Estes going to MAP = MSRP for all online sellers 4/1?

[SolarYellow]

"BRS Hobbies" is saying Estes will be going to MAP = MSRP for all online sellers, effective 4/1.

https://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?p=269756#post269756
I just spent a crapload of money just in case he's right. So I could save money, you see...

Well, probably well under half of what I bought was actually Estes, I just pulled the trigger on a couple of shopping carts I've been nursing along, waiting for the time to be right.

Curious if any other industry peeps on the forum have insight.

 

[mh9162013]

This is quite the development and I'm curious as to why it's coming (assuming it's true).

I can see some benefit to a MAP system, with a lot of resellers appreciating how it'll help reduce a "race to the bottom." But if the MAP is the same as the current prices on the Estes website, that would be something else.

I could see some sort of compromise in that a $20.00 kit on the Estes website (but $14.00 on AC Supply's website, for example), now sells for $18.00 everywhere. But $20.00 everywhere? Yikes!

 

[cwbullet]

Either that, or it is an April 1st joke.

 

[mh9162013]

Either that, or it is an April 1st joke.

Ahhh, excellent point.

 

[Sandy H.]

Either that, or it is an April 1st joke.

If so, that would be a bit of a bad joke for a business, IMO, as the OP pulled the trigger on a shopping cart and if the information was wrong, that might aggravate the OP a bit.

The MAP model does have some benefit for a supplier (at times) but if the MAP is high, that will be difficult for some people. I am aware that some vendors in industry follow MAP, but offer a 50% credit for items at times. . . so basically a big discount. Not sure how that would apply to rocketry.

Sandy.

 

[cwbullet]

If so, that would be a bit of a bad joke for a business, IMO, as the OP pulled the trigger on a shopping cart and if the information was wrong, that might aggravate the OP a bit.

The MAP model does have some benefit for a supplier (at times) but if the MAP is high, that will be difficult for some people. I am aware that some vendors in industry follow MAP, but offer a 50% credit for items at times. . . so basically a big discount. Not sure how that would apply to rocketry.

Sandy.

That was what I was trying to say. I should have added the word "bad".

 

[georgegassaway]

Well, it's not Estes posting this rumor that might be an April 1st "joke", so......

UPDATE - eRockets is also reporting the same, so it seems not to be a joke.

 

[SolarYellow]

Didn't buy anything I wouldn't have eventually bought anyway. So no worries there. If it's BS, maybe I missed out on a future sale. Or maybe some inflation.

 

[turbofireball]

For those of you who don't do the rocketry groups on FB, here is what Randy Boadway posted: "Hello everyone, I wanted to let the rocketry community know that Estes is making a change to their pricing strategy. Effective 4/1/23 retailers are no longer allowed to advertise Estes Rockets for less than they do on the Estes web page.
eRockets will be complying with this new policy effective on 4/1, I am quite sure most retailers will be complying with the new policy very soon. So, if you want a current Estes product at a reduced price now is the time to get it."

 

[BEC]

In other places where MAPs are enforced a common workaround is that one has to put an item in the shopping cart to see the actual price. I wouldn't be surprised to see some vendors do that here, if Randy's info is correct (and I've no reason to doubt his word).

I have a cart at AC Supply right now that I may enrich with more motors just to get ahead of this if it's true. One more business day to April 1st. *sigh*

 

[SolarYellow]

I can see the logic for this, but not at MSRP. If Estes is trying to get more actual hobby shops (HL is not a "hobby shop" IMO) to support and carry the line, they are going to have a hard time with the stuff being flung for 30-off if their distributor prices it to them at 30-off. There's nowhere for the local shops to make money. So from that perspective, this makes sense.

But at MSRP, Estes kits aren't a better deal than other stuff. For that money, I'd pick up a LOC or other kit instead. Apart from the motors, I buy Estes stuff because it's cheap and convenient.

I live in the third largest metro area in the US by population, and this hobby is still an online supply chain, apart from the very limited selection at HL. I've been to the local HS and they have one end cap with rocket stuff that looks like they're waiting for it to sell out so they can do something else with the space. If even the motors are at MSRP, that makes Quest motors from ACS or CRS pretty attractive.

