Estes 1/200 Scale RTF Saturn V

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Where does the SLP exceed any of the source materials?

Did you not say above... "There is at least one place where we exceed 1122. We require a safe distance of 50 feet between spectators and the model rocket pads"
 
And again, the rules are what’s printed in the source material. The SLP is a well intended convenient compilation and condensation but does not have the legal authority of the Safety Codes or NFPA requirements with respect to being a Tripoli Sanctioned Launch. That’s not an excuse for it being wrong but a guidance for how it should be used.

When it comes to E.3, 1122 is silent on models so it seeks and has no "legal authority" I never claimed it did, but catching a rocket pursuant to the SLP as written is not to be permitted, no ambiguity here.
 
Dave, Again you miss the point, until the SLP is changed that is what needs to be followed. An attorney would have a field day with your interpretation in case of a liability claim. They would whip out the SLP and ask you why you didn't follow you own assoc rules which are safer and avoid a risk you said was okay.

Steve, As a club we have always discouraged if not outright prohibited "catching" rockets. Any reason as a prefecture we can't continue to do so?

Just own up to the fact that you're wrong . . .

Steve previously stated ( Post #348 ) that adding to the restrictions of NFPA code would be "extremely repressive". . . Do you really want to "own that one" ?

Steve clearly cited the source ( NFPA 1127 ), which has ZERO to do with Model Rockets. NFPA 1122 ( Model Rockets ) does not forbid catching them.

Clearly, Tripoli has some "housekeeping" to do in its documentation . . . Once that is completed, all Prefects & Members should be "set straight on the facts", not conjecture or personal bias !

Now, if Tripoli outright says that NFPA 1122 does not forbid the catching of Model Rockets ( Post #348 ) . . . I think that Prefects should respect and honor that, without question !

Again Steve, thank you so much for wading into this mess and clarifying things. Hopefully, Tripoli will codify everything, clearly, in writing, to avoid any further confusion in the future !

Dave F.
 
Just own up to the fact that you're wrong . . .

Is that what all this is about me being wrong and you being right? My only interest is making the hobby safer by avoiding unnecessary risk and I have explained why. How come you won't answer direct question about the safety of what you are arguing for?

Steve previously stated ( Post #348 ) that adding to the restrictions of NFPA code would be "extremely repressive". . . Do you really want to "own that one" ?

Sure, then why did TRA add the additional distance restrictions for model rockets if they were concerned about being "extremely repressive"?

Steve clearly cited the source ( NFPA 1127 ), which has ZERO to do with Model Rockets. NFPA 1122 ( Model Rockets ) does not forbid catching them.

... but that does not mean TRA could not add the restriction just like is did for the distance requirements, both of which are reflected in the SLP which again is self described as "a condensed version of Tripoli Safety Codes and policies" NOT an expanded version, which would need to be true to support your argument.

Clearly, Tripoli has some "housekeeping" to do in its documentation . . . Once that is completed, all Prefects & Members should be "set straight on the facts", not conjecture or personal bias !

Clearly they do, but accepting the verbiage of the SLP is NOT "conjecture or personal bias" it says what it says and should be followed if only for the reason of avoiding any liability that could result from not following it.

Now, if Tripoli outright says that NFPA 1122 does not forbid the catching of Model Rockets ( Post #348 ) . . . I think that Prefects should respect and honor that, without question !
We'll TRA doesn't think that according to Steve, see post #359. Thank goodness!

Again Steve, thank you so much for wading into this mess and clarifying things. Hopefully, Tripoli will codify everything, clearly, in writing, to avoid any further confusion in the future !

Yes, Thanks Steve, I hope TRA we'll decide to keep the SLP as it is and resolve the conflict by updating the code. As you have opined it not a "good idea" to go "catching" rockets. If we follow Dave's recommendation we'll all have to tell flyers it's okay to chase and catch 3 lbs rocket made of fiberglass.

