Estes 2022 price increases...some kits almost doubled in price.

[dbrent]

First of all, I'm no economist nor do I know squat about marketing... but I'm curious here:

I've been working on an Excel spreadsheet of all Estes kits and their pricing and availability year-by-year since 1961. I'm now updating it for the 2022 product line and noticed that while some of the price increases were in line with past price increases (10% or less), some kits saw their price nearly double! Case in point would be the "Firehawk" (kit# 0804). It as listed in the 2020 catalog at $10.99, then for some reason it was absent in the 2021 catalog. Now it lists in the 2022 catalog at $20.99!!! That's a 91% price hike for an 11.2" tall mini engine rocket. By contrast the "Firestreak SST" (kit# 0806) is a very similar mini-engine rocket at 10.2" tall and sells for $10.99 (no price increase at all from 2021 or 2020).

I know Estes has done everything they can to keep price increases to a minimum, but what could cause such wild variations in the costs of very similar kits like this? I guess projected sales quantities could account for some of it. After all the Firestreak SST has been around for a very long time and is a good seller...but 91%?

Other products that saw significant price increases from 2021 to 2022:
The "Generic E2X" (#2008) went from $12.99 in the 2021 catalog to $23.99 in the 2022 catalog ( 85% increase ).
The "Alpha III Launch Set" (#1427) went from $35.99 in the 2021 catalog to $49.99 in the 2022 catalog ( 39% increase).
The "Journey Launch Set" (#1441)went from $32.99 in the 2021 catalog to $52.99 in the 2022 catalog ( 61% increase).

These are just the ones I've encountered so far. Just to be clear, these are the outliers. Most of the price increases are in the 10% or less range (which is expected) while some kits didn't see a price increase at all (like the aforementioned Firestreak SST).

I have every published price from every catalog that included pricing logged in my spreadsheet and nowhere else in the company's history have single year price increases been anywhere close to 85%-90% on any product. That includes the last time we saw double-digit inflation back in the 1970s.

Any thoughts?

 

[jderimig]

Supply/Demand? Estes prefers to discontinue some kits?

 

[Scott_650]

The “official” US inflation rate is hovering around 7.5% - that figure is a bit skewed since the “shopping bag of goods/services” includes things that have decreased in price (which, if you don’t buy them are irrelevant) so price increase are to be expected. As energy prices continue to surge and supply chain problems linger prices are expected to rise. The market does what it does - consumers will adjust their behavior accordingly.

As far as the #2008 E2X Generic goes I think the price in the catalog and on the Estes website is a misprint - the 12 each bulk pack of Generics is priced at $129.99 which comes out to a much lower $10.83 (rounded up).

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

Numerous factors. The ubiquitous "supply chain crisis". The dramatic increase in the price of balsa wood. Inflation. The fact that this is very much a "niche" hobby. A fun thing to do is to run prices from certain years on rockets still available today, such as Big Bertha, Alpha, Saturn V, Saturn 1B, from catalogs, say, in 1969, through an inflation calculator, and see how that translates in 2022 dollars and cents.

 

[user 35280]

The "Generic E2X" (#2008) went from $12.99 in the 2021 catalog to $23.99 in the 2022 catalog ( 85% increase ).

MSRP of $13.99 and selling price of $9.37 each at,

Generic Rocket | Estes Generic | AC Supply

The Estes Generic E2X standard engine powered and can reach heights of 1100 ft.

www.acsupplyco.com

Also less than $7.50 each if you buy the bulk pack,

Estes Generic 12 pk from AC Supply

Reach incredible heights with the Generic model rocket sold at AC Supply. This model rocket can reach a max altitude of 1100 feet.

www.acsupplyco.com

 

[Scott_650]

Numerous factors. The ubiquitous "supply chain crisis". The dramatic increase in the price of balsa wood. Inflation. The fact that this is very much a "niche" hobby. A fun thing to do is to run prices from certain years on rockets still available today, such as Big Bertha, Alpha, Saturn V, Saturn 1B, from catalogs, say, in 1969, through an inflation calculator, and see how that translates in 2022 dollars and cents.

