Estes F15-6 black powder motor!

[Bill Gibson]

I picked these up at Hobby Lobby yesterday with a 40% off coupon....can anyone tell me a little more about them? Never used them....are they more dependable then the 24mm E motors some people have been experiencing CATOs with? Are they true F motors?

 

[tab28682]

The Estes BP at motors are "true" F motors, but that does not mean they are full F motors. The are about 50 Ns total impulse.

https://www.nar.org/SandT/pdf/Estes/F15.pdf

I have not heard nearly as many complaints about the 29mm BP E and F motors compared to the 24mm E motors.

The Estes F is a mid power motor, not a low power motor. You would likely find more info about it in the Mid Power forum or the Propulsion forum.

 

[Bill Gibson]

Thanks! I think I accidently clicked on the wrong forum! DUHH!

 

[rstaff3]

I've flown a bunch of the F15s and E16s. No problems yet!

 

[bill_s]

They're about the same total impulse as non-Hazmat Aerotech composite F motors and 29 mm CTI F motors, but less thrusty than most and a bit heavier. The worst thing is that since Hobby Lobby doesn't understand rocketry they don't carry the shorter delay F15-4 motors that work better with the heavier PSII rockets they used to sell, only the versions for what they now sell.

The design is conservative, with relatively less thrust peak than the 24 mm motors. Burn is nicely long and steady to the end unlike most composite thrust profiles.

 

[TangoJuliet]

And just what models would these work best with? I think my local Hobby Lobby has some of these and it may be worth my while to buy them if I can build a model worthy of using them.

 

[rstaff3]

I have the Majestic and the rest have been modified or scratch built. I converted a Mega Mosquito, a Big Daddy, a Mini Bertha, and Maxi Alpha for them. I scratched a bunch of others including a x3 cluster. The F15-4 seems to work well in an Aerotech Cheetah.

 

[TangoJuliet]

:headbang: Thanks.

 

[rstaff3]

PS - several of my models need the -4. I get them from Hobbylinc.

 

[bill_s]

Actually, I flew the F15-6 a few times with rockets weighing about a pound without motor, but the last one broke the shock cord and it would have zippered without rear ejection. Adding 1 ounce of lighting to the rocket reduced the ejection height a couple hundred feet. My Panavia kit (14 oz.) may still get some of them.

 

[Lowpuller]

I have used them successfully but thought the results were disappointing. However never had an F CATO. I've got an E left that two of three CATOed, anyone willing to take a chance??

I would rather shoot an AeroTech E white lighting reload than an Estes F.

 

[rstaff3]

I have used them successfully but thought the results were disappointing. However never had an F CATO. I've got an E left that two of three CATOed, anyone willing to take a chance??

I would rather shoot an AeroTech E white lighting reload than an Estes F.

Well, the E16's come in 2 packs.

 

[tab28682]

Well, the E16's come in 2 packs.

I think he meant a 24mm E12 and not a 29mm E16. The E12s used to come in 3 packs.

I have seen a few of the Estes F15s fly and they look like fun in the right rockets. I recently purchased a PSII E2X Trajector on sale and look forward to flying it on that motor.

 

[rstaff3]

I think he meant a 24mm E12 and not a 29mm E16. The E12s used to come in 3 packs.

I have seen a few of the Estes F15s fly and they look like fun in the right rockets. I recently purchased a PSII E2X Trajector on sale and look forward to flying it on that motor.

Yup that's what I figured. Apples and oranges...for now.

 

[Cabernut]

My local(1.5 hours away) Hobby Lobby seems to only sell the -4 and -8s. I like the Estes 29mm BP motors. Lower thrust but an easy way to do mid-power staging. An F15-0 staging to an F15-8 is a nice sight.

 

[swatkat]

I wish that they had the 4 second delays, those would be much better for most of the rockets (PS-II and other 29mm mounts as stated above). I will say that my 13 Oz (w/o motor) Panavia flies great on the F15-6. Nice and slow, long burn to about 700 feet. 6 seconds blows just past apogee.

 

[Bill Gibson]

Thanks for the the good info guys! So it sounds like these motors will work ok with a rocket weighing around 8 to 15oz!

 

[Charles_McG]

I built a BT70 based Vigilante upscale with these motors in mind.

