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nomopbo

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Approximately how much longer is an Estes E motor than an Estes D?
Thanks
 

nomopbo

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Thanks for the reply. I haven't purchased any E engines yet and was wondering how far they would hang out the back of the rockets I have. LOL An inch is probably pushing it.
 

vjp

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Originally posted by nomopbo
Thanks for the reply. I haven't purchased any E engines yet and was wondering how far they would hang out the back of the rockets I have. LOL An inch is probably pushing it.
Measure where your rocket's CG is, with a "D" installed. Then, with an "E" installed and hanging out the back, add nose weight to bring the CG back to where it was.

Provided the rocket isn't too heavy for an E9 (they have a lower peak thrust), and the motor is taped in or friction fit snugly, you shouldn't have a problem.
 

nomopbo

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Sweet!
I may make the mid-power leap sooner than expected!
Thank you for the additional info!
 

rbeckey

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I have often used E9s in my Mean Machine w/o problem.
 

jflis

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likewise, the FlisKits Richter Recker flies great on a cluster of 3 E9-6's even if it is built for the shorter motors.
 

nomopbo

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Jflis,
I just got finished looking at the tread with the picture you posted with the duct taped engines hanging from the RR. That rocket is longer than the low power stuff I have, so I guess it doesnt affect the CG much at all. I may have to give that puppy a try. I'm glad to know cramming a motor in is not such a far fetched idea.

I know it's obvious I'm new around here, but my philosophy is rockets were made to FLY!!! Cram the biggest thing you can in that baby!

I started flying rockets back in July 03. I have been modding my low power stuff for larger engines. I am scratch building my first cluster, and just ordered a Aerotech Initiator. I saw your Tres 3 and the Loc/Precision Viper's in other threads. They are now on my "to do" list! I'm addicted like everyone else here! (Is it possible to have too many rockets??? naaaaa)

I joined a club, but have yet to make it to a launch yet. Looking forward to it. As well as learning from all of you here!

nomopbo
 

jflis

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oh man, you asked that *question* about having too many rockets.... this thread is going to LIGHT up now... :D

yea, we're just a bunch of "tim taylor's" in here :) argh, argh, ARGH!!!

If we don't do composites, we compensate with BP clusters (or both!) LOL I've been a cluster fiend since 1969 when i built my 1:70 scale Estes Saturn 1B (great kit)
 

xxxREKxxx

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Well now that just brings up another "E" question. How will an Estes Phoenix fly with an E. Do I need to beef anything up? I'm toying with the idea of fillets like on the protoype just 'cause they are cool. They should also add some strength. I usually bail the glue to the motor mounts, you only get one shot on getting those right.
Bob
 

jflis

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caution here...

I'm not sure if the current Pheonix is the same as the kit I flew years ago, but that kit is marginally stable and sometimes struggled with a D12 engine.

Two critical things are going to happen with an E motor:

1) The E is heavier so you will be moving the CG back. Add nose weight to compensate. The engine mount is already recessed because of the stability issues with this kit (moving the engine mount forward moves the CG forward for greater stability)

2) The E motor has a lower initial boost off the pad and the D12 many times seemed to be barely able to get it to stable air speed. If you go with the E, I would recommend a *very* long rod, preferably 1/4" or rail buttons and a long rail (4+feet)

Now, *dual* E9 cluster, if you could get the CG in the right place, would probably be *way* cool...

others thoughts?
jim
 

Prowler901

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others thoughts?
Yeah Jim. How about your 5 motor cluster in the Phoenix. :D Ballanced out with the appropriate nose weight, of course. ;)

Regards,
Todd
 

prowlerguy

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This thread has prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me.

I often read about people modifying their already-build rockets to accept a new motor mount with more/larger engines. How do you do that? When I intall a MM, I don't intend for it to move, so it is firmly glued in place. I can't imagine removing one without trashing the body tube in some way.

As always, thanks.
 

powderburner

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For myself, I rarely do conversions on the mmt after a rocket is built. If I make changes, I do it before/during construction.

You can of course build with the largest mount you might ever possibly desire to fly with, and then use adapters to get down to smaller, 'regular' motors.

The few times I have removed a motor mount (I think twice), I did indeed cause a LOT of damage to the insides of the aft BT. I would rather just build another rocket (if I simply MUST have a new mmt) than try to mod an existing rocket-----it's probably faster too.

