Estes going to MAP = MSRP for all online sellers 4/1?

[KenECoyote]

Maybe newer ones were better? I never even heard of deburring the sides of them or peeling them. I just stuck them in and used the piece of tape on each side trick, and they worked fine.

(For purposes of possibly helpful sidetrack conversation contribution...)

Have you heard of burning the end and separating the two sides out?

The copperhead had poor performance imho due to the SOP of just one sided contact surface and with some clubs having rusty or old alligator clips, half the contact surface means twice the likelihood of "failure to launch" (haha, I just wanted to say that).

They worked OK for me when I burned the ends, split the layers and wrapped them around the clips... improving the contact maybe 10x.

YMMV

 

[flyingeagle]

One day someone is going to get a mystery box with fun filled, action packed, tissue paper for wadding.

 

[SolarYellow]

A box filled with Estes wadding would actually be valuable.

 

[KenECoyote]

Having learned my lesson as a young kid, I now associate "Mystery Bags" with "Crap we can't sell and want to get rid of".

It's more like a scratch lottery to me... don't buy it expecting to make out well.

 

[bad_idea]

I don't understand all the bashing of Estes in this thread? The way the economy and job market is nowadays I'm just glad they are still in business. I love their BP motors and if the MAP is what they need to do to keep the ship sailing then tip of the hat to them for keeping the ship afloat.

I too love black powder, and I fully expect to continue to fly a bunch of 18mm and some 24mm Estes motors, simply fewer than before their price to me jumped on many models and Quest's prices dropped now that AC carries them (though not a lot fewer in the case of what motors still have good prices at Hobby Lobby). I'm also not going further down the 29mm black powder rabbit hole unless big discounts appear again. I love the long burn of the F15, but those are now fairly expensive motors, especially with HAZMAT and no local vendor I know of carrying them.

Like you, I am glad Estes have survived and agree that this may be the cost of that. As I said early on, this may be good both for Estes and its retailers and ultimately good for small kit makers and end users. That doesn't mean I'll consume as much Estes product as I did in the past though. I wasn't their target market, and I'm okay with that.

I do think the mystery box was a debacle and damaged Estes with its enthusiasts, but I didn't buy it so wasn't affected by it. Certainly many past owners of Estes have damaged the brand far more.

 

[Pappy]

i knew when i mentioned the mystery box someone was gonna bag on me for it. whatever. my point was simply that estes is changing how they do stuff, and we don't have to like it just 'cause they're estes. and just for the sake of clarification, i wasn't 'forced' to buy it, i was coerced, and the only blame i'll own is that i was a fanboy. i told the rep there how i felt and he told me that everybody else loved their s* and to get over it. didn't ask for a refund, just wanted to let them know that this cash grab was beneath them.

i wonder if estes going map had anything to do with their catalog coupon possibly going largely unheralded. anybody take advantage? it feels to me like they're trying to own the online market, seeing companies like ACSupply and Hobbylinc as competitors rather than symbiotes. again. i don't care what they do... there will always in my lifetime be rocs to build and engines to stuff them with, and i don't care if they have the 'e' on them or not.

 

[techrat]

I never used the copperhead ignitors, but I've used the ones that consist of two insulated wires joined by pyrogen on the tip. And I have to say that I find them MORE reliable than Estes ignitors. I've have dozens of Estes failures (I even started a thread here on RTF "Estes Ignitors are a PITA"), while only suffering a single failure of quest/aerotech, and that was due to a "chuff" (and quest replaced the motor). As soon as I run out of BP motors, I believe it is composite for me all the time baby!

 

[Rob Campbell]

I never used the copperhead ignitors, but I've used the ones that consist of two insulated wires joined by pyrogen on the tip. And I have to say that I find them MORE reliable than Estes ignitors. I've have dozens of Estes failures (I even started a thread here on RTF "Estes Ignitors are a PITA"), while only suffering a single failure of quest/aerotech, and that was due to a "chuff" (and quest replaced the motor). As soon as I run out of BP motors, I believe it is composite for me all the time baby!

Estes igniters have to be handled with care. I find it very easy to break the tip off, rendering them useless. I preferred toe old "Astron" igniters what came with the blue diamond box engines to the "solar" (first generation PITA igniters) igniters. Although, have to admit, the plastic plugs make it easier to install them and they do a better job than a small piece of wadding.

