Estes 1/200 Scale RTF Saturn V

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by JumpJet, Jan 10, 2019.

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  1. Sep 8, 2019 #391

    James Duffy

    James Duffy

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    Ever considered stamp collecting?

    James
     
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  2. Sep 8, 2019 #392

    jahall4

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    Just coincidence my man. It's only the 3rd time I have seen one fly and this one was NOT flown by me. For you to interpret something different suggests your own personal bias and sickness. I report what I see to benefit those trying to fly this rocket safely, you trying to make it about something else suggests that you have little interest in the safety of the hobby and should not reply to post you don't like.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  3. Sep 8, 2019 #393

    DEN

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    Coincidence perhaps... I apologise if I offended. I have edited my original post. I would like to say from my personal experience there is nothing wrong with this rocket if you follow the instructions which are fully detailed as any other rocket. Yes if you do not seat the motor properly or attach the clear fin unit properly issues as you have described can happen which is stated in the manual. After 12 flights on C6-3 motors I have had zero issues. Ive been in the hobby on and off for 43 years so maybe that plays into it. I followed the instructions and have had 100% success rate. Yes installing the motor can be a bit more time consuming but the instructions clearly state how to do it.
    Most of the issues Im assuming are from people rushing to put it in the air and not taking the time to verify proper motor and fin installation or using different motors. Yes having a motor tube would help motor installation and would have been a wise addition and Estes should add it.
    If there was a critical design error Estes would have pulled it from the market as they did with the X15 years ago. They would not keep a problem product out in the market without a recall. To say other wise is absurd. I have only heard negative issues from a couple of people on this forum and other social media.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  4. Sep 8, 2019 #394

    Leo

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    This rocket is as safe to fly as with any other ordinary model rocket. That is if you install the rocket engine and the plastic fin unit correctly.
     
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  5. Sep 28, 2019 #395

    jahall4

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    It's hardly an apology to "apologize" then re-question my motivation in the same breath. When I have first hand knowledge of failed or successful flights I'll continue to post here as soon as practical. I report what I see to benefit those trying to fly this rocket safely.
     
  6. Sep 28, 2019 #396

    DEN

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    Accepted or not is your choice of course. Poor choice of word on my part. I did however mean it sincerely. Life is too short. I can only say what I have experienced with my 2 Saturn V 1/200s. I have had no issues any only good results in over 15 flights now on recommended C6-3 motors. This is a great hobby and it is important to report issues with products. I do however feel there are no issues with this one. Maybe a few were improperly assembled in the factory causing issues you have witnessed or bad motors. I have had great success flying mine and look forward to many more flights. Nothing like seeing a scale Saturn V lift off.
     
  7. Sep 28, 2019 #397

    jahall4

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    If there were in fact "no issues" Estes would have not released and addendum and made the extra effort of opening previously packaged inventory to insert a new hard copy.
     
  8. Sep 28, 2019 #398

    DEN

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    Very true but it was addressed with the addendum and if followed no issues should arise.
     
  9. Sep 28, 2019 #399

    jahall4

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    Yes, the adendum does a good job explaining how to avoid an improperly loaded motor, but the flight on the 7th was post addendum, and as I explained at that time, flow by a flyer that a) was aware of the issue and b) may have more decades in the hobby than you and I combined. The C6 is simply not adequate (by calculation and by Estes own guidelines) made even more so by an individual motor who's thrust may be as much as 20% below spec.
     
  10. Sep 28, 2019 #400

    DEN

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    Never had a issue myself with the C6-3 which is alI I have used. I am curious to try a C12-4 Q-Jet when they are approved for sale here in Canada.
     
  11. Sep 29, 2019 #401

    Scott_650

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    The QJet C12 has worked well for me - several hundred feet more altitude so the recovery phase isn’t quite as exciting as it’s been a couple times with the Estes C6-3 ;)
     
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  12. Sep 30, 2019 #402

    shreadvector

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    The thrust level of the C6-3 is not what will cause an unstable flight.

    I have seen several dozen flights now (including one yesterday with a C6-3 in a 5 mph breeze).

    C6-3 works great even in breeze.

    C6-3 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight.

    C12-4 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight. I saw one and only one which was prepared by a VERY experienced flyer who "poo-poo'd" the Estes instruction addendum. He no longer "Poo-poo's" the addendum and has had no further unstable flights.
     
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  13. Sep 30, 2019 #403

    jahall4

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    Sure it can hence 3-5:1 T/W ratio as a min rule of thumb, but yes, at such a low ration thrust alignment is critical and even more so as the margin approaches 0.
     