I really wish HL would stock A3-6T, D12-7 and E12-8 motors. Apart from B6-6s and C6-7s, those are mostly what I buy.

 

[billpr]

looks like Estes is trying to better their own sells. Guess Hobby Lobby, the only source in Rome, Ga., will raise their prices Maybe it is a April Foolsday joke, not funny.
.

 

[mh9162013]

In other places where MAPs are enforced a common workaround is that one has to put an item in the shopping cart to see the actual price.

So that's why some prices on Amazon.com can't be seen until you've placed the item in your shopping cart? Ha! TIL...

Maybe there's still hope for discounted Estes products online (assuming no April Fool's Joke).

 

[tsmith1315]

retailers are no longer allowed to advertise Estes Rockets for less than they do on the Estes web page

Guess Hobby Lobby, the only source in Rome, Ga., will raise their prices

The wording above suggests that Hobby Lobby can keep their current pricing as long as it's not advertised. This way a Google search or Amazon won't lead you directly to a low-priced vendor.

 

[DigBaddy]

If true, this will really suck for purchasing motors; but one great opportunity for Aerotech/Quest to steal a massive slice of the pie.

 

[dr wogz]

wonder how that affects Estes sales outside the USA (thru their distributorship - here in Canada)..

what does 'MAP' stand for?

 

[sriegel]

what does 'MAP' stand for?

"minimum advertised price"

 

[dr wogz]

"minimum advertised price"

thanks!

 

[mh9162013]

If these rumors our true, another option for retailers is that they might have special deals, like "buy X, Y or Z kits and get a free pack of engine adapters or motor retainer rings."

 

[neil_w]

If this is true then I would imagine Estes is doing this to protect small retailers who can't compete with the online discounts... but it is unclear to me why this would need to be done right now. As always, we must acknowledge that Estes knows more about its own business than we do.

 

[mh9162013]

As always, we must acknowledge that Estes knows more about its own business than we do.

Of course. But until they tell us their reasoning, we are have the right to theorize and accept any explanation we choose.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

If this is true then I would imagine Estes is doing this to protect small retailers who can't compete with the online discounts... but it is unclear to me why this would need to be done right now. As always, we must acknowledge that Estes knows more about its own business than we do.

That makes sense. My semi-local hobby shop is fantastic, but at the same time, the fellow acknowledged his struggles across all his product lines... he has to pay for retail space, keep a knowledgeable staff (and they are good), and with the on-line sales, he notes "My suppliers are my competitors." Something must be working right for him, though - he just expanded his space last summer. I could browse there all day!

Trying to save confusion for readers, this isn't an idle rumor - uptrend it is stated that a good and reliable vendor is the source of this thread's premise.

 

[tsmith1315]

but it is unclear to me why this would need to be done right now

Perhaps because it’s the beginning of the 2nd quarter, a convenient breakpoint for tracking results.

 

[neil_w]

Of course. But until they tell us their reasoning, we are have the right to theorize and accept any explanation we choose.

Yes, but remember that Estes has no obligation, either legal or moral, to tell us its reasoning behind every business decision.

 

[Johnly]

If this is true then I would imagine Estes is doing this to protect small retailers who can't compete with the online discounts... but it is unclear to me why this would need to be done right now. As always, we must acknowledge that Estes knows more about its own business than we do.

Knowing who purchased Estes and their commitment to STEM and rocketry in general, I think you're on the right track. The folks on RP don't reflect the majority of the Estes client base who see and purchase a kit and some engines on a retail shelf. Increasing the viability of retailers placing Estes products having their shelves might be good for rocketry in the long run.

 

[mh9162013]

Yes, but remember that Estes has no obligation, either legal or moral, to tell us its reasoning behind every business decision.

Of course they don't. But if rumors abound online which aren't true, the onus is on Estes to make a correction. And if they choose not to, they can't complain if they don't like the consequences of the rumors.

 

[mh9162013]

Increasing the viability of retailers placing Estes products having their shelves might be good for rocketry in the long run.

