Estes Alpha on 24MM motor and other silliness.

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Here is what you want: Low thrust long burn, won't shred balsa fins as long as you use some decent fillets. Carefully remove the glassine layer where the fins will attach, about 1/16" wider than the fin root thickness.
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...st/24mm_Motors/Apogee_Medalist_Motor_E6-8_1pk

Bonus: lower speed means lower dynamic drag and should produce higher altitudes. Thrust curve says the E6 burns for 5.8 seconds. The closest to that is the Estes E9 at 3.1 seconds.

To the OP
I would add that epoxy is not stronger than wood glue when joining wood to paper (it's also heavier). You want some weight though for inertia (difference between throwing a baseball vs a wiffle ball sort of thing) but you want that up front not aft for balance too. Keep running sims and find that optimum weight.
 
Actually I did it slightly differently: I dribbled some thin CA into the end of the tube, and then mopped it to spread it around. Caution: thin CA will roll right down the tube and out the other end before you even realize it. Gary's method of soaking the sponge first might have worked better.

I did not perceive any brittleness to the treated tube; the CA was not soaked all the way through. YMMV. Practicing on a scrap tube could be worthwhile.

Great advise.
One more point to consider - wood glue (e.g.: TiteBond II) works best when it can soak into the fibers of the two surfaces you are gluing. Once you CA the inner tube, you should us epoxy (and no longer the wood glue) to attach the motor mount. Same goes for any other elements (harness anchor, etc) that you might have otherwise attached with TB2.

Otherwise, I always treat the ends of the tubes with thin CA on low-power (Estes) rockets. Pour some around the perimeter, spread around with a napkin, and wipe of any excess.

Also, a body tube is like a fume cannon: keep your face away from the top end, despite your desire to see what you're doing. If I were doing it now I'd use my BSI SuperGold which has no fumes at all, and gives an extra few seconds to work with as well.

I've noticed that the rougher / the lower quality the tube, the more it fumes up when exposed to epoxy.
Not sure about the causation, but the correlation is pretty strong.

+1 for BSI SuperGold to minimize the irritating fumes:
https://www.erockets.biz/bsi-121-cyanoacrylate-ca-1-2oz-super-thin-gold-gold-label/
 
What does "tip to tip" with the fins mean?

It usually means apply fiberglass (or carbon fiber) from the tip of one fin, over the body tube, to the tip of the adjacent fin. Like this:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...motors-with-modifications.159420/post-2000400
 
we bored out a super alpha to fit 29mm, no record breaker but tons of fun

the body tube imploded on a medium-speed motor and was replaced to the same spec, but then the whole deal got a light fiberglassing
 
This is where I would speculate that applying a coating of CA to the inside of the BT would give it some measure of protection against both ejection blasts and subsequent moisture absorption.
Sodium silicate aka water glass. Much easier to apply than CA and gives the same effect.
 
I flew an Estes E2X Generic with a D10-7W. I stripped every gram off of that thing I could - the 1" long heavy green centering ring replaced with lightweight rings, motor hook removed, etc. App. 38 grams painted - best I could get with plastic fin can and cone, no nose weight required. I also air foiled the plastic edges. Thought about removing some fin span too, but didn't in the end. That thing got it, you are gonna laugh, Alpha is WAY lighter. I did have some tube damage directly above the motor mount. Got a suggestion from Apogee that it is a rare issue, and that it might have been possible that I used too much wadding, holding in the charge for too long. I don't specifically remember how much wadding I used. Either way, CyA is light. I used the plastic fin can to help get the thing back, it is durable enough to allow a 4x40 mylar streamer and the ground thump, and thus easy to see. I can snap a pic if you are interested. If you are really paranoid, JB Weld pro thinned with lacquer thinner or tech grade isopropyl may also work. I am not going to worry about it unless it happens again.

Cheers / Robert
 
Interesting. Does the water in the solution not harm the tube before it evaporates?
Not that I've seen. I use it to fire-proof paper mortars in fireworks. I dunk the tube in a tub of it, pull it out and set aside to dry. Hardens the tube and makes it fire-proof, or very fire-resistant. Cures with CO2.
 
I've flown a Mini Fat Boy on an AT G55W and G110T. Both were a hoot. Lost it on the G110T flight. 15/10 would do again. Oh wait - I have another one built and ready to go :)

I did a simple layer of 2oz tip to tip on the fins, but that was the only reinforcement I did. I might pick up an Alpha just to do the same thing - because, why not? :) Maybe paper the fins and let it rip. I will see if I can squeeze a tracker in the cone. I did just get a TeleMini the other day. :)
 
That would shred before it left the rod. :)

I definitely agree with papering, and using the instruction sheet should work fine.