The real question for you Dave is why you are conducting launches where the rocket's decent behind the flight line occurs regularly enough for any of this to matter to you, Perhaps you should review this PDF paying special attention to page 35. While I realize its not "code" I'm confident other NAR officials would like to see its recommendations followed.
https://www.nar.org/pdf/Safety_in_Sport_Rocketry_Tutorial.pdf
 
That would be the right thing.

Yep, this thread was "Thread-jacked" (hijacked) in posts #326 and #329 when discussion of construction materials and catching rockets was injected. I should have never responded to Dave in this thread about them. My apologies.
 
Obviously, you are a person who has to "have the last word" . . . So be it !

Dave F.

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This thread is so far off from where it started out. Please just end this thread. Put a fork in it it's done.
 
The 1/200 RTF Saturn V is a GREAT fun little rocket. let just continue on about it. Dont kill a popular thread because it got off topic.
Lets jut get back on and stay on topic.
If another off topic comment is made Dont feed into it , just say please start a separate thread new topic. So many good threads get spoiled by off topic rants that should have there own post.

Lets get on with the Saturn V 1/200 posts :)
 
So it makes one wonder why Estes did not also recommend the B6-2 for the "first flight" as they do with other kits. Maybe the delay was a little long? Wolfram, what did you observe in your flight?
Well as far as model rocket flights go, it was an extremely marginal, hold-your-breath, crappy flight. I only did it because I am a steely-eyed competition flier who needed to get the job done (i.e. wanted to win the big prize at a spot landing contest). Based on 45 years of model rocketry experience, mission accomplished would only happen if I used a B6-2, which would deploy the parachute over the target at the last possible moment and still be called a safe flight. I wouldn't recommend the B6-2 for routine flying, and I am not at all surprised the Estes doesn't.

I think you're hung up on Estes' numbers too much. Their data isn't sacred rocketry dogma or something. Maybe it's wrong. You have many people here telling you that the C6-3 works. It worked for me. It certainly works better than a B6-2. And when I tried flying this rocket with a D10 it worked too well, and I almost lost the rocket. I'd prefer to fly it with a C6-3. Haven't tried the C12 yet.
 
Well as far as model rocket flights go, it was an extremely marginal, hold-your-breath, crappy flight. I only did it because I am a steely-eyed competition flier who needed to get the job done (i.e. wanted to win the big prize at a spot landing contest). Based on 45 years of model rocketry experience, mission accomplished would only happen if I used a B6-2, which would deploy the parachute over the target at the last possible moment and still be called a safe flight. I wouldn't recommend the B6-2 for routine flying, and I am not at all surprised the Estes doesn't.

I think you're hung up on Estes' numbers too much. Their data isn't sacred rocketry dogma or something. Maybe it's wrong. You have many people here telling you that the C6-3 works. It worked for me. It certainly works better than a B6-2. And when I tried flying this rocket with a D10 it worked too well, and I almost lost the rocket. I'd prefer to fly it with a C6-3. Haven't tried the C12 yet.

Not surprised, the B6 burn time not that long so a 2 second delay could be too long, but I'd bet good money the rocket performs better of the pad with the lighter motor.
 
Well as far as model rocket flights go, it was an extremely marginal, hold-your-breath, crappy flight. I only did it because I am a steely-eyed competition flier who needed to get the job done (i.e. wanted to win the big prize at a spot landing contest). Based on 45 years of model rocketry experience, mission accomplished would only happen if I used a B6-2, which would deploy the parachute over the target at the last possible moment and still be called a safe flight. I wouldn't recommend the B6-2 for routine flying, and I am not at all surprised the Estes doesn't.

I think you're hung up on Estes' numbers too much. Their data isn't sacred rocketry dogma or something. Maybe it's wrong. You have many people here telling you that the C6-3 works. It worked for me. It certainly works better than a B6-2. And when I tried flying this rocket with a D10 it worked too well, and I almost lost the rocket. I'd prefer to fly it with a C6-3. Haven't tried the C12 yet.