My gut says this is the primary reason for the MAP policy implementation. And if so, why now? Well, I know online retailers have been getting killed on shipping costs, so it makes me wonder if a MAP policy was always in the works, but online retailers had enouch incentive to voice their opposition. But with shipping costs being so high, online retailers aren't as profitable as they used to be and a MAP policy won't hurt them anywhere near as much (or it might even help them, as it gives them an "excuse" to raise prices to offset their shipping costs).

 

[Back_at_it]

As a former reseller of various RC brands, MAP is minimum advertised price and there are a dozen ways around this with no legal recourse from the manufacturer.

Brands typically go to a MAP to protect the value of their brand when resellers start fighting over sales price. I find it funny when Estes does their 20% and 40% off sales and they are still more expensive than buying from ACSupply.

Personal opinion. With Estes lack of new offerings this year, a lineup of aging models and sky rocketing prices, I don't think they are in a position to be forcing pricing rules on resellers. I'm a life long Estes fan as they got me started in this hobby more than 35 yrs ago. The last new Estes kit I bought was the Der Big Red Max over a year ago and that kit was huge disappointment with the three piece thin warped balsa fins and self stick decals.

The only thing in the 2023 catalog that has any interest for me is the Great Goblin and that will all come down to what they do with the fins. If they do the multi piece setup like DBRM then I'll be passing on that one as well.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

If true, this will really suck for purchasing motors; but one great opportunity for Aerotech/Quest to steal a massive slice of the pie.

Conveniently (and maybe strategically), AC Supply just started selling Aerotech/Quest....

Just spoke to AC Supply on the phone and confirmed this is happening (I think I spoke to the owner since it is early in the morning there and he said no one is in the sales office yet).

I made sure to purchase all the rockets / engines I need to scout troop builds...

 

[SolarYellow]

Personal opinion. With Estes lack of new offerings this year, a lineup of aging models and sky rocketing prices, I don't think they are in a position to be forcing pricing rules on resellers.

Agreed.

I'm a life long Estes fan as they got me started in this hobby more than 35 yrs ago. The last new Estes kit I bought was the Der Big Red Max over a year ago and that kit was huge disappointment with the three piece thin warped balsa fins and self stick decals.

As noted above, the quality/content just isn't there on the more expensive stuff.
A DBRM at $21.99 - I'll buy multiples just because. Treat it as an economical collection of rocket parts and figure out what to build with it later.
A DBRM at $34.## - I'll buy one when I'm ready to build it.
A DBRM at $54.99 - I'll step up to a LOC or something else because the Estes kit "needs" a bunch more money spent on upgrades before I'm satisfied with the quality and content of the finished rocket. Might as well just buy a kit that comes with all that content in the first place. Or scratch build.

Another case study; I've been holding off placing an ACS order until they got more Doorknobs in stock. Passed on buying one from other retailers that were several bucks more because I'm not in any hurry - it's going to sit on the build pile for awhile. Last night, I bought one from Hobbylinc for about $5 more than ACS' price and spread the shipping over a bunch of other stuff I'd been planning to buy, as well as some motors that I can't get anywhere else without paying HAZ. However, after tomorrow, I'm just not going to buy one. I'll build something else. Or scratch build.

The "Pro Series" is far, far from actually being "Pro" content and MSRP is out of line for what you get.

I think it's clear that Estes is back into seeing themselves as the "gateway" company for beginners in the hobby and casual consumers. Toy store shoppers. They're giving up on more knowledgeable enthusiasts and advanced builders. Eliminating diversity of product, not selling parts for scratch builders, etc.

The only thing in the 2023 catalog that has any interest for me is the Great Goblin and that will all come down to what they do with the fins. If they do the multi piece setup like DBRM then I'll be passing on that one as well.

That and the parachute. There's a picture of a black parachute with a Goblin in it. If that's nylon, I might have to be in and find something else do to with the DBRM nose cone and 3-inch BT I have planned to build my own 3-in Goblin. But at $59.99 or something like that with a plastic chute and junk fins, I'm scratch building with a very nice nylon parachute bought somewhere else.