Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by Scott_650, Nov 15, 2018.
Anyone want to post some unboxing pics for us frozen stiffs up in Canada?
The rocket whisperer posted here: http://www.oldrocketforum.com/showthread.php?t=17628
Well... I'm not one to post unboxings and it seems someone else did it anyway... however I've perused the instructions of the new Saturn V and to say I'm amused is an understatement. On the second to last page there is a photo showing the entire scale estes fleet. The only problem being the *labels* are all scrambled up! Utterly hilarious. The mercury redstone has for it's caption "little joe I". The LJ-1 is captioned "little joe II"! Of the EIGHT rockets shown only TWO have the right caption... an utter laugh riot. Oh and the photos showing the paint pattern and decal placement? I'm DEAD POSITIVE they are photos of the ORIGINAL K36 Saturn. The photos show launch lug and interstage details that are consistent with the flight damaged K36 Saturn V that I have on my shelf. Too dang funny! Nuthin' is perfect...
One thing though that I have as a serious question.... the attachment of the fins says put the fin into the fairing and then glue the fairing to the wrapper etc. Nowhere does it say to apply glue to the fin root edge prior to placing the fin/fairing combo onto the model. Seems like a no brainer. I still have templates and such to my centuri saturn which is a very similar construct. That one had you glue the vacuform fins to the wrap first, THEN put the fairings on over them.
For the 2157, I used the Centuri method, this really helped when gluing the fairings on. IIRC, the 2157 instructions are also missing this step.
Thanks! I guess I had come to that conclusion as well, but it's nice to know that I didn't miss something. Overall, the instructions are pretty good, not quite to the level of detail in the old days... too much grapics... not enough words! Keeps translation costs down when you're international. This I know from experience. I mean for someone like me who follow instructions right off a cliff, if I had less experience I might not put cement on the fin roots because the instructions didn't actually say to... sometimes I'll follow the directions even if I know better (how sad is that?)
We can ship to Canada, just not through the website, we do it through Pyapal or email. The problem is shipping is high $45. The box is 3.5lb and nearly 30 inches long.
Just received another new shipment. 18 left to go around.
So here is another interesting question for those of you who've obtained the new Saturn V and have read thru the directions. On pages 12 and 13 are photos of the original K36 Saturn (I'm positive it's the K36) for painting and decal placement. On page 12, "step 4", it says: "Cut out the masking guide for the service module (SM) and paint the exposed SM surfaces silver". Now I seriously doubt that this is in reference to the RCS template that you have to cut out of the instructions on 10. It seems to me that this is an indication that you are not supposed to just paint the entire SM silver but somebody at Estes put the effort in to make the pattern a bit more "realistic". The issues are:
1) There is no "masking guide" referenced in the parts list that I can see.
2) I cannot find such as masking guide in the box anywhere.
3) Page 12 appears to be the only reference to the SM masking guide
Does anyone else see this? Does anyone have a masking guide in their kit somewhere?
This masking guide is from the original Centuri kit IIRC, and is not in the 2157 or 1969 kits. It would have been a nice addition. Bummer the instructions weren’t fixed.
Turns out that I have (and now completing after letting it sit for 40 years 80% completed) the Centuri kit. The thing has a nice shiny wrap for the SM that I'll scan and use as a painting guide on the Estes Saturn.
The service module marking guide can be found on page 46 of this PDF.
Are the hand written portions the orginal draft of the plans??? That's some find if it is!
I've got one of these still in the box as well as their Saturn 1b.
I'm working on mine following this build blog. Since the kit has changed, I'm working on a differences for my build I'll put up. First change: might as well fill spirals before marking any guide lines. I sanded mine right off. I was noting the guide pictures have some flopped targets based on this image. Look at the white squares on the 3rd stage transition.
Funny thing... launch photos of apollo 8 show S-IC/S-II stringers extending above the black horizontal band of the roll pattern... at least a similar shot to frame 6 (from the right of the Apollo 11 launch sequence above) seems to indicate they extend back into the "white" area. However if you zoom in on the interstage details, you'll not see clear evidence of the stringers above the black roll pattern... in fact they look absent to me... i.e. the interstage stringers seem to end at the black band on apollo 11. You can see some frost at the tops of the black painted stringers though... but they seem to end right there.
