Estes Alien Explorer - Newway clone build thread

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

neil_w

OpenRocketeer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
17,918
Reaction score
14,123
Location
Northern NJ
Introduction

The Alien Explorer was introduced in the 1981 Estes catalog. The first time I saw it I thought it was just a pointless variation on the USS Andromeda, but over time I've come to appreciate its own unique qualities. Also lately I'm kind of digging the whole "alien spacecraft" vibe. This build is of a clone of the Estes kit made by Newway. I'm unclear if this was ever actually released for general sale, but I have one (thank you @Bluegrass Rocket) and I'm gonna build it. My only quibble with the original is the green base color of the face card paint scheme, so I'll be doing a metallic gray instead.

I don't think I've ever seen a build thread for this one, so here it is.

Does anyone know who designed it? The Andromeda was a Wayne Kellner design, but I don't know if he did this one as well.

1737411826664.png
 
Last edited:
Tube Prep

There's a lot of inches of body tube to prep for this kit.

I have given up on my practice of covering the entire tube with CWF, now I'm back to just doing the seams. Didn't like what the moisture in the CWF was doing to the tubes.

Before primering I masked off the areas on the main body that will be covered by outer tubes.
tubes.jpeg
 
That shows in a number of your own designs. And it could make you a good customer for Flis Kits.
Unfortunately most of the Fliskits models do not resonate with me. I find them generally to be over-designed with the construction, and under-designed with the graphics.

Plus I rarely do kits, this one being an obvious exception.
 
Fin Prep

Plenty of interesting wood for this kit is provided on two identical sheets:

fin sheets.jpeg

To get started, I cut out everything, and assembled the two-piece large fins (I think they call them "sails" in the instructions.) These are pretty sizeable (about 6 1/2" tall, judging from the markings on the mat).
vertical fins 1.jpeg

What followed was a whole pile of finicky label-papering:
fins-papered.jpeg

I didn't know how well that was going to work with the various little slots. As it turned out, everything came out fine. These slots which will fit over the centering rings look pretty messy up close, but should be totally fine in the final assembly.
fin-ring-slots.jpeg

Finally, filler/primer:
fins-primed.jpeg

I did better this time not over-sanding any of the fins and scuffing the paper.
 
You're cruising right along with this one. Are you still using Avery label paper? The fins look great!

-Bob
 
Pod Ion Tube Interiors

I decided to repeat the procedure previously used successfully on the Angled Invader for pre-painting the ion tube interiors.

1) two coats of flat white
ion tubes white.jpeg

2) Two coats of CraftSmart fluorescent orange:
ion tubes orange 1.jpeg

3) And finally, two coats of DecoArt Torrid Orange

ion tubes orange 2.jpeg

As before, the results are very nice, and this is a really easy sequence (and the paint is cheap). I highly recommend this regimen for anyone trying to get bright glowy tube interiors.

And also as before, the photos don't capture the fluorescence of the orange. It's quite bright in person.
 
Fin Assembly

These fin assemblies are super weird and I love them.


First cut 4 short pieces of 1/8" dowel, and round the ends off. That last part is not fun... trying to hold those tiny pieces while sanding is brutal. I got them kinda-sorta roundish and then gave up (it's not really important anyway).
fin-dowels.jpeg

The dowels are then used to join together the two main fin pieces together:
sail-assembly.jpeg
As is often the case, the pieces are held against a straight edge to ensure proper alignment. This time I wised up and clamped my straightedge to the workbench.

The instructions tell you to center the dowels in the fin slots, so they'll stick out evenly on either side. I found that to be an unreasonable request, because you want to ensure that they're straight, and therefore place them on the bench, and therefore the back is going to be flush with the fins and the front will stick out a bit. But it is so slight that it hardly matters.

Antennae are glued to the top, weirdly extending *backwards* from the fins, and not aligned with the edge of the fin. Lots of dowels in this build.
sail-antennae.jpeg

Then it's time to pull out the cardstock details sheet:
cardstock-details.jpeg

I suspect this is the exact same sheet from the Andromeda. I'm ambivalent about these bits but wanted to stick with the official build instructions. The four rectangular pieces up top are sandwiched around the top of the fin assembly and antennae like so:
sail-assembly-finished.jpeg

Small TBII fillets were applied to every seam to fill gaps and whatnot. The cardstock pieces do not get filler/primer.

