Estes 1/200 Scale RTF Saturn V

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by JumpJet, Jan 10, 2019.

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  1. Jun 7, 2019 #151

    beeblebrox

    beeblebrox

    beeblebrox

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    I downloaded the files... something is wrong with the scale, they show up as only a couple of millimeters across... I tried importing into tinkercad, but they show up microscopic... sum ting wong...
     
  2. Jun 7, 2019 #152

    kuririn

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    I notice that a couple of replacement parts are now available on the Estes website: the upper half and the clear plastic fin unit. The PFU fits on the aft of a 2" tube, so lots of ideas on scratch builds. Two inch "finless" (fill in the blank): Gemini Titan, Mercury Atlas, various ICBMs.....
    Short dowels for the pins and an aluminum 18mm retainer, or fashion your own. Sky's the limit. Cheers.
    Addendum: Per Jumpjet at YORF the plastic 18mm retainer used in this kit is in their current catalog and will be available soon. Woo hoo!.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  3. Jun 7, 2019 #153

    gtg738w

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    Try a scale factor of 25.4x. Should be a couple of inches across...
     
  4. Jun 8, 2019 #154

    5x7

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    I flew mine at a local school last weekend, I believe the qjet c is shorter than an estes C. I really had to twist it to get the label in the small recess in the motor mount and it suddenly popped all the way in. The retainer screwed all the way down and there was even a small space between the end of the motor and the inside of the retaine, the retainer held the fins very tightly.
     
  5. Jun 8, 2019 #155

    BEC

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    If you get the motor in all the way you will have that space between the nozzle end of the motor and the retainer with either an Estes motor or a Q-Jet. First image is motors, second image is Q-Jet installed properly, third image is Estes C6-3 installed properly. In all cases the retainer fits tightly over the fins IF the motor is seated at the forward end correctly.

    IMG_1107.JPG IMG_1109.JPG IMG_1113.JPG
     
  6. Jun 10, 2019 #156

    afadeev

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    This model is quickly becoming my all-time favorite low-power model rocket: it looks gorgeous, is virtually indestructible, and flies great on anything above C12.

    Three PSAs:
    1). Loose elastic shock cord and replace it with Kevlar. This should be nothing new to experienced flyers, yet I keep forcing myself to relearn this lesson the hard way.
    2). Fly on anything with less thrust than C12 at your own risk (e.g.: C6-3).
    3). For frequent flyer miles, upgrade to a nylon chute.

    About the motors.
    The first flight was at our Cub Scouts launch day, on the recommended C6-3. Rocket started beautifully straight off the rod, then must have caught a crosswind at ~100 feet, and turned into a sky-writer. Crashed hard on the paved parking lot, ejected laundry on the ground. Recovered with zero damage.

    Subsequent flights on Quest C12 and D16 went perfectly: straight up, with lovely dark black smoke trail. Huge hit with kids and parents. On the last flight of the day on D16, elastic short code broke, with body coming down and core sampling (recovered with no damage), while the nose cone drifted away into another county.

    Got another one to fly stock, old airframe is being upgraded for 24mm MMT. Might need to get creative and find room in the nose cone for a GPS tracker to push the upgrade path to it's logical (and insane) F39 conclusion.

    New one flew beautifully again on Quest C12 and D16, and even better on Aerotch D13 and D24. D13 flight was spectacularly high, barely visible. After one flight, the rocket landed in a flooded irrigation canal, turned into a floater. Got fished out with zero damage, dried off in the sun, and flew again.

    a

    P.S.: I am beginning to really love Quest motors, but how are you supposed to secure the ignitors in the nossle? I keep jamming them in place with wooden match stick ends (works well), otherwise, they fall out. If not right away, then as soon as there is a gravity tug from ignition clips. Is there a more factory recommended approach to securing them in place that works?
    P.P.S.: Unlike with Estes ignitors, Quest ones light the motor up reliably!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  7. Jun 10, 2019 #157

    kuririn

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    The Q-Jets come with a short piece of red tubing to secure the ignitors in place. The composite motor needs to be vented at ignition to build up pressure, so don't use something solid to hold in place, like a toothpick or matchstick (or balled up Kleenex or wadding like the old days).
     