Finally had my first flight. The C6-3 worked perfectly fine for me. See no reason to fly it on anything else unless you want it to go out of site and drift away :)
 
Well as far as model rocket flights go, it was an extremely marginal, hold-your-breath, crappy flight. I only did it because I am a steely-eyed competition flier who needed to get the job done (i.e. wanted to win the big prize at a spot landing contest). Based on 45 years of model rocketry experience, mission accomplished would only happen if I used a B6-2, which would deploy the parachute over the target at the last possible moment and still be called a safe flight. I wouldn't recommend the B6-2 for routine flying, and I am not at all surprised the Estes doesn't.

I think you're hung up on Estes' numbers too much. Their data isn't sacred rocketry dogma or something. Maybe it's wrong. You have many people here telling you that the C6-3 works. It worked for me. It certainly works better than a B6-2. And when I tried flying this rocket with a D10 it worked too well, and I almost lost the rocket. I'd prefer to fly it with a C6-3. Haven't tried the C12 yet.

The QJet C12-4 is a good fit for this rocket - I agree on a D, it flies too high for what is a by design demo rocket. I have multiple flights on my Saturn on Estes BP C6-3s and both C and D QJets - QJet C12 in any kind of wind, C6 in still conditions. And as stated many, many times - seat that motor firmly and make sure there is NO wobble in that CPFU!

Not sure if I made the comment in this thread but it was a funny little moment at the NARAM manufacturer’s forum when the Aerotech guys ribbed John Langford about the best motor for this rocket being the QJet ;)
 
This rocket needs two improvements:
1. 24mm motor mount, (Available to 3d print)
2. Better clear plastic fins, they break easily.

Flight with C11-3 was just right!
 
This rocket needs two improvements:
1. 24mm motor mount, (Available to 3d print)
2. Better clear plastic fins, they break easily.

Flight with C11-3 was just right!

I'm still of the mind that Estes cut corners just to make the deadline which can result (and has been proven) in non-safe flights with the stock 18mm with no motor tube. I most certainly wouldn't allow flying it at a NAR launch if I were the RSO of the launch.
 
Sooo does any one have spare silver fins. I lost the D fin during one of my launches and after 3 hours of searching its lost in space :(. Wasnt sure if anyone had a damaged rocket or fin from one they would sell?? I wish they sold these as replacement parts.
 
It sounds like he needs on of the scale fins rather than the clear unit. They are separate pieces glued into the fairings so I can see how one could get knocked off and since they're small they would be easily lost.
 
It sounds like he needs on of the scale fins rather than the clear unit. They are separate pieces glued into the fairings so I can see how one could get knocked off and since they're small they would be easily lost.
Ah, I see. A sheet of styrene, hobby saw, block sander, and some silver spray paint and modeling cement and you'll have a tiny new fin in no time.
 
I flew mine last weekend. It flew great and looks great as well.
DSC_1996.JPG
 
One was flown at our club launch today on a C6-3, in 9 mph wind, and it had a great flight. Perhaps the best RTF ever by Estes - I've flown mine quite a few times this summer, and have a 2nd for replacement if needed.
 
We had yet another one Loop-de-loop today at the MC2 launch. This time it was brand new, never flown. The motor used had been tested for fit and reinstalled by the flyer with many decades of LPR experience. He was well aware of the issue hence the test fitting.
 
Dude you're not meant to be around this rocket. Seems like when you're around where this rocket is flown it screws up.

We had yet another one Loop-de-loop today at the MC2 launch. This time it was brand new, never flown. The motor used had been tested for fit and reinstalled by the flyer with many decades of LPR experience. He was well aware of the issue hence the test fitting.
 
We had yet another one Loop-de-loop today at the MC2 launch. This time it was brand new, never flown. The motor used had been tested for fit and reinstalled by the flyer with many decades of LPR experience. He was well aware of the issue hence the test fitting.

Seems like a personal grudge against it. He has said nothing for weeks as this thread has been pretty dead and first time someone says something positive he comes and spreads more negative comments. I have has 12 flights NO issues or problems. You have made you point WELL known. Its gotten old and tiring.
 
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