And there you have it. These definitely don't look like anything I've ever seen on another rocket.
 
It strikes me as odd that they want the ends of the dowels rounded, rather than squarely filling the notches the go into.
My assumption was so that the excess sticking out from the fins (the dowel is 1/8", the fins are 3/32") wouldn't be a sharp edge. But in that case you could just bevel the ends of the dowels a bit on two sides, which I think would be much easier.
 
More Dowels

Two 2" dowel pieces are attached to each little... fin thing. This is the sort of goofy detail that never occurs to me for my own designs. Sometimes I find it to be a bit much (Centuri SSV Scorpion, ugh), and this is sort of on the edge, but I still like it.

These guys surprised me by passing the "stands up straight on the bench" test. Well, after I did a bit more sanding to square off one of the roots.

antennae.jpeg
 
Motor Mount
or, "Rockets are fun!"

Well this was an interesting adventure. As before, I am following the instructions (which are the original Estes instructions, I believe, with actual words to go along with the pictures, it's glorious).

Step 1: centering rings

The two centering rings are the wound-paper type, with the one in the rear split to accommodate the motor hook. Standard stuff. I glued each one on, sticking one of the pieces of BT50 around the split ring to ensure it stays tight against core tube.
mmt-1.jpeg

Step 2: Ummm.....

mmt-2.jpeg

I was trying to see if I had missed something in the instructions. Nope! It turns out that the original kit did not use one of those retainer rings, it specifed cutting a piece of paper (or maybe cardstock) and gluing it around the hook.
mmt-3.jpeg
I went with good old electrical tape instead, one wrap close to the rear and one over the front of the hook.
mmt-5.jpeg

Sharp-eyed readers will note something missing from that step 13: a thrust ring/motor block. I double- and triple-checked the instructions but confirmed it was not there. I'm not too fond of letting the top of the hook handle this task on its own, even though it would probably suffice for the handful of flights this rocket is likely to see. Normally I would insert the hook and then push the motor block in from above, pushing it against the top of the hook. But given the very long length of the BT20, that was not an option. So pushed it in from the rear with a motor, trying very hard to position it *just* above the slot for the hook. I think I got it pretty good.
mmt-4.jpeg
Honestly, that picture doesn't prove anything... but the in any event the motor is not going anywhere.

Step 3: WTF

I tested the fit first... snug but seemed OK. Then I applied Elmer's Glue-All to the front ring and the rear inside of the BT50 and slid it on. It proved very difficult and I couldn't quite figure out what was happening. Then I looked in front and saw this (sorry for the fuzzy pic, I was rushing):
mmt-6.jpeg

What I was witnessing was that the ring had delaminated, and the outer portion had pushed out of the way. After a moment of consideration I concluded that there was going to be no way to fix that, so I cut off the outer tube, discarded it, and regrouped.

mmt-7.jpeg

Has that ever happened to anyone before? It seemed cuckoo-pants to me.

Fortunately, there was another tube in the kit of the exact same size that was already spiral-filled and primed, so I was ready to go with a replacement. I glued the front ring back together (remember the inner part was glued quite solidly to the core tube, so I couldn't just remove the whole thing) and this time sanded down the two rings to make the fit a bit less snug. Applied the Elmer's and slid on the tube and...
mmt-8.jpeg
It froze about 2mm before reaching its destination. I give myself credit for not simply throwing the whole thing in the garbage at this point; I was pretty steamed but taking deep breaths and trying to say calm. There was absolutely nothing to be done about this, once it's frozen it is irreversible. Also important to remember that I'm working with BT20 and BT50, both of which are pretty flimsy, so I had to be very careful not to manhandle it trying to force it into position.

Step 4: Damage Control

After resigning myself to the fact that that spot was just not going to look great, I decided that I needed to at least *try* to make it better. After several rounds of very carefully applied and shaped CWF, I actually got a decent result:
mmt-10.jpeg
I applied some thin CA to harden it up, and considered my job done. The tube hangs over the end of the rocket a bit but that's not a problem.

Oh, and then I cut myself a new piece of BT50 and filled and primed it to replace the one I destroyed.