You could even do something like tip-to-tip with the paper, which should help the fins stay attached.
The face card comes “in the bag”, and the launch set comes in the cardboard box. Thus using the face card or the box to “paper” the fins might be within the rules, and likely stronger than using the instruction sheet.
 

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Water glass solution is sodium silicate dissolved in water, is it not?

Weigh solution when done boiling. Only water has evaporated, based on laws of mass. No quantum calculations here.
So you can safely subtract 500 grams from 1100 (if you used 600 grams of water) to find your water content and therefore the solution dilution.
Sorry about that, My mistake .
Frank
 
This is reminding me of a few years back when I built an Estes Wizard (bought a bulk pack just for this purpose) and flew on a D21. I was trying to see if I could go supersonic on a D; per Rocksim I couldn't get there but was in the transonic region anyway. I can't remember how many G's it was pulling off the rod, but it held together (fins were papered) and the last I saw of it at the CMASS launch where this was flown was the sparkle of the mylar streamer way up in the sky but not a chance of recovering it.
 
Sodium silicate aka water glass. Much easier to apply than CA and gives the same effect.
Gee, I just today had the thought (again) of using water glass to protect a stuffer tube from ejection gas and particles, since they are particularly dense before it opens into the larger body tube. So I searched the forum for mentions of it, and here's a thread not even three months old.

Thanks for the approval to proceed.
 
There are a ton of options depending on what you have available and your end goal. You can use water glass if you have it, thin CA, thinned PVA, NC lacquer sanding sealer (Deft brand is good), Minwax polyurethane (oil based) or polycrylic (water based)....so many options that give the same basic effect.
 
I've been toying with this idea myself for a while, to see how hard I could push an alpha III, the e6 medalist seems like the way to go, in terms of getting it back, the bright fluorescent tracking powder, and replacing the chute with a long metallic mylar streamer for visibility is probably the way to go.
 
I've been toying with this idea myself for a while, to see how hard I could push an alpha III, the e6 medalist seems like the way to go, in terms of getting it back, the bright fluorescent tracking powder, and replacing the chute with a long metallic mylar streamer for visibility is probably the way to go.

considering giving this a shot a bama blastoff
 
There are a ton of options depending on what you have available and your end goal. You can use water glass if you have it, thin CA, thinned PVA, NC lacquer sanding sealer (Deft brand is good), Minwax polyurethane (oil based) or polycrylic (water based)....so many options that give the same basic effect.
Fair enough, water glass is just what I was wondering about at the moment.

NC lacquer?!? That stuff is intended to be a flammable adhesive. After the acetone evaporates, the last thing I want as flame protection is a layer of nitrocellulose.
 
I actually just got started on this build. After some clarification of the rules with everyone we are allowing papering of the fins. Found an alpha at HL on Saturday and picked it up cheap so I ordered a long length coupler from BMS. It arrived yesterday so I wasted no time getting started.

The coupler was cut to length taking into account the space needed for the motor and the nose cone shoulder. I friction fit an old motor case into the tube to act as a stop. A little thin epoxy was applied to the inside and tube and the coupler was slid in from the top. The nose cone was used to press it down until it touched the top of the spent motor case. The motor case and nosecone were removed and the tub left to dry.

I added .25oz of weight to the nose based on the SIM in OR. With the Apogee E6-8 that gives me 1.01 cal. so it should fly fine. I'll be papering the fins with the instructions in the kit after soaking them in a good coating of thin CA. Due to the reduced ID I’m not running a shock cord on this one. I've found that 10ft of 100lb Kevlar fits nicely and I'm waiting on my foil streamer from Apogee.

Painting this one chrome and with the normal red and blue fins and nose cone. Should have it wrapped up by Monday just in time to make the shipment of rockets headed out to AZ.
 
if you want a shot at seeing it a apogee give this a shot:
https://www.apogeerockets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=42_73_304&products_id=1957
tracking powder, I put a spoonful in a piece of coffee filter roll it up and put in on top of the chute. puts out a nice cloud. gives you an indication of where to start looking for the streamer.

ive also heard of guys using tempra paint powder as well as its a lil cheaper and locally available at art/craft stores.

Avoid baby powder like the plague unless your 100% sure its completely talc based
 
Best shred I've ever had was a PSII Nike Smoke on an H163. Once those plastic fins start to flex, it's all over... I would expect that an Alpha with the 24mm/6G G65 wouldn't fare much better.
 
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