Part of my prejudice is because my rockets are 99 percent low-power, and most are BT-20, -50, and -55 based. There just ain't enough room in there to really do any work, and the chances to ruin the rocket are just too high.

I would be interested (if someone out there really does rip out old mmts very often) in learning what the secret is: how do you do this efficiently and cleanly, especially after you have built the rocket in the first place to never come apart?
 

jflis

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Originally posted by Prowler901
Yeah Jim. How about your 5 motor cluster in the Phoenix. :D Ballanced out with the appropriate nose weight, of course. ;)

Regards,
Todd
now, *that* would be slick. An E9 with quad A10 should provide enough initial boost to get her moving. I'll have to see if I still have one around and modify it for that...
 

jflis

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There are several ways to do this, here are two that I use often: (I say often as I will also replace engine mounts that become damages or worn to extend the life of the rocket)

First one is simplistic, but works: Carefully strip off the fins by scoring the glue joint and *snaping* the fins off. Sand and clean as appropriate. Then you *cut* the lower part of the tube off, removing the engine mount with it. Add a replacement length of body tube with a stage coupler and install your new mount, attach your fins and repaint.

A more time consuming but less intrusive method is to extract the motor mount without destroying the body tube. First, remove the engine tube (leaving the centering rings in place) by lifting the inner spiral of paper with a razor knife. Glue this small tab of paper to a wood dowel with CA glue, and twisting the wood dowel unwrap the engine tube from the inside out untill it is completely removed (sometimes the paper tears and you have to repeat to get it all out)

If the centering rings are spiral wound paper, you can then remove them one at a time using the same method.

If the centering rings are fiber or paper, you can remove them one of two ways:

1) Slice the ring from the center hole to the body tube wall in several (8-10) places. :Then score the glue line *and* the inner paper of the body tube with your razor knife. Then using an appropriate tool, grab each section, one at a time, and flex back and forth until it comes loose.

2) Make a score in the glue line all the way around the ring and also lightly score the inside of the body tube. Using a wood dowel (about 1/2" or 3/4" diameter), place this along one edge of the ring and rap firmly with a mallet. Move around the ring, rapping with the mallet, until you have fractured enough of the glue joint to remove the ring.

Repeat with second ring.

Once you have both rings out, use a wood dowel of the appropriate size, wrapped in sand paper to sand the inside of the tube smooth to make it ready for the new motor mount. You may also consider coating the inside of this part of the tube with white glue or CA (or even epoxy) to protect it from any weakness the above process may have caused.

I've done all of these many times wiht a very high success rate. The key is to take your time.

hope this helps,.
jim
 

powderburner

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Jim, I can understand your approach to 'peeling' out the offending components.
Me, OTOH, I have to go and make life difficult for myself downstream somewhere by building my rockets with soaked mmt tubes and rather heavily glued CRs. You won't ever see one of MY birds come apart in mid-air! I used to use watered-down white glue to coat the insides of mmts and BTs, but have also used thin CA and other materials. At any rate, those puppies are NOT gonna peel. I tend to build these things to remain permanently assembled and be reasonably sturdy once they are finished. I don't try to make many major repairs; I find it way easier to just build new.
 

nomopbo

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prowlerguy,
Not sure if I sparked that question by mentioning that I have begun to mod my low power rockets???

What I meant was that when I buy a rocket, I have gotten confident enough to start screwin with stuff. (hee hee) I mod it from the get go. (Not even thinking anything close to the technical surgery jflis was discussing!)

nomopbo
 

jflis

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well... although I doubt I'm the *only* one here guilty of this, but I've gotten so attached to certain models (not just a model name, like (for example) the Mars Lander), but to *this* SPECIFIC mars lander, that I would *certainly* (and have many times) spend more time, effort and money rebuilding and reconditioning that very kit than would ever be needed to simply replace it.

Doing such rebuilding tends to teach you some rather exotic techniques over time... LOL

"Hello. My name is Jim and I am adicted to rockets..." :D :D :D
 

nomopbo

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Well,
I gotta say I have learned a heck of a lot more than how big an E engine is from this thread! I have thuroughly enjoyed it. I felt pretty bad asking that question to begin with...but hey... I didn't know.