  8. Jun 10, 2019 #158

    kuririn

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    BTW don't know if this was previously mentioned, but Flightsketch has parts to adapt a 24mm motor to this kit. 3D printed and non permanent, you can switch between 18 and 24mm motors. Very reasonably priced at $7. Saw it while browsing this morning.
    https://flightsketch.com/store/catalog/1200-saturn-v-24mm-motor-mount_129/
    Edit: Just saw Russ' posting on the previous page. I wonder if you could use the gray Estes 24mm screw on retainer and lock on the fin unit to this adapter? That would be perfect.
     
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  9. Jun 10, 2019 #159

    afadeev

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    On my Quest igniters, the red tubing sits too far back to friction fit into the nossle.
    And I haven't had any luck pushing it onto and over the black shrink wrap area, which is too narrow to secure the igniter in the motor.

    Wait a second - venting and building up pressure are two opposite requirements.
    All my HP composite motors are plugged one way or another (usually via plastic plugs, occasionally with tape). Plugs are required to keep the igniter at the FWD end of the motor, and to help bring it up to pressure. Those plugs get blown off, together with the igniter, once the motor comes up to pressure, and leaves the pad.

    So far, the matchstick method has worked for me 9 out of 9 tries.

    YMMV,
    a
     
  10. Jun 10, 2019 #160

    BEC

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    No, no.....take the red tubing OFF the igniter and jam it in the nozzle beside the igniter, just like was recommended by Quest with the little red "straw" alongside Q2G2s.

    Attached is the illustration from the instructions..... IMG_1146.JPG
     
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  11. Jun 10, 2019 #161

    kuririn

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    The red tubing is included separately from the igniter. And you do not put the igniter inside the tubing , the tubing goes beside the igniter in the nozzle. Similar to the red plastic straw that came with the Quest BP motors.
    Are you cutting a slice off the red plastic plugs before putting it over the nozzle? Those plugs need to be vented, per AT instructions.
    See post #55, paragraph 3 in this thread:https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/quest-q-jets.142027/page-2#post-1789616
    Shreadvector directly contacted Gary at Aerotech and his reponse was to include heat shrink tubing (the red tube) to allow VENTING and proper ignition.
    Consider yourself lucky. Myself, I'm sticking to the factory recommended procedures.
    Cheers.
     
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  12. Jun 11, 2019 #162

    kuririn

    kuririn

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    afadeev,
    For your edification, since a picture is worth a thousand words, here is the proper installation of the nozzle plugs for Aerotech and Quest QJet motors:
    0610191312.jpg 0610191312a.jpg
    Notice that a corner has been sliced off the red cap on the AT motor.
    Laters.
     
  13. Jun 11, 2019 #163

    BEC

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    In several of my recently purchased Q-Jets it's been on the "initiator" leads. These from the same pack of C12-4s from which the instruction photo a couple of posts above came.
     

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  14. Jun 11, 2019 #164

    gtg738w

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    Yes, the Estes & Aero Pack 24mm retainers will work. However, the OD of the 24mm body is bigger than the 18mm cap. If you wish to use it to retain the fins & open up the fin can enough to fit it, there is no switching back. That’s why we made the whole mount assembly slide out instead.
     
  15. Jun 11, 2019 #165

    BEC

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    Thanks for bringing us back more on topic, Russ.

    That said....when will you have more FS Minis? :D
     
  16. Jun 11, 2019 #166

    kuririn

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    BRIEFLY straying off topic, and not knowing anything about app programming, I was wondering if a FSMini that was purchased for the iOS app could also work with the Android app when it's introduced? Or would you have to purchase another that is Android specific? I have devices in both OSes.
     
  17. Jun 11, 2019 #167

    BEC

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    Russ will have to answer of course, but if AltimeterThree is anything to go by, the hardware works with apps on either platform.

    ....so to tie the two topics together....I'm wrestling with where to poke some static ports in my 1/200 S-V. The three flights I've done so far with the FS Mini aboard clearly show some oddness that I would attribute to there not being any. I'm currently thinking I'll drill through with four small holes in the black portion of the interstage and then try to hide the holes with a black Sharpie.
     
  18. Jun 11, 2019 #168

    kuririn

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    Thought I read something about vent holes should be placed on a straight section of tube to minimize air turbulence and faulty readings. Where are they now?
     
