sufficient power for the cluster. There is now no delay, launch is almost instantaneous with the pressing of the button. I am 3 for 3 successful ignition of two motors.
I think you are definately onto something with the "correct" vs "faulty" igniter installation. I do really like my treated igniter performance, but yes, putting the igniter far enough into the nozzle to make contact with the Black Powder still works much better. Cool results you are getting with your 12 Volt 8 Amp system and cluster launches.
Two other ingredients: Less than 5% Camphor, and Less than 5% 1-methoxy-2-propanol acetate. I do know that 1-methoxy-2-propanol acetate biodegrades in about 30 days. Camphor readily begins evaporating at -40 C. I guess you end up with about 95% nitrocellulose.
Simple dip into Testor's Silver Paint works great.
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2009
- Messages
- 87
- Reaction score
- 121
these work great with estes motors https://electricmatch.com/rocketry/see/23/6/bp-rocket-starters
Paul, Can you fire one of these and film it? I'd be interested in seeing how these burn in comparison to the old silver paint.
Unfortunately it seems I can't post video, I tried to post some launch videos and the file was too large. I'll try lowering the already low/grainy recording on my camera and see if that helps but I think that will make for some pretty grainy footage. I'm curious too about trying Silver paint when I run out of the clear Nitrocellulose fingernail polish. I may try Silver paint and dipping the igniter in the black powder while still wet.
I was told about the silver paint about 4 yrs ago and have been using that method ever since. Every igniter I get my hands on gets dipped before it goes in the range box. I've had only a handful of single motor launches that failed since beginning this method. I don't keep track of fails to launch but I would say it is less than five in four years.
I did still have a couple of issues with failed clusters and tried doing the black powder dip. I bought a small pack of M100's from a fireworks shop and popped the plastic cap off the side and dumped the powder into a container. I then dipped the igniter in silver paint, let it sit for about 15 mins then dipped it in the container of powder.
In testing the flame wasn't any larger or more immediate than the paint only so I eventually stopped. The good news is that the igniter that were dipped in the silver and powder worked fine so nothing lost by trying.
FWIW firecrackers (M100 or any other designation) today don't contain BP, they contain flash powder. Though it should still work ok; someone long ago posted a motor-starter mixture that was essentially flash powder in NC lacquer or some similar binder.
Interesting. I did not know that. I need to get my hands on some 4ffff black powder for my level one maybe I'll do up a few igniters and see how that goes.
When I launch a rocket using 6 volts (for example, 4 “AA” size batteries), I sometimes recover the igniter with the tiny nichrome bridge wire intact.
When I launch a rocket with my 12 volt, sealed lead acid battery, so much current flows that the little bridge wire always seems to melt and break.
Y. O. U. T. U. B. E.
Similar threads