My David Weeks drawings show the stringer detail above the black roll pattern.
If that's true then Estes blew it. The stringers end at around 25-30% the length of the H2 fairings... right on the top edge of the black. BUT the photo Homer posted seems to indicate otherwise. Both my Centuri Saturn V and busted up Estes Saturn have the stringers nearly halfway up the LH2 fairings... well above the black band. But zoom in on the A-11 launch photo. There is no clear evidence of that being the case for Apollo 11
You can see where the umbilical connector are where the white section is. The heavily dotted areas are of course the black areas.
That drawing corresponds perfectly with the black upper edge being at the exact top of the stringers.
Not that I'm *super* worried about scale but I noticed a point during assembly. The centering rings in the 3rd stage coupler may not be perfectly perpendicular with the coupler. This makes the exposed 3rd stage length above the transition float a bit, distance from top of S-IVB transition to top of instrument unit. Looks like from here and here that should be 5-3/32", give or take... assuming I did the math right.
Are the rings a bit big? I note that the ring with the shock cord anchor fits inside the coupler unlike the original Centuri kit where both rings are the same outer diameter as the coupler itself. I'm hoping they are not out of round! Still working my Centuri Saturn... the Estes one will have to wait a while still.
One thing I'm wondering... if it would be effective to paint the vacu-formed wraps prior to application. It'd sure make painting/masking a heck of a lot easier... I wouldn't want to be the gunea pig for this... nor am I advocating for it... but if someone tried this out I'd love to know the results.
Probably a touch big. That makes the inner diameter ripple like a potato chip.
I really don't see how this would help, it doesn't make masking easier and there's a possibility the paint would flake when the wrap was put on.
I'd try using Tamiya tape or something automotive specially designed for masking -- I tried using regular blue tape and it was, ah, not very effective or satisfying.
I've started on the wraps, I went for the bottom one where the fairings/fins will go. Man... saying those are fiddly is an understatement. It took three tries before I have it looking like it will stay put. I'm using some Elmer's Spray Adhesive and once you get it spraying without glops it works OK. This one says for permanent bonds, apply within 15 seconds. I suggest test fitting, a lot, until you get it on and aligned within that time frame. Don't be shy with the amount and work quickly. Wouldn't hurt to practice on a scrap first either.
Also, I measured the third stage wrap, 5-3/32"... guess the math was right. I accidentally got the exposed part of tube to be exactly that length. Hope it matches with the interstage right. I should know in about 5 days or so as that will be the last one I do.
Yeah i suppose you're right. It was just a thought. I used std. Masking tape trimmed to specific widths to paint my centuri Saturn V. Worked well enough but having the prefabricated widths of the Tamiya tape would definitely ve alot easier... Not perfect, as I kind of rushed it, but here is the result...
I have found it easier to paint the black first on the Estes Saturn V. Masking is a lot easier.
That is one truth that Centuri got right. In the original K36 saturn, the details were separate injection molded parts that you glued on later. That made masking in the traditional way, with white paint first, much easier. I think what might have been nice is for Estes to have gone back to the fiddly details as injection molded, with flat areas on the vacuform wraps that you could use plastruct to attach them. Masking would be a snap, and it'd be relatively easy to scrape paint off of the vacuform wraps.
I'm sure everyone already knows this, but just in case someone is building a Saturn V and worried about masking for painting I'll throw this out.
The vacuformed interstage sections with all the ridges has a raised path designed for the edge of the tape, so that you can get a clean mask without pushing the tape down in between the ridges. When I realized this it took a lot of worry off of my shoulders. It makes a difference where you glue these pieces so that everything lines up with the masked areas in other interstage sections so figure out where everything is before gluing them on and it makes masking the thick black stripes a LOT easier.
Looks pretty decent to me!
The 1969 version only has four ullage rockets, so that should decrease the amount of masking on the interstage substantially. And if the fairings fit better, that should also help. But I don't think there's any way to get away from the masking being pretty painful as long as they use the vacuform wraps.
Use the back filling method Tim describes for his Saturn 1b and Saturn V.
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