That is an interesting exercise but it may not yield the results you expect - the Big Bertha is a good example, 2022 list price is $29.99, adjusted for inflation 1969 price is $3.91, actual 1969 list price is $2.00. So for not quite double the 1969 price you get…laser cut fins. Not really a very good value (the Boosted Bertha is a much better value - the increase of three 2022 bucks for the booster and threaded engine retainers seems more than reasonable).

The Saturns are bit different since there are definitely improved parts included to account for the price difference - the 2022 Skylab SV adjusted price is less than $5 more expensive than the 1969 Apollo version and the 1b is an even better value - an adjusted increase of 55 cents!

Of course the biggest difference is the market it self - buying an Estes kit from an online discount vendor would’ve been science fiction in 1969 - now nobody expects to pay more than 75%-ish of the list price, usually you can find even bigger discounts with a bit of surfing.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

That is an interesting exercise but it may not yield the results you expect - the Big Bertha is a good example, 2022 list price is $29.99, adjusted for inflation 1969 price is $3.91, actual 1969 list price is $2.00. So for not quite double the 1969 price you get…laser cut fins. Not really a very good value (the Boosted Bertha is a much better value - the increase of three 2022 bucks for the booster and threaded engine retainers seems more than reasonable).

The Saturns are bit different since there are definitely improved parts included to account for the price difference - the 2022 Skylab SV adjusted price is less than $5 more expensive than the 1969 Apollo version and the 1b is an even better value - an adjusted increase of 55 cents!

Of course the biggest difference is the market it self - buying an Estes kit from an online discount vendor would’ve been science fiction in 1969 - now nobody expects to pay more than 75%-ish of the list price, usually you can find even bigger discounts with a bit of surfing.

Was making a suggestion. Disqualifying this by saying what is or is not a "value" (not everyone wants, or can fly, a Boosted Bertha), based on the number of stages the rocket has, seems quite arbitrary.
I come on here to engage in quality conversation, not to be trolled.

 

[Arnie]

First of all, I'm no economist nor do I know squat about marketing... but I'm curious here:

You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing

 

[Arnie]

Numerous factors. The ubiquitous "supply chain crisis". The dramatic increase in the price of balsa wood. Inflation. The fact that this is very much a "niche" hobby. A fun thing to do is to run prices from certain years on rockets still available today, such as Big Bertha, Alpha, Saturn V, Saturn 1B, from catalogs, say, in 1969, through an inflation calculator, and see how that translates in 2022 dollars and cents.
[/QU This has always been a niche hobby

 

[Arnie]

First of all, I'm no economist nor do I know squat about marketing... but I'm curious here:

You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing

 

[neil_w]

Was making a suggestion. Disqualifying this by saying what is or is not a "value" (not everyone wants, or can fly, a Boosted Bertha), based on the number of stages the rocket has, seems quite arbitrary.
I come on here to engage in quality conversation, not to be trolled.

For whatever reason, you seem to interpret every comment as some sort of attack. If you think that was being trolled, then perhaps on-line interaction is not for you.

 

[PDawg]

I’ve flown only Estes my whole life, but I just learned about Quest, Custom Rockets, and Loc Precision. Now that Estes is made in China I have no loyalty to them since there are many kits made in the USA at similar prices. To be fair to estes no one charges MSRP for Estes. Estes is heavily discounted everywhere I look.

 

[Scott_650]

Was making a suggestion. Disqualifying this by saying what is or is not a "value" (not everyone wants, or can fly, a Boosted Bertha), based on the number of stages the rocket has, seems quite arbitrary.
I come on here to engage in quality conversation, not to be trolled.

For whatever reason, you seem to interpret every comment as some sort of attack. If you think that was being trolled, then perhaps on-line interaction is not for you.