Jim, YOU ARE THE MAN!
It's very cool you hang out here just like one of the guys and aren't some untouchable elite. Very humble and shows a love of the hobby. I'm not just blowing smoke up your motor mount. Very cool.

I am begining to put a few names with the user id's and have developed a lot of respect for many others just from reading the threads. (I have been lurking awhile). And as for the people that even bothered to answer such a question, thanks for taking time out for a newb.

You all ROCK...er ROCKET!!! YEAH!

Seriously,
Thanks, I know no matter what question I may have, this is the place to go!

NoMo,
out
 

jflis

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LORDY, what do we have to do so that folks don't wait *forever* before asking their questions in here???? :)

This is the most "question friendly" place in rocketry, i assure you!
 

rkt2k1

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Here ya go! :D

Excerpt from: Why is the Sky Blue Website.

Blue sky: short explanation
Blue light gets scattered (spread) around much more than all the other colors from the sun, causing the sky to appear blue.

Blue sky: a more detailed explanation
Light is made up of electromagnetic waves.

The distance between 2 crests in this wave is called the wavelength.

White light contains all the colors of the rainbow.

The amount of light scattered for any given colour depends on the wavelength of that colour.

All the colors in white light have different wavelengths.

Red light has the longest wavelength.

The wavelength of blue light is about half that of red light.

This difference in wavelength causes blue light to be scattered nearly ten times more than red light. Lord Rayleigh studied this phenomena in detail. It is caused the Tyndall effect or Rayleigh scattering.

Lord Rayleigh also calculated that even without smoke and dust in the atmosphere, the oxygen and nitrogen molecules would still cause the sky to appear blue because of scattering.

When blue light waves try to go straight through an oxygen and nitrogen molecules, its light is scattered in all directions because of this collision.

This scattered blue light is what makes the sky blue.

All other colors (with longer wavelengths than blue light) are scattered too.

Blue light's short wavelength causes it to be scattered the most.

(The shorther the wavelength of the color, the more that color gets scattered by the atmosphere)

Actually, violet has the shortest wavelength of all colors. Violet is scattered even more than blue light. However, our eyes are much more sensitive to see blue than violet, therefore we see the sky as blue.

Very little visible light is absorbed by the atmosphere.

Blue sky: Summary
Blue light's short wavelength causes it to get scattered around 10 times more by oxygen and nitrogen molecules than the longer wavelengths (like red) of the other colors visible to us.

The blue in the sky we see is scattered blue light.


Why the Sky is Blue, a Poem by John Ciardi

I don't suppose you happen to know
Why the sky is blue? It's because the snow
Takes out the white. That leaves it clean
For the trees and grass to take out the green.
Then pears and bananas start to mellow,
And bit by bit they take out the yellow.
The sunsets, of course, take out the red
And pour it into the ocean bed
Or behind the mountains in the west.
You take all that out and the rest
Couldn't be anything else but blue.
Look for yourself. You can see it's true.
 

jflis

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Originally posted by jflis

This is the most "question friendly" place in rocketry, i assure you!
told ya

:)
 

Prowler901

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Well now, this is really turning out to be quite an informative thread :D

Regards,
Todd
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by jflis
LORDY, what do we have to do so that folks don't wait *forever* before asking their questions in here????
I have to agree with Jim on this, I just don't understand why some folks seem so reluctant to offer up a post on this forum. We don't laugh at you (at least, not at very many-----OK, if you have a kinky name like 'ZippyOGiveHead' or something-----or maybe do something REALLY stupid like using the Estes ejection wadding for 'some other purpose' when you run out of TP) and everyone I have seen on TRF likes to try to help anyone with a question. So what gives?

We have around 900 people currently signed up on TRF. Almost 300 of them have never posted anything. Now of course it is not required to make any postings to join us here on TRF, but it does make me wonder why they bothered to sign up. (Another 70 or so have made one post, and then seemed to have quit) After all, you can surf and read for free and have access to all the threads, new and old, as a guest with no sign-up. So I have to assume that these 300 people intended to post something, and then for some reason decided not to.

Are we that scary?

Maybe some of you guys should tone down your cow stories.
 

corpse

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maybe do something REALLY stupid like using the Estes ejection wadding for 'some other purpose' when you run out of TP



LOL
it works better then a leaf
 

jflis

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'specially a 5 degree F leaf!!!!
 
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