  14. Sep 30, 2019 #404

    shreadvector

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    Nice editing out of the part of my post that stated:

    C12-4 if installed at a tiny angle (not seated properly) will result in unstable flight. I saw one and only one which was prepared by a VERY experienced flyer who "poo-poo'd" the Estes instruction addendum. He no longer "Poo-poo's" the addendum and has had no further unstable flights.
     
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  15. Sep 30, 2019 #405

    Scott_650

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    And this can’t be stated enough either with this rocket - the clear plastic fin unit cannot have any appreciable wobble! Make sure the retainer holds the CPFU nice and snug! Fortunately mine didn’t have a catastrophic ending to the flight (one and only such flight) where I didn’t ensure the CPFU was snug.
     
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  16. Sep 30, 2019 #406

    DEN

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    Yes the fin unit must be aligned and seated correctly. There are 4 holes / openings in the CPFU that mate to 4 pins on the bottom of the rocket and it must sit all the way flat with the plastic bottom on the rocket. If its not all the way down the motor retainer cap wont thread all the way on and the fin unit will wiggle slightly. Just make sure it pops all the way down everything will feel secure with no play and your good to go.
     
  17. Oct 1, 2019 #407

    KILTED COWBOY

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    Has anyone considered using this?
    Seems like a lot of folks thinking this model is under powered with the C6-3
    Flight Sketch has a kit to go from the 18mm stock motor to a 24mm motor for this model.
    Has anyone tried one yet? Instructions look interesting.
     
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  18. Oct 1, 2019 #408

    shreadvector

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    Absolutely no need.

    Perfectly stable flights with C6-3.
    If you want faster flights, you use a C12-4.
    If you want even faster and higher flights, you use D16-4.

    No alterations required.
     
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  19. Oct 1, 2019 #409

    kuririn

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    +1. Maidened mine on a D16 Q-Jet. It flew straight as an arrow and promptly drifted out of the park.
    Lost it in some scrub brush.
    Replacement will fly on a C12 or C6.
     
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  20. Oct 1, 2019 #410

    OC-Patrick

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    ...man - sorry for your loss.

    had good flights with the C6 - not high but easy to follow during flights.
     
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  21. Oct 1, 2019 #411

    jahall4

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    ... and if the forward retention ring is more heat resistant than the plastic used in the unmodified kit then the FlightSketch mod mitigates that weakness as well. BTW... Don't let anyone discourage you from trying something that could make your rockets better.
     
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  22. Oct 1, 2019 #412

    BABAR

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    Ouch! Pricey model to lose on the first flight. On the other hand, since it is RTF, at least you didn’t lose hours and hours spent building and finishing a kit version.

    Hope your next version has a straight trail, a soft landing, AND a SHORT walk!
     
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  23. Oct 3, 2019 #413

    Gerald

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  24. Oct 3, 2019 #414

    DEN

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    Great flights now and good altitude.[/QUOTE]

    What altitude do you get on a D with this bird?
    Must get up there. My launch site is surrounded by corn fields which eat rockets lol. I think it would drift too far to make sure I get it back unless its a next to no wind day. Its definitely a rocket you don't want to loose, way to nice. The C6-3 is perfect where I fly and I would like to try a C12-4 Q Jet when I am able to get them here but I think that's more than enough for this rocket unless your trying for low Earth orbit. :)
     
  25. Oct 3, 2019 #415

    Gerald

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    Kids had a altitude plastic thing and said on most of the launches I was getting almost 700 feet, to 800.
     
  26. Oct 3, 2019 #416

    DEN

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    Nice... It isn't a light rocket so that sounds just about what I would expect from a D. I don't mind the lower C motor altitudes so I can see, track and recover it easier.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
  27. Oct 4, 2019 #417

    beeblebrox

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    I have modified that to a better version with a quick lock motor retainer. You don't have to modify any of the original parts (Other than adding nose weight), just replace and go. Download the 3d print files instructions and photos here: Look for the Saturn V Zip file. And enjoy the other videos n stuff!
    https://mega.nz/#F!TJpGVSgL!_Nv-8Sp7Npu4UAKWrNKBVQ
     
  28. Oct 6, 2019 #418

    kuririn

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    Launched my replacement today on a C6-3 motor. A slight breeze blowing, maybe 5 mph. Beautiful flight and recovery, slight arcing near apogee.
    Will try a Q-Jet C on the next flight. For higher flights and larger fields the Q-Jet D is perfect.:D
    One thing I noticed: When loading the motor it is not fully seated at the first "stop". The retainer will not fully thread down and lock the fin can. When I twisted it the motor advanced down a further 1/8" or so and the retainer could be fully threaded down. I think that may be what has led to some of the errant flights that have been reported. Read and follow all instructions and addendums.
    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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