I re-read my comments and since they’re based solely on the adjusted prices of three of the kits mentioned and the changes made in the current versions in comparison to the 1969 versions there is no reason for me to engage - my comments contained no personal or emotional content outside expressing my qualified viewpoint that the laser cut fins included in the current standard BB kit are not commensurate with the adjusted price difference, that the Boosted BB (which is perfectly flyable sans-booster) is a better value due to the included engine retainers (unavailable in 1969 and with a 2022 list price of $7.99 for three - the two included in the BBB kit price out at $5.32) and the additional parts for the booster, the improved parts included in the Saturn kits more than account for very nominal increases in their respective adjusted prices and that comparing past to present list prices doesn’t take the then inconceivable e-marketplace we have today into account. How those factual statements and well-supported opinions can be construed as “trolling” is puzzling.

 

[Scott_650]

I’ve flown only Estes my whole life, but I just learned about Quest, Custom Rockets, and Loc Precision. Now that Estes is made in China I have no loyalty to them since there are many kits made in the USA at similar prices. To be fair to estes no one charges MSRP for Estes. Estes is heavily discounted everywhere I look.

Estes primary business is the sale of made in Penrose CO motors - the kits are a small part of their revenue stream. And something to take into consideration is that the decision to move production overseas was made by people long, long gone from Estes and those decisions were driven by the corporate culture that Estes found itself mired in - I’m not sure, with the volume of kit sales (and depth of product line) Estes has in comparison to even Quest, that moving production wholesale back to the US could even be done. Not that I wouldn’t love to see them make that move - at least with the lower volume/higher end “premium” kits.

Other great domestic produced vendors are Aerospace Specialty Products (ASP), Rocketarium, Discount Rocketry, Madcow, Mach 1, Fliskits, Squirrel Works along with the boutique makers like Rocketship Games, Leading Edge, Rocketry Works, Launch Lab/Vanderburn, Cosmodrome, etc…you could go an entire career as a rocket modeler and from starter kit to level 4 build never fly an Estes kit - though I don’t know why you would, what would life be like without at least one Der Red Max!

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

I re-read my comments and since they’re based solely on the adjusted prices of three of the kits mentioned and the changes made in the current versions in comparison to the 1969 versions there is no reason for me to engage - my comments contained no personal or emotional content outside expressing my qualified viewpoint that the laser cut fins included in the current standard BB kit are not commensurate with the adjusted price difference, that the Boosted BB (which is perfectly flyable sans-booster) is a better value due to the included engine retainers (unavailable in 1969 and with a 2022 list price of $7.99 for three - the two included in the BBB kit price out at $5.32) and the additional parts for the booster, the improved parts included in the Saturn kits more than account for very nominal increases in their respective adjusted prices and that comparing past to present list prices doesn’t take the then inconceivable e-marketplace we have today into account. How those factual statements and well-supported opinions can be construed as “trolling” is puzzling.

Not just talking here. You have trolled me now for months. I could say the Earth is round, and you'd post in seconds that it has always been flat.

 

[ArthurAstroCam]

For whatever reason, you seem to interpret every comment as some sort of attack. If you think that was being trolled, then perhaps on-line interaction is not for you.

Sure. So that was quality dialogue? OK.

 

[CalebJ]

Sure. So that was quality dialogue? OK.

Scott absolutely made a constructive and rational contribution to the thread, yes.

 

[Scott_650]

Not just talking here. You have trolled me now for months. I could say the Earth is round, and you'd post in seconds that it has always been flat.

This is as far as my engagement is going - go back and re-read my comments in any thread we’ve participated in, my comments were straightforward, based on (and clearly expressed as) my own experiences, most definitely not presented as absolutes but as possible options and worded as positive and supportive. I have a great many shortcomings of which I’m painfully aware - I have been married for nearly 40 years - but being anything but helpful, positive and engaged, online or in person, about rocketry is not one of them.

