Estes Argent Build Thread! I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING

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ActingLikeAKid said:
I think I'm going to glue in the fins tonight. Anything special to be careful with?
Click to expand...

Go to payloadbay. Find the fin alignment guide tool. Plug in the numbers, print the .pdf on a piece of 11/17 paper. Glue that to a piece of foam core (from Dollartree). Cut out the guide and use it for the fins. make sure to give yourself a little area to prevent yourself from gluing the fins to the guide.
 
K'Tesh said:
Go to payloadbay. Find the fin alignment guide tool. Plug in the numbers, print the .pdf on a piece of 11/17 paper. Glue that to a piece of foam core (from Dollartree). Cut out the guide and use it for the fins. make sure to give yourself a little area to prevent yourself from gluing the fins to the guide.
Click to expand...

Bad news: Just saw this; must have missed the notification. Good news: I did almost exactly that. Didn't have foam core; used the heavy cardboard bottom of a box of tangerines. Worked GREAT, pictures soon.
Also - for anyone reading this and interested in learning from my mistakes: You know how easy it is to make a line on a rocket body BEFORE the fins are on, using a doorframe? Yeah, do that for the launch lugs.
My solution, though: Use the template I built; overlay a six-fin template, mark where one of the "middle" fins would be at the bottom of the body, mark the same "middle" fin higher up on the body, connect the points, extend the line.
 
Fast solution for bracing any 2.5" tube is a pool noodle. They fit in perfectly. Used it on my guide for both fin placement and painting. Case of 50 costs 7 bucks on amazon.
 
WLViking said:
Fast solution for bracing any 2.5" tube is a pool noodle. They fit in perfectly. Used it on my guide for both fin placement and painting. Case of 50 costs 7 bucks on amazon.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'm understanding how you are using the noodle?
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
You know how easy it is to make a line on a rocket body BEFORE the fins are on, using a doorframe? Yeah, do that for the launch lugs.
My solution, though: Use the template I built; overlay a six-fin template, mark where one of the "middle" fins would be at the bottom of the body, mark the same "middle" fin higher up on the body, connect the points, extend the line.
Click to expand...

Or

You could use a four fin template. Align one of the marks of one of the four fins with one of the fins of the rocket, and the line directly opposite of that will work for you.

OR

You could press a piece of paper between two of the fins, mark where the fins come in contact with the paper. Fold it so that the marks are touching, and crease the center of the fold. That is the center between those two fins. Press the paper back in between the fins, and make a couple of marks on the body tube. Connect them up, and extend the line.
 
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For bracing, I cut off a few inches and give it a wider base as the epoxy dries. It is especially useful for painting where you can put in place it in the forward section of the tube and have much better suspension of the body while spraying and then use it to suspend the tube for drying. Keep in mind, I am new to this and this worked for me since I don't have a full shop to use.
 
my paint jobs are nothing to write home about, however I just use a dowel - about 1/2 inch or so (whatever fits thru the mmt). i paint horizontal so the other end of the stick gets put on my painting (tree) stump with some weight on top of it. pretty easy!
 
K'Tesh said:
Or

You could use a four fin template. Align one of the marks of one of the four fins with one of the fins of the rocket, and the line directly opposite of that will work for you.

OR

You could press a piece of paper between two of the fins, mark where the fins come in contact with the paper. Fold it so that the marks are touching, and crease the center of the fold. That is the center between those two fins. Press the paper back in between the fins, and make a couple of marks on the body tube. Connect them up, and extend the line.
Click to expand...
I like the way you think.

Only I was thinking about doing a paint scheme that requires me to know all the halfway points anyway.... ;)

My idea: Orange on top, dark purple on the bottom. Starting at the ejection break, taper the orange down to a point halfway between each pair of fins. Fins are purple and the purple around each fin tapers down to a point up at the ejection break.
 
I always leave the nose cone on payload sections unglued, reserving the possibility of putting an altimeter in almost any sized rocket (at least 18mm MM or up). Thus far I've just friction fitted and haven't had any pop, but I don't plan on relying on that forever.