 

[flyingeagle]

I have a bunch of E9 motors I bought before the E12s came out. From what I have read the E9s have a bad reputation of CATO. I’m afraid of using them. Some say to use them in a rocket that isn’t your favorite. Well their all my favorite and don’t want to blow them up. Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

 

[techrat]

Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

Very likely the CATO is due to the nozzle blowing out. If you put a ring of CA or epoxy around the nozzle, chances are you can fly those motors without failure.

 

[SolarYellow]

I have a bunch of E9 motors I bought before the E12s came out. From what I have read the E9s have a bad reputation of CATO. I’m afraid of using them. Some say to use them in a rocket that isn’t your favorite. Well their all my favorite and don’t want to blow them up. Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

Bulk pack of Alphas built MD with tape retention.

 

[BEC]

Bulk pack of Alphas built MD with tape retention.

THAT would be very interesting. Truly fire and forget.

When I first came back to the hobby in 2009 and discovered Aerotech D10s and D21s I got REALLY frustrated at the supplied igniters (not Copperheads, generally). This eventually led me to Quickburst and making my own.

More recently, I've had pretty good luck with supplied Aerotech igniters that come with 24/40 reloads and such (though I did have a failure yesterday, surprisingly on a Blue Thunder motor — which then lit immediately when I put an Estes Sonic igniter in it). Q-Jets have been pretty reliable from an ignition standpoint most of the time. I had a C18W once that took three tries.

I have used a few Copperheads and they've worked for me, I do have and use an actual Copperhead clip, to which I clip the actual launcher leads.

 

[Rob Campbell]

I have a bunch of E9 motors I bought before the E12s came out. From what I have read the E9s have a bad reputation of CATO. I’m afraid of using them. Some say to use them in a rocket that isn’t your favorite. Well their all my favorite and don’t want to blow them up. Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

Give them to someone you don't like.

 

[4regt4]

I have a bunch of E9 motors I bought before the E12s came out. From what I have read the E9s have a bad reputation of CATO. I’m afraid of using them. Some say to use them in a rocket that isn’t your favorite. Well their all my favorite and don’t want to blow them up. Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

Yes! The Rocketarium Turbo Vortico. Just order one. You'll be glad. You basically can't blow it up.

I ended up with 6 AT E26-4 motors all with the same date code. After having 2 Cato, I was reluctant to use the rest. (FWIW, I've used 5 of the 6, all Cato'd.) Anyway, after those 1st 2, the rest find their way into the Vortico. Even with a Cato, you still get a good flight. I also use it for Estes E12's with questionable date codes.

Hans,

 

[flyingeagle]

Is that what causes the E9 motors to fail if so I will try the CA on the nozzle. Do I put the CA on the outer edge only? What about getting CA up inside accidentally, will it screw up anything? Not getting off the subject but I’m buying the Quest Minotaur and maybe the Big Dog also. Neither of these rockets have an motor retainer. What can I use besides a friction fit? The Estes screw on motor retainer may not fit because the tubes are different size from different manufacturers. Any suggestions?

 

[flyingeagle]

I have never ordered from Hobby Link before but I put some F15 motors in the cart to see what would happen. As soon as I plugged in a F15-8 it showed Hazmat shipping. I deleted that motor and plugged in a F15-6 and the Hazmat shipping disappeared. These BP motors are expensive but Hobby Link has good deals on them until you plug in something with more black powder grain I seen a static test on F15-0 and they failed severely. I wish they could develop a composite motor for staging without electronics then I would ditch these F motors.

 

[BEC]

Yes! The Rocketarium Turbo Vortico. Just order one. You'll be glad. You basically can't blow it up.

That is a brilliant idea…and I have seen a Turbo Vortico survive such things unscathed.

I ended up with 6 AT E26-4 motors all with the same date code. After having 2 Cato, I was reluctant to use the rest. (FWIW, I've used 5 of the 6, all Cato'd.) Anyway, after those 1st 2, the rest find their way into the Vortico. Even with a Cato, you still get a good flight. I also use it for Estes E12's with questionable date codes.

Hans,

Care to share the date code? I just bought some E26-7Ws from AC Supply (they arrived yesterday) and would love to know….

 

[SolarYellow]

I have never ordered from Hobby Link before but I put some F15 motors in the cart to see what would happen. As soon as I plugged in a F15-8 it showed Hazmat shipping. I deleted that motor and plugged in a F15-6 and the Hazmat shipping disappeared. These BP motors are expensive but Hobby Link has good deals on them until you plug in something with more black powder grain I seen a static test on F15-0 and they failed severely. I wish they could develop a composite motor for staging without electronics then I would ditch these F motors.

E16-8s don't add HAZ to the cart there.