And that’s all I have to say about that - there’s a new episode of The Model Rocket Show podcast to listen to and I have fins to cut for my dual deploy training rocket built from the (highly recommended) Estes TARC parts kit…

 

[dbrent]

As far as the #2008 E2X Generic goes I think the price in the catalog and on the Estes website is a misprint."

I thought that must be the case too, but I would think by now they would have corrected the website at least. Also I didn't intend this as any kind of attack on Estes, just curious about why a few kits got such a large price increase while other similar kits didn't see much increase at all.

 

[Ez2cDave]

Another major reason that I prefer to buy components and scratchbuild. Kits tend to be way overpriced. I hope this trend doesn't cause Estes to price themselves out of business, eventually.

Dave F.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I was wondering why the MR is $30 and the Bull Pup 12D is $33. The MR seems to be a much more complicated rocket. Maybe a 24mm Bull Pup might be worth $33. I foresee a spring sale coming soon.



That said...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006N7400/ref=aod_recommendations_asins_pageSource_desktop_fod_widget_title_0

 

[heada]

Any complex shaped (capsule on MR) or one-off (tailcone on Bullpup) that are plastic are $$$ and hard to get right now. That may explain why some kits are seeing a price increase more than others.

 

[OverTheTop]

I hate to think what the Estes kits in Australia will cost then. They are already ridiculously high.

 

[Cape Byron]

I hate to think what the Estes kits in Australia will cost then. They are already ridiculously high.

Yep. take the US price, divide by 0.7, add the age of your oldest child and the last digit of your credit card number.

Your basic Big Bertha.

Estes rrp $29.99 US ($41.80 AUD)
Oz price rrp $59.99 AUD ($43 US)

Motors?

C6-3 Estes rrp $12.99 ($18.10 AUD)
Oz price rrp $28.99 AUD ($20.28 US)

And we have no Hobby Lobby and such to give discounts.

Parts prices are even worse.

BT-80 tubes $23.99 AUD ($17.22 US) for a two pack. $9.99 US.

Latest kits? Still no Antars or DARC-1s in the country AFAIK.

Welcome to Australia. The land that LPR forgot.

Still.. I'm trying. I'm really trying.

 

[MikeT]

LOL. It's not called inflation anymore , it's called "building back better"...............................

Mike

 

[BigMacDaddy]

Yep. take the US price, divide by 0.7, add the age of your oldest child and the last digit of your credit card number.

Your basic Big Bertha.

Estes rrp $29.99 US ($41.80 AUD)
Oz price rrp $59.99 AUD ($43 US)

Motors?

C6-3 Estes rrp $12.99 ($18.10 AUD)
Oz price rrp $28.99 AUD ($20.28 US)

And we have no Hobby Lobby and such to give discounts.

Parts prices are even worse.

BT-80 tubes $23.99 AUD ($17.22 US) for a two pack. $9.99 US.

Latest kits? Still no Antars or DARC-1s in the country AFAIK.

Welcome to Australia. The land that LPR forgot.

Still.. I'm trying. I'm really trying.

Haha... I am surprised that every international hobbyist (across almost all hobbies) does not 3D print / scratch build everything... Lower prices in USA is something that are hard to appreciate till I look at, for examples, model train prices in Mexico or model rocket prices in Australia.

 

[BigMacDaddy]

FWIW -- Hobby Lobby still has not changed prices on model rocket engines as far as I can tell (online sites increased prices significantly at start of the year).

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I was surprised when I found B6-4 motos at a Dallas HL for $5.50. That said, I bought a box of B6-4 from eBay for $60 so not bad.

 

[jrap330]

LOL. It's not called inflation anymore , it's called "building back better"...............................

Mike

or B^3 for us engineers.

 

[Ronz Rocketz]

I found this.

Estes 2011 Catalog Price Comparisons

I finally picked up a copy of the 2011 Estes catalog and compared some prices with the 2010 catalog side-by-side. Some interesting price ...

modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com