And now Estes is offering us an Easter Egg hunt this week, if you receive email from them. I would rather stay away from gimmicks and keep things steady, predictable and reliable.
Estes going to MAP = MSRP for all online sellers 4/1?
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Scott_650
Well-Known Member
Hobbylinc hasn’t changed their prices as of this morning - make sure and add a pack of BP motors to your order to get the lower cost ground only shipping. I have no connection to Hobbylinc other than being a cheapsk…er…frugal
I'm wondering if any if this is due to Hobby Lobby's influence.
I wouldn't blame them and rhey have the clout and big contract.
I wouldn't blame them and rhey have the clout and big contract.
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
How so?
Why would it be? Because they don't advertise and sell at less than MSRP? They barely know what they're ordering.
I was just putting together an order at Chris's Rockets, and the prices changed to the new MAP before I could hit submit. 
Not one website I've looked at mentions any way to get the items lower than MAP, none are doing the "add to cart to see the price" routine. So as of now, it seems that MAP is the price (ie, full price) we're gonna pay.
I have been looking at an Estes order for certain parts that only they carry (long BT-80 tubes, the BT-80K nosecone), and the launch2023 code knocks off 25%, but the full price bit discourages me from ordering certain other items because I'm hoping to find them cheaper elsewhere. If MAP is going to be the new normal and prices don't go down, it is going to put a crimp in my future Estes purchases. Few of their kits appeal to me, so its mainly parts and engines. Yeah, I know, we're a tiny segment of their market, etc.
I can see myself gravitating to other parts vendors. I refuse to use Quest motors anymore, so for low-some midpower rockets, I'm going to have to eat the price increase or decrease my purchases. Probably the latter. I'm glad I stocked up awhile ago, and have 1-2 years worth of most engines, but I don't want to get too low either.
Not one website I've looked at mentions any way to get the items lower than MAP, none are doing the "add to cart to see the price" routine. So as of now, it seems that MAP is the price (ie, full price) we're gonna pay.
I have been looking at an Estes order for certain parts that only they carry (long BT-80 tubes, the BT-80K nosecone), and the launch2023 code knocks off 25%, but the full price bit discourages me from ordering certain other items because I'm hoping to find them cheaper elsewhere. If MAP is going to be the new normal and prices don't go down, it is going to put a crimp in my future Estes purchases. Few of their kits appeal to me, so its mainly parts and engines. Yeah, I know, we're a tiny segment of their market, etc.
I can see myself gravitating to other parts vendors. I refuse to use Quest motors anymore, so for low-some midpower rockets, I'm going to have to eat the price increase or decrease my purchases. Probably the latter. I'm glad I stocked up awhile ago, and have 1-2 years worth of most engines, but I don't want to get too low either.
mr. bob
Well-Known Member
It is a double edge sword. For the flyers it cuts out massive savings from mega discounters like AC. Whose price was below dealer cost. On the positive side it may move product for smaller stores. I have a very large selection of rockets in my store. But when I got my MAP form I added about 40 Estes items that I dont carry unless asked like bulk packs of motors. Without MAP Estes is not a big seller in stores. Outside of 4H purchases. Estes isnt making more or less money really as it is more of a bennifit of brick and mortar. And maybe a slight uptick on there web store.
Hopefully this will encourage other stores to stock more of there product. Instead of a few items at most.
Hopefully this will encourage other stores to stock more of there product. Instead of a few items at most.
That may be helpful one happens to have a local hobby store that carries rockets. Around here, its Hobby Lobby, one store a half hour away that has a token selection of rockets, or one that's over an hour away with the same token selection. I am good with supporting the local hobby stores if you have one, but if you don't, its mailorder or nothing.
If I were Hobby Lobby, thinking and acting like Estes' biggest contract, I'd be looking at why sales aren't higher. Then discovering that some sellers are advertising heavily discounted prices regularly (undercutting me) would be a definite NO and a point of contract renegotiation.