Lately I've been thinking to just put a teabag mount in the payload section and connect the nose cone with a few inches of elastic shock cord. Then tape the nose cone for friction fit. No need to go too tight because if the cone does pop it still won't get lost. This eliminates the need for the screws (which I would probably prefer not to fiddle with at the field). The teabag mount shouldn't interfere with shoving an altimeter in there or typical payload or whatever. Obviously this is not intended for a serious A/V bay.

In the back of my mind I continue to try to come up with the "best" way to secure a nose cone without needing any loose screws, some kind of twist-lock or spring-pin system, but still just in the pondering stage.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
I like the way you think.

Only I was thinking about doing a paint scheme that requires me to know all the halfway points anyway.... ;)

My idea: Orange on top, dark purple on the bottom. Starting at the ejection break, taper the orange down to a point halfway between each pair of fins. Fins are purple and the purple around each fin tapers down to a point up at the ejection break.
Click to expand...

You do realize that I'm living this build vicariously through you since I'm in no position to build a rocket right now. Besides the large boxes of built, partially build, and unbuilt rockets sitting in storage right now, I've got a couple of Ebay scores sitting at a friend's apartment, but he's not the most mobile of people. So, I've got to wait until he can get them sent off to me, then wait for however long it takes to get over here. My local searches for rockets so far have proved fruitless (other than stomp rockets).

Oh, a few things to know about China... Presta valves are hard to find (as are 700C tubes), Pizza Hut here puts the ones in the US to shame (though the US has more actual pizzas to choose from). Just about everything you can find for purchase in China from an English language search engine will NOT be able to be shipped to China (USA? Free Shipping? Sure! China? Forget it). Oh, "make that a large", and "free refills" are not viable options for anything other than hot tea, or hot water (You don't drink cold water in China, unless you boiled it yourself, and allowed it to cool).

I've been tempted to go out and try to find a mailing tube, and pilfer some of the pink foam insulation that is meant for the new shopping center just down the road. Just to get something to try and build.
 
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K'Tesh said:
You do realize that I'm living this build vicariously through you since I'm in no position to build a rocket right now. Besides the large boxes of built, partially build, and unbuilt rockets sitting in storage right now, I've got a couple of Ebay scores sitting at a friend's apartment, but he's not the most mobile of people. So, I've got to wait until he can get them sent off to me, then wait for however long it takes to get over here. My local searches for rockets so far have proved fruitless (other than stomp rockets).

Oh, a few things to know about China... Presta valves are hard to find (as are 700C tubes), Pizza Hut here puts the ones in the US to shame (though the US has more actual pizzas to choose from). Just about everything you can find for purchase in China from an English language search engine will NOT be able to be shipped to China (USA? Free Shipping? Sure! China? Forget it). Oh, "make that a large", and "free refills" are not viable options for anything other than hot tea, or hot water (You don't drink cold water in China, unless you boiled it yourself, and allowed it to cool).

I've been tempted to go out and try to find a mailing tube, and pilfer some of the pink foam insulation that is meant for the new shopping center just down the road. Just to get something to try and build.
Click to expand...

Fascinating....Did you bring a 700c/Presta equipped bike over? Weird that - though most tubes are made in China, I think - you can't get them there. Just hop a bullet train to the Kenda factory! ;)i
I'm glad to support your vicarious build! The scale of the Argent still gives me pause. My other rockets have been loosely stacked in a box that I take when we're going to launch, but that's not something that's viable for something almost as tall as an adult human. Considering some sort of wall mount....
 