Haven't tried an F-F flight yet. I love the long burn, but the relatively lower thrust is a bit of a nail biter for two-stagers. Low-low wind limit. I'm planning on sticking to the E16 for the lower stage in future flights. Easier for booster recovery, too

 

[mccordmw]

The F15 is the motor I've flown the most. I probably have 30+ launches on a mix of F15-8 and F15-6 motors on an Estes Trajector. They have a nice, long burn of 3.5 seconds. The initial thrust is a bit low, so you get slow, majestic takeoffs from the rod with a PSII model. I prefer not to use these motors with my PSII on windy days due to too much weathercocking. They will put my Trajector up to around 1200 feet. The ideal delay is around 6 seconds, but the extra 2 seconds of falling won't hurt these light PSII models.

I've linked this before. Here's my Trajector going up on an F15-8 at Buder Park in STL with our St. Louis Rocketry Association.

[video=youtube;aHIybHO6ZQk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHIybHO6ZQk[/video]

 

[Rocketjunkie]

I built a BT70 based Vigilante upscale with these motors in mind.

Haven't tried an F-F flight yet. I love the long burn, but the relatively lower thrust is a bit of a nail biter for two-stagers. Low-low wind limit. I'm planning on sticking to the E16 for the lower stage in future flights. Easier for booster recovery, too

I have flown a bunch of F15s in various configurations. My dual deploy 4-29SS gives a nice 1100 foot flight on 4 F15's, and a 4 stage rack rocket does surprisingly well in light wind conditions. I've also airstarted 8 F15s in my Motoreater after boosting on a J.
Here's video of the rack rocket.
[YOUTUBE]6WZrA9sLHpI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[flyingeagle]

I know this is an old conversation but how is Hobby Link to buy motors from and how is Hobby Link to deal with?

 

[Seatechnerd83]

The first rocket launch I went to had its only F15 motor flight have a CATO, the nozzle blew out, otherwise that is the only situation ive heard of of the F15 CATOing.

 

[SolarYellow]

I know this is an old conversation but how is Hobby Link to buy motors from and how is Hobby Link to deal with?

If you mean Hobbylinc.com, they are one of my go-tos. Never had a problem, although they can be quite slow to ship. They have great pricing on a lot of items that I can't get anywhere else.

 

[flyingeagle]

I have quite a few PSll rockets and I’m trying to stock up on E16 and F15 motors. To be quite honest I haven’t hit the launch button since I was a kid in 1975. I have the itch to get going. I have several motors in my cart at Hobby Link but never ordered from them and hopping their legit.They told me that Hazmat fees are already included in the total. I have about 6 or 7 packs of F15-8 motors along with two packs of F15-0s. Just hope the F motors don’t have a bad percentage rate on CATOs.

 

[flyingeagle]

I’m new to some or this hobby again and wondering what is a good single use composite motor to take over for the BP motor.

 

[SolarYellow]

Check the shipping total when adding E and F motors to your cart. You'll see whether HAZ is being charged additionally.

I'm a fan of the Quest 24mm White Lightning motors in the D-E impulse ranges. If you get past that, definitely consider an AT 24/40 case. Several great options there, and for the additional labor and prep time, you get a lot more impulse/dollar. Also, the reloads are generally shippable without HAZ charges, whereas any similar single-use motor will be HAZ.

It really depends on what rockets you're launching and what you want them to do. Most composites have much greater average thrust than the 29mm Estes, as well as greater total impulse. They are also much lighter relative to their impulse and average thrust. This will probably actually be great in your Estes PSII rockets.

Ironically, the Estes BP 29mm motors, with their low average thrust and long burn times, are significantly better suited to rockets Estes doesn't sell as kits. But even with that, I often find a 24mm E12-8 performing on par or better than a 29mm E16-8 when I run them in a sim on a lightweight, skinny rocket.

 

[flyingeagle]

It just shows total plus insurance plus shipping charge but don’t see a Hazmat fees

 

[SolarYellow]

If your shippping is in the $10-15 range, they are not charging HAZ. If it's in the $45-50 range, they are charging HAZ.

 

[flyingeagle]

I just started buying Quest 18mm and 24mm composite motets. I’m now looking at the EnerJet motors in the E to F 29mm. I wish I could afford casings but I would worry about loosing the rocket then by by casing. Shipping is around $11.45. Good suggestions. I appreciate it

 

[flyingeagle]

I have a couple of black max and others in white lightning just to see what they will do.