So there you are, a long 9-picture post on constructing an 18mm motor mount. You're welcome.
 
I glued each one on, sticking one of the pieces of BT50 around the split ring to ensure it stays tight against core tube.
View attachment 691844
Gutsy move, using the filled and sanded tube for this. I'd have used a bit of scrap just in case there's any escaped glue causing trouble and I have to cut it off. But it seems you got away with it.

so I cut off the outer tube, discarded it, and regrouped.
Never mind.

Has that ever happened to anyone before? It seemed cuckoo-pants to me.
I have had one split circumferentially like that, but I noticed it in time to avoid trouble. By pure luck I noticed it, I assure you. So I applied a couple of drops of thin CA and it was fine.

After resigning myself to the fact that that spot was just not going to look great, I decided that I needed to at least *try* to make it better. After several rounds of very carefully applied and shaped CWF, I actually got a decent result:
View attachment 691859
Decent result, I concur. If you'd asked, I would have advised cutting away the protruding part of the ring. Great care would have to have been taken down at the tube, but I'm sure you could have managed it. If you want to, you still could.
 
Decent result, I concur. If you'd asked, I would have advised cutting away the protruding part of the ring. Great care would have to have been taken down at the tube, but I'm sure you could have managed it. If you want to, you still could.
That would have been hard to do I think, but I won't ever know because I ain't touching it now.
 
Step 3: WTF

I tested the fit first... snug but seemed OK. Then I applied Elmer's Glue-All to the front ring and the rear inside of the BT50 and slid it on. It proved very difficult and I couldn't quite figure out what was happening. Then I looked in front and saw this (sorry for the fuzzy pic, I was rushing):
View attachment 691850

What I was witnessing was that the ring had delaminated, and the outer portion had pushed out of the way. After a moment of consideration I concluded that there was going to be no way to fix that, so I cut off the outer tube, discarded it, and regrouped.

View attachment 691854

Has that ever happened to anyone before? It seemed cuckoo-pants to me.

Fortunately, there was another tube in the kit of the exact same size that was already spiral-filled and primed, so I was ready to go with a replacement. I glued the front ring back together (remember the inner part was glued quite solidly to the core tube, so I couldn't just remove the whole thing) and this time sanded down the two rings to make the fit a bit less snug. Applied the Elmer's and slid on the tube and...
View attachment 691855
It froze about 2mm before reaching its destination. I give myself credit for not simply throwing the whole thing in the garbage at this point; I was pretty steamed but taking deep breaths and trying to say calm. There was absolutely nothing to be done about this, once it's frozen it is irreversible. Also important to remember that I'm working with BT20 and BT50, both of which are pretty flimsy, so I had to be very careful not to manhandle it trying to force it into position.

Step 4: Damage Control

After resigning myself to the fact that that spot was just not going to look great, I decided that I needed to at least *try* to make it better. After several rounds of very carefully applied and shaped CWF, I actually got a decent result:
View attachment 691859
I applied some thin CA to harden it up, and considered my job done. The tube hangs over the end of the rocket a bit but that's not a problem.

Oh, and then I cut myself a new piece of BT50 and filled and primed it to replace the one I destroyed.

So there you are, a long 9-picture post on constructing an 18mm motor mount. You're welcome.

People call me crazy and tell me it's overkill but this right here is why I build almost everything with epoxy these days. The epoxy soaks into the materials and makes the individual parts stronger. Building older kits it's not uncommon for those old rings or even the body tubes to delaminate. Using the epoxy keeps them together. It also prevents the grabbing that occurs when putting parts together.

I'm not as fast as I once was so having that extra minute to move stuff around it greatly appreciated these days.
 
People call me crazy and tell me it's overkill but this right here is why I build almost everything with epoxy these days. The epoxy soaks into the materials and makes the individual parts stronger. Building older kits it's not uncommon for those old rings or even the body tubes to delaminate. Using the epoxy keeps them together. It also prevents the grabbing that occurs when putting parts together.