Just speculation on my part, but I can see it happening .
Does Hobby Lobby not use regular distributors?
mr. bob
Well-Known Member
Agree to many brick and mortar stores are gone for good especially hobby stores. Not many prople are willing to risk investing tens or hundreds of thousands into a store if they cant get a return on there investment. But it also helps the smaller online stores. And gives the name Estes a little more brand value. When they figure a price it is what they preceve (rightly or wrongly) a value of there kit. Which has to give a profit for them, the distributor and there dealer. When someone sells a widget at 40% off becuse there buying at distributor quantitys it kills any chance for a legit dealer to sell it. Abd prople that see a $20 widget sell for $12. They think thats all the item is worth.That may be helpful one happens to have a local hobby store that carries rockets. Around here, its Hobby Lobby, one store a half hour away that has a token selection of rockets, or one that's over an hour away with the same token selection. I am good with supporting the local hobby stores if you have one, but if you don't, its mailorder or nothing.
mr. bob
Well-Known Member
No they buy direct from Estes. And Estes only sells them a certian selection of items. Not there full catalog
I guess it would have to be that way with their exclusives. Thanks!
I’m in the same boat.
Since I have to mail order, I do so from from shops that support rocketry. Especially those who spend the time/money to pack a trailer full and haul it to a launch.
I’m curious, did AC Supply support launches in their area?
Boycotting Estes is a worthwhile consideration . . . At least, it would give us a "true perspective" on how important all of us really are, to Estes.
A main problem is that they have a "monopoly" on BP motors.
Dave F.
A main problem is that they have a "monopoly" on BP motors.
Dave F.
To be honest the half dozen or so Estes BP engines I use per month, marked up an extra dollar per engine or whatever it comes out to, won't make a dent in my budget. And I have more kits than I will ever build.
If this helps Estes stay viable, great. But I already use Q-jets a lot and they may find this bites 'em in the butt. Time will tell.
If this helps Estes stay viable, great. But I already use Q-jets a lot and they may find this bites 'em in the butt. Time will tell.
Given that my annual expenditure on Estes products is far less than a tank of gas, I doubt that anyone would notice.
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
But a MAP policy that applies to onlines discount retailers also applies to Hobby Lobby, right?
What am I missing here?
Hobby Lobby can stop advertising their discount prices online and just have the discounted prices in-store... or they can just go MAP like everyone else.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
The MAP policies only apply to whichever entities Estes requires to sign the agreement contract.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
A monopoly in practice but not one enforced by law or interference - anyone with the wherewithal can start making BP hobby rocket motors and unless they illicitly used proprietary, protected methods exclusive to Estes via patent or license there’s nothing Estes could do to stop them.
dr wogz
Fly caster
Could we lump Walmart in with Hobby Lobby? As far as i know, they used to sell Estes, but no longer. maybe they made a stink in order to carry them again.. jut pondering..
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
Oh.
I figured a company that went with a MAP policy would apply it to all its customers.
Scott_650
Well-Known Member
As easy a target as Walmart can be for less than ideal business practices it doesn’t look like they have any part of this - I couldn’t find any Estes items actually sold by W-M. There are sellers who use W-M as their storefront but it doesn’t appear that Walmart is the actual vendor.
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
Well, Target has been said to now carry some Estes products...in store and online?
I have also noticed Walmart carrying a lot more plastic model kits over the past year or so. So maybe there's hope model rockets are next?
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In addition to the exclusive items, HL gets special packaging with their own price tags embedded in the product. Lots of HL prices are lower than ACS was on the same rocket kit last week.
HL's prices on C6-7 and B6-6 are equivalent to where ACS was, so that's where I've bought them. Unfortunately, HL doesn't stock D12-7 or E12-8.
Interesting - I don't think I've seen that in store.
James Duffy
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Not necessarily. Hobby Lobby certainly occupies a unique place in the Estes ecosystem as the most likely gateway to the hobby. This status is evidenced by the many unique products that the company receives.
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