OK, an actual update! Yesterday I bit the bullet and put the fins in. Used 5 minute "gel" epoxy, which is thicker than the other stuff, which seemed to work well for double-dipping. What I learned:
-Using a fin template glued to a board is awesome.
-Double-dipping is easy. You'll need more epoxy than you think.
-Wooden coffee stirrers are perfect for stirring epoxy, applying it, and scraping down the joints where the external fillets will go.
-I really should have bought 15 minute epoxy.
Other more mundane stuff: I decided against all the advice I've been given to attach the nose cone permanently. It was a loose fit in the BT and I like the look of an NC that's smoothed into a BT (as opposed to something with and obvious join point). Also I knew that if I punched holes in the rocket, I'd stress about getting everything perfectly lined up, then it wouldn't, and I'd be frustrated. So in it went!

At this point the only thing between me and flight is putting on some fillets and attaching the parachute and acquiring an engine. Oh, and a nomex blanket. Paint will happen; I'd like it to happen before it launches but it's not a necessity.
The template, ready to go:
IMG_0652.jpg
Everything all laid out... I actually went through the fin assembly once with no glue, pantomiming the gluing, just to see how I'd do in terms of curing time for the glue. Overkill? Maybe, but it helped settle my nerves.
IMG_0654.jpg
Mixing the glue....
IMG_0655.jpg
Done! The business end.... (I glued on the motor retainer)
IMG_0656.jpg
looking flight-ready....
IMG_0658.jpg
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
Fascinating....Did you bring a 700c/Presta equipped bike over? Weird that - though most tubes are made in China, I think - you can't get them there. Just hop a bullet train to the Kenda factory! ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, my bicycle is here with me... Back in China where it started. I've found 2 bike shops, and neither of them have what I'd call a repair shop (both have tool boxes that they use, but no stands, or dedicated bike mechanics.

NJR3zXd.jpg
 
Did some external fillets with epoxy, then I'm covering them with JBWeld "kwikwood" - which is an epoxy putty. LOVE this stuff. Easy to work with, and you can smooth it with a wet finger.
e854877b-9a53-4b93-98e0-d2c9560de6d7.jpg
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
Did some external fillets with epoxy, then I'm covering them with JBWeld "kwikwood" - which is an epoxy putty. LOVE this stuff. Easy to work with, and you can smooth it with a wet finger.
View attachment 279187
Click to expand...

Epoxy putty fillets are quick and easy to do, but are well known hard landing crack hazards. Sand all underlying surfaces well to ensure adhesion.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
um....
but I did dip it in water; wasn't sticking my finger in my mouth.
*checks MSDS*
ok. Just irritation. And my fingers aren't irritated... So I think I'm good. ;)
Click to expand...

The sensitivity comes with time, my father who owned and worked a cultured marble shop and also built custom tubs and showers has issues with epoxy and polyester resins to this day if it gets on his skin.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
um....
but I did dip it in water; wasn't sticking my finger in my mouth.
*checks MSDS*
ok. Just irritation. And my fingers aren't irritated... So I think I'm good. ;)
Click to expand...

People can develop serious epoxy allergies from exposure to epoxy, even skin contact. I'm not familiar with the product you are using and haven't seen the MSDS, but if it says "epoxy", I'd avoid contact. I might be over cautious, but I don't like messing with potentially hazardous chemicals. Personally, if a build doesn't require epoxy, I don't use it. But when I do use it, I wear nitrile gloves and avoid getting it anywhere on my skin.
 
neil_w said:
I always leave the nose cone on payload sections unglued, reserving the possibility of putting an altimeter in almost any sized rocket (at least 18mm MM or up). Thus far I've just friction fitted and haven't had any pop, but I don't plan on relying on that forever.

Lately I've been thinking to just put a teabag mount in the payload section and connect the nose cone with a few inches of elastic shock cord. Then tape the nose cone for friction fit. No need to go too tight because if the cone does pop it still won't get lost. This eliminates the need for the screws (which I would probably prefer not to fiddle with at the field). The teabag mount shouldn't interfere with shoving an altimeter in there or typical payload or whatever. Obviously this is not intended for a serious A/V bay.

In the back of my mind I continue to try to come up with the "best" way to secure a nose cone without needing any loose screws, some kind of twist-lock or spring-pin system, but still just in the pondering stage.
Click to expand...