I'm not as fast as I once was so having that extra minute to move stuff around it greatly appreciated these days.
Interesting. That would be excellent for use on single wall fin attachments to soak through the cardboard tube.​
Is there any documented evidence that the epoxy soaks into the cardboard / wood better than wood glue or is this just personal opinion?​
 
Last edited:
People call me crazy and tell me it's overkill but this right here is why I build almost everything with epoxy these days. The epoxy soaks into the materials and makes the individual parts stronger. Building older kits it's not uncommon for those old rings or even the body tubes to delaminate. Using the epoxy keeps them together. It also prevents the grabbing that occurs when putting parts together.

I'm not as fast as I once was so having that extra minute to move stuff around it greatly appreciated these days.
I do sometimes use epoxy for this sort of thing, but really thought I had this under control with the white glue (obviously I was wrong). For my scratch builds I mostly use 1/8" lite ply rings, which don't really present any sort of freezing hazard. In this case was just using the paper rings that came with the kit... for the remainder of the build things will be different, as you will see in future entries.

Not sure I buy the "soaking in" argument, though. The ring that delaminated here did so several layers underneath the surface... no way epoxy was going to soak in that far. The only fix was to glue the ring back together. And anyway, PVA glues also soak into porous surfaces and harden things up (but only at the very surface.
 
Interesting.​
Is there any documented evidence that the epoxy soaks into the cardboard / wood better than wood glue or is this just personal opinion?​

Has anyone documented it? I'm not sure but in personal experience with my own builds, I can see it wicking into the materials which doesn't really happen with wood glue.

There have been times where I've needed to do repairs and cut something apart and I can see where the Epoxy has soaked completely through an item. The downside is that epoxy makes repairs more difficult as it's harder to cut through or get the parts to come apart.

A really good visual example of this was on my NewWay Red Max Build. This first pic is of the fins attached. These are not fillets. This was only a single bead of epoxy on the root edge of the fin. Once heated, you can see how far the epoxy wicked into the body around the fins and up the fin itself.

11.jpg

In this second pic where the last fin was attached, we can see the epoxy soaked into the tube and up actually wicked up the fin itself.

12.5.jpg


I've also coated 3/32 balsa fins in epoxy when the wood is soft. If you do both sides and try to cut into it afterward the epoxy had soaked all the way through the material. Unfortunately, I don't have a pic of this but I get one during my next balsa fin build.
 
Last edited:
Not sure I buy the "soaking in" argument, though. The ring that delaminated here did so several layers underneath the surface... no way epoxy was going to soak in that far. The only fix was to glue the ring back together. And anyway, PVA glues also soak into porous surfaces and harden things up (but only at the very surface.
When you do the fillets around the ring it soaks in through the sides. If you used it only for at the connection to the tube, I agree 100% it would not have wicked up more than a couple of layer and would not have prevented this.
 
Last edited:
Has anyone documented it? I'm not sure but in personal experience with my own builds, I can see it wicking into the materials which doesn't really happen with wood glue.

There have been times where I've needed to do repairs and cut something apart and I can see where the Epoxy has soaked completely through an item. The downside is that epoxy makes repairs more difficult as it's harder to cut through or get the parts to come apart.

A really good visual example of this was on my NewWay Red Max Build. This first pic is of the fins attached. These are not fillets. This was only a single bead of epoxy on the root edge of the fin. Once heated, you can see how far the epoxy wicked into the body around the fins and up the fin itself.

View attachment 692082

In this second pic where the last fin was attached, we can see the epoxy soaked into the tube and up actually wicked up the fin itself.

View attachment 692083
What brand / type of epoxy are you using? I'll have to try this.​
 
A tube that is long

Two 18" BT20s are joined together with a coupler.
long-bt.jpeg

That is a looooong piece of BT20. Too long IMHO, so I cut it into two pieces, right at the front of where the mid tube will go (at the white arrow). More on this later.
 
Last edited:
Front Tube Assembly

Two centering rings connect the forward BT50 to the front of the BT20 (now a reasonable-sized piece, after cutting the long piece in two). This is where the kevlar shock anchor will go.

So I started filing a notch into one of the centering rings, and...
front rings 3.jpeg
...it delaminated. At this point I got "smart" and checked the rest of the rings in the kit, and sure enough, all of them had the exact same problem. I chucked them all, because I have plenty of those of my own.