 

[Zyzzyva1000]

So scanned through the thread, wasn't sure if anyone else had tested this. I too was more than a little annoyed by this MAP fiasco. However, I needed something from AC supply and decided I may as well get the Estes Nike Smoke (want a mini me for my 3 inch SBR nike smoke). Anyway, a few hours after ordering I got an email noting a refund of 30% of the price (and a note that just said 30% Estes discount). So maybe that's how it goes now? I didn't have to do anything, and if I know this is the case, then it's not really a big deal. Still seems stupid on Estes part, but at least one e-tailer has already figured this out.

 

[flyingeagle]

I just placed an order a few days ago with AC and never received a email on anything. Just the usual 40% as they always do

 

[KenECoyote]

I just placed an order a few days ago with AC and never received a email on anything. Just the usual 40% as they always do

Actually it used to be 40%, but last few times I ordered (including recently just before Mapgate), it's 30% off.

 

[flyingeagle]

Is that 30% on top of the 40%

 

[bad_idea]

Actually it used to be 40%, but last few times I ordered (including recently just before Mapgate), it's 30% off.

It was 40% prior to 2022, then 30% until MAPgate.

 

[Scott_650]

So scanned through the thread, wasn't sure if anyone else had tested this. I too was more than a little annoyed by this MAP fiasco. However, I needed something from AC supply and decided I may as well get the Estes Nike Smoke (want a mini me for my 3 inch SBR nike smoke). Anyway, a few hours after ordering I got an email noting a refund of 30% of the price (and a note that just said 30% Estes discount). So maybe that's how it goes now? I didn't have to do anything, and if I know this is the case, then it's not really a big deal. Still seems stupid on Estes part, but at least one e-tailer has already figured this out.

Not the most elegant solution but one that gets the job done.

 

[Scott_650]

I have never ordered from Hobby Link before but I put some F15 motors in the cart to see what would happen. As soon as I plugged in a F15-8 it showed Hazmat shipping. I deleted that motor and plugged in a F15-6 and the Hazmat shipping disappeared. These BP motors are expensive but Hobby Link has good deals on them until you plug in something with more black powder grain I seen a static test on F15-0 and they failed severely. I wish they could develop a composite motor for staging without electronics then I would ditch these F motors.

E16-8s don't add HAZ to the cart there.

All of previous and the current order en route from Hobbylinc were shipped USPS 3rd Class/Ground Only. When you add any motors - even 18mm Q Jets - to your cart that’s the only shipping option available. I’m not an expert on hazmat shipping, I had originator training, proper storage training, and contingency inspector training during my career but that was a long time ago - so the last thing I want to add to the Estepocalypse/ MAPgate discussion is thread drift over how Hobbylinc doesn’t follow the rules. IIRC the packages I’ve received from Hobbylinc with large BP motors were all properly marked and labeled as advertised, when my next order arrives I’ll check the DOT hazmat numbers and UN numbers (if there’s any on the box) and check if they used a marked PoP box to see if it all makes sense.

 

[PDawg]

I have a bunch of E9 motors I bought before the E12s came out. From what I have read the E9s have a bad reputation of CATO. I’m afraid of using them. Some say to use them in a rocket that isn’t your favorite. Well their all my favorite and don’t want to blow them up. Anyone have suggestions on the E9 motors?

I'll send them up in a nice scratch build if you don't want them.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

All the AT motors and reloads come with an igniter. They DON'T come with any spares.

So the usual scenario is: you have a misfire, hurriedly "borrow" one from another motor/reload, have a good flight, forget you stole the igniter, a while later go another launch, complain about missing igniter ... REPEAT... Eventually you have a bunch of motors without igniters...

Same happens with Estes. I ended up two igniters short out of a four pack because the igniters didn't work.

 

[Pappy]

Is that 30% on top of the 40%

no, acsupply used to knock 40 off msrp then something happened and everything went to 30, maybe 33? now i guess it's straight 30, and again, that's off msrp. hobbylinc usually somewhere around 25-30 on a good day.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I make tiny starters for my 18 mm D grain motors, How I make them is posts 58 and 59 of my 18 mm motors thread https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/18-mm-motors.158722/page-2 It is in the research forum so you need access. I can repost it here if you don''t have research access.

 

[4regt4]

Care to share the date code? I just bought some E26-7Ws from AC Supply (they arrived yesterday) and would love to know….

No. It's a secret.

Just kidding. 080321. But mine were all E26-4, not sure if the -7 were in the same troublesome batch. I don't see the E26-7 in the MESS reports.

Hans.