  19. Jun 11, 2019 #169

    BEC

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    There aren't any now. What you have read is correct for the best results. That said, I have learned through flying lots of altimeters in lots of models that static ports aren't as fussy as I had first thought....but having them still gives smoother data than not having them. You can see my three S-V flights on the FlightSketch flight log section of the web site to see that the time vs. altitude data are less than smooth.... :)
     
  20. Jun 11, 2019 #170

    gtg738w

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    Ugggh... I haven't found an option I'm happy with yet. I'll post an update this week but the short version is the current demand is going to require commercial production. That adds cost and the only way to keep it reasonable is with fairly large lots. There are a couple of outstanding hardware improvements that are being updated before a big lot can be released.

    Yes, the hardware is universal. All existing altimeters will be Android compatible.

    The barometer wants to see freestream static pressure but obviously we need to sample pressure somewhere on the airframe surface. Holes normal to the surface on a straight, smooth section of airframe will give the best measurements. If you're only interested in apogee, remember the pressure is constant on the surface with zero airspeed. If you get a reasonably straight boost and the speed at apogee is low, it doesn't really matter where the ports are. If you're tying to get accurate velocity data or have a large horizontal velocity at apogee (flying sideways!) The port placement matters a lot.
     
  21. Jun 11, 2019 #171

    kuririn

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    An additional plastic washer between the fin can and the 18mm retainer cap can close the gap and allow use of both mounts: use the washer with the 18mm retainer, no washer with the 24mm. However I noticed another problem: the depth of the 24mm Estes retainer cap is too short to lock down the fin can. Can be solved by shortening the threaded piece on the motor tube. Easier and more practical solution would be to permanently mount your adapter with a stock 24mm Estes retainer and use the red plastic 18 to 24mm adapter that Estes sells. No screwing/unscrewing plates and mounts. But you will still have to modify the Estes retainer to lock down the fins. Cheers.
    EDIT: I just realized that there is a retainer plate in the adapter kit that is screwed on to sandwich the fin unit. So best and easiest solution seems to be to permanently mount the 24mm adapter in and attach a screw on engine retainer. Use a 18 to 24mm red plastic adapter for 18mm engines. No mods of the engine retainer needed. And ditch the stock 18mm plates and rings. Whew.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  22. Jun 11, 2019 #172

    afadeev

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    Ha - good to know, thanks for the insight.
    Will give it a try the next time out!

    Yes, indeed.

    a
     
  23. Jun 11, 2019 #173

    mrtriton

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    To secure the igniters, even Estes, I always roll a little ball of recovery wadding and push that in with a pencil tip to hold the igniter.
     
  24. Jun 11, 2019 #174

    beeblebrox

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    You can't do that with composite motors ever, only black powder. Composite motors don't ignite instantly, they need to vent during igniter firing, a plug in the nozzle can cause one of two things to happen. 1. chuff the igniter out and it will not light. 2. the motor might cato.
    Try out my updated 24mm conversion...Instructions and photos included in ZIP file
     

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  25. Jun 11, 2019 #175

    kuririn

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    Nice work. I was wondering if anyone has considered using the motor retainer to lock down the fin unit as in the stock kit? You would have to print up a new unit for that since the Estes 24mm retainer does not extend past the threads enough. That would combine the functions of the screw down plate and bayonet retainer into one.
     
  26. Jun 11, 2019 #176

    mrtriton

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    Oops. I should have been more clear. Black powder only. Estes, Quest, etc.


     
  27. Jun 11, 2019 #177

    kuririn

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    Quest only sells composite motors (QJets) now. Discontinued the BP motors several years ago.
     
  28. Jun 11, 2019 #178

    neil_w

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    I flew my first Questjets on Saturday, and I could not for the life of me to get the red tubing in there like that, way too tight. It just would not go in. I managed to get the first one just in enough to hold, but for the second flight I gave up (it kept falling out at the pad) and borrowed a matchstick from afadeev.

    Is there some mysterious trick to getting the red tubing all the way in there so it'll hold?
     
  29. Jun 11, 2019 #179

    mrtriton

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    Guess I'm dating myself!!!
     
  30. Jun 11, 2019 #180

    kuririn

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    I just stuck mine in. I suppose you could use a filler as long as it doesn't close off the tube.
     

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