For the aft ring, I decided to use 1/8" lite ply rings I had too many of. If I have one complaint about BMS it's that the inner hole on their centering rings tend to be a bit large, resulting in a fit that is looser than I'm comfortable with. So I put a wrap of label paper around the mounting location for the ring (sorry for fuzzy picture):
front rings 1.jpeg

Then, for reasons lost in the mist of time, I used *two* rings to create a nice solid anchor. I used my 3D-printed ring pusher to ensure correct alignment of the rings on the tube. That thing has worked out pretty well for me so far. It is not easy to get those flimsy rings on straight, especially when you're working against a rapidly-setting glue.
front rings 2.jpeg

Although I don't know what possessed me to put two rings there, I will say that it oddly satisfying to smear some glue in there and push the two rings together.

Anyway, I did use one of my own paper rings up front, and wrapped around the Kevlar leader. The 4' of 1/8" elastic included in the kit was attached to the Kevlar.
front-kevlar.jpeg

And then the outer tube was glued on. I used white glue, but there were two differences this time:
1) I really made sure the fit wasn't too tight.
2) I ended at the two wood rings, and they were rock solid (no delamination possibilities.

The tube went on quickly and without any drama.

Finally, I checked how well I had set the length of the Kevlar...
front-shock-cord.jpeg

Not as well as I would have liked. I made it about 1/4" too long, right into zipper territory. I'll have to put some sort of protective sheath around it. I had wanted the elastic knot to line up with the edge, because I'm pretty sure that wouldn't zipper the tube, but I just missed. Note due to camera angle it looks perfect, but actually is the very top of the Kevlar, just below the knot, that is in line with the rim of the tube. Oh well.

Replacing this shock cord would be very difficult. Fortunately I don't think it's likely to be necessary, given the small number of flights this rocket is going to see.
 
I used my 3D-printed ring pusher to ensure correct alignment of the rings on the tube. That thing has worked out pretty well for me so far. It is not easy to get those flimsy rings on straight, especially when you're working against a rapidly-setting glue.
View attachment 692253
I love that. I may have to make myself one of those. Well, two of those, one for BT-20 and one for BT-50. And probably one for 29 mm MMTs too.
 
Finishing the Airframe

Previously I mentioned that I cut the long BT20 into two pieces... that was the first part of my plan to make this whole rocket come apart into two pieces for transportation. I couldn't imagine this thing surviving a car trip under typical conditions.

The plan starts with a simple twist-lock mechanism I designed fairly hurriedly in TinkerCad... a bit *too* hurriedly, as it turns out, because I needed a couple of iterations to get it right. Thanks to @Bruiser for coming through with a very nice print of the v2.0 locking ring, and @NTP2 for also offering to do the print for me. Here's the design:
twist-lock-cad.png

The piece on the left adds a pin that sticks through a coupler. Two things I did not anticipate were (a) how hard it would be to cut a clean hole into a coupler, and (b) how hard it would be to insert that piece from behind. I wrapped some tape, sticky-side out, around a stick and used it as an applicator:
twist-coupler-pin-applicator.jpeg

Then I applied epoxy to the piece and eventually managed to stab it through the hole. Here's how it looks from inside:
twist-couper-with-pin-1.jpeg

And here it is installed into the front tube assembly:
twist-coupler-installed.jpeg

The locking ring takes the place of the forward centering ring on the airframe's midsection. It also takes the place of 3/8" of BT20, so I cut the tube down a bit and installed the two rings:
mid-rings.jpeg

Here I had come to my senses and only used a single ply ring in the rear (along with, once again, a wrap of label paper on the inside).

Then I glued the tube on with epoxy, and reminded myself of why I normally don't use epoxy for this... messy. Anyway:
mid-finished.jpeg

And now the front piece locks into place like so:
twist-1.jpeg
twist-2.jpeg

QED. Simple and effective. Not the most robust mechanism (in hindsight I could have made the pin beefier) but it should be adequate for its purpose in this rocket.

I had thought a bit about whether to just use friction fit for this, but I hate friction fit because I never know how tight to make it (and it can't be *too* tight when dealing with these thin-walled tubes).

Here's the whole ridiculous assembled airframe:
airframe.jpeg

As a bonus, it now occurs to me that it will be *much* easier to deal with the shortened rear section when attaching the fins.
airframe-pieces.jpeg
 
Back
Top