On my Sahara (Part Argent, Ventris section, Partizon fins), I noticed the transition has molded in shockcord loops on both sides. I'd guess Estes uses the same transition on the Argent and the Ventris, just reversed. I tied a loop of cord to the transition before I glued it to the payload section, then tied it to the nosecone. The nosecone is friction fit with a bit of masking tape, but I don't have to worry about losing it. Should work on the Argent, too.
 
gna said:
On my Sahara (Part Argent, Ventris section, Partizon fins), I noticed the transition has molded in shockcord loops on both sides. I'd guess Estes uses the same transition on the Argent and the Ventris, just reversed. I tied a loop of cord to the transition before I glued it to the payload section, then tied it to the nosecone. The nosecone is friction fit with a bit of masking tape, but I don't have to worry about losing it. Should work on the Argent, too.
Click to expand...

That's a really, really slick idea.
 
OK, paint question. This is a big project and I don't want to **** it up.

Based on some very lightweight reading, I think I want to do Rusto Bonding Primer first, particularly on the plastic bits so that the rest of the stuff sticks to it.

Up after that (yes, primer on primer! But there's logic....)

....Dupli-Color Sandable primer. For filling in what I missed on the spirals. Several coats with some good sanding between.

Finally the color: Duplicolor Orange Mist (kind of a coppery orange) and Testors Purplicious. They're both lacquers, so should (I HOPE!!!) play well together.

Am I missing anything important? Am I making a huge mistake? Because of my planned paint scheme, I'm planning ont putting on the Testors over the Duplicolor....
 
Also my 808 arrived today. It's tiny! It's lightweight! It takes pictures reminiscent of webcams circa 2001!
 
Personally, I like the results I get from Rusto's filler primer then bondo for the spirals. I stick with Rusto for the remainder (unless there's a reason not to, such as matching a scale paint scheme). I can't help you with Duplicolor, I haven't played with it.

One experiment that I did was to paint a piece of scrap plastic sign (you could use a spare garage sale sign) with the different primers that I had. I first masked off strips for each primer, allowed them to fully dry (according to their manufacturer's recommendations (plus some)). Then I masked it again perpendicular to the strips of primer, and painted the desired color over it. This allowed me to know if XYZ's primer would work with ABC's paint (or not), and also give me a good idea of what the exact final color would be. I marked down each primer, and each finish coat, but didn't sand between coats. Should I need to in the future repaint something, I can use this color chart to match the old paints to the new (baring fading).
 
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I like that idea. I think the only thing to do with my proposed scheme is just bite the bullet & try it. I don't *think* there should be a problem with the primers playing together - I mean, I think kind of part of the point of primer is that it's a good thing for other stuff to stick to - even other primers..... One thing I am going to do, though, is - like you suggested - take a piece of cardboard (and/or plastic if I can find some scrap) and do each layer on the cardboard before it hits the rocket.

I have trepidation because I've had a couple of ... incidents where I've horrible, horrible wrinkling.
 
ActingLikeAKid said:
OK, paint question. This is a big project and I don't want to **** it up.

Based on some very lightweight reading, I think I want to do Rusto Bonding Primer first, particularly on the plastic bits so that the rest of the stuff sticks to it.

Up after that (yes, primer on primer! But there's logic....)

....Dupli-Color Sandable primer. For filling in what I missed on the spirals. Several coats with some good sanding between.

Finally the color: Duplicolor Orange Mist (kind of a coppery orange) and Testors Purplicious. They're both lacquers, so should (I HOPE!!!) play well together.

Am I missing anything important? Am I making a huge mistake? Because of my planned paint scheme, I'm planning ont putting on the Testors over the Duplicolor....
Click to expand...

I'm a huge fan of the Testors One Coat Lacquer paints as well. Might I suggest the Fiery Orange. I painted my Sahara with it and it came out fantastic! That way, you'll be using the same brand of paints. Just a thought...
 

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