Estes 1/100 Saturn V build video series

[James Duffy]

Part 10 of the Saturn V build series is live:



This one is admittedly a bit on the boring side, but spraying paint well is still a pretty important step in the process.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Yow, I have some catching up to do! Thanks again for creating these so carefully and sharing them with us!

 

[James Duffy]

More great videos. I have caught up with all the episodes, as well as your Saturn 1B video.

My last Saturn build was the Estes 1B about 40 years ago. I am not sure what paint I used, but the white has yellowed some. Is your preferred Tamiya white paint more resistant to yellowing over time?

I noticed that you used two different spray adhesives for the plastic wraps. When I built my 1B model I was apprehensive about getting the placement just right and the permanence of the adhesive. I just positioned the wraps and glued the edges with Hot Stuff. I was encouraged to see how well things went when I saw you apply the wraps with 77. Then I was horrified to see you lift the edge of the wrap and work in some CA. I would have likely bonded the CA applicator under the wrap. But then, I don't use medium CA. I liked the attention you gave to finishing the seam. When I built my model I just applied Hobbypoxy Stuff, and filed in matching corrugations
with micro files.

I hope I am not too late to ask this, but I would like to see some weight measurement or estimates from your build. I would like to know the weight of the filler primer, and the weight of the paint finish. I also want the complete ready to fly mass and CG.

Are the injected molded fins true scale size? I know various Saturn V kit editions used oversized fins instead of the clear plastic glove fins over scale size fins. My Saturn V build will use 5 motors firing through the Plastic nozzles in the aft location. This will move the CG aft but I will add nose weight and the clear plastic fins to retain the Estes design stability margins. I do not remember where the CG was on the original K kit, but knowing the launch weight and CG from the newest kit will help me work things out. While many rocketeers use 5 C motors, I like the D12 (and possibly the E12) and four 13 mm motors. Gluing BT-5 to the inside of the BT-101 provides perfect scale location. The joy of kits is that everyone can build it their way.

Thanks for the kind words! Here are thoughts on a few of your questions:

* The Tamiya Pure White has never yellowed on me, and I have been using it for over 20 years.

* The 3M Type 77 spray adhesive sucks, there's no charitable way to say it. The Type 90 is far superior, but is a contact cement that needs to be sprayed on both surfaces. That means that a very complex masking job would need to take place in order to install the big middle wrap with all of the nooks and crannies. So, Type 77 it is for this project, with the subsequent medium CA enhancements.

* I'll be happy to measure and report the finished weight and CG when everything is done.

* The injection molded fins are slightly oversized, but not much. Without breaking out a copy of "Rockets of the World" and a micrometer I can't provide specifics.

* Clusters are great, if you have the skills and access to a robust launch control system.

 

[James Duffy]

* The injection molded fins are slightly oversized, but not much. Without breaking out a copy of "Rockets of the World" and a micrometer I can't provide specifics.

I couldn't let this go without doing the research. The actual Saturn V has a fin span of 752", or 19.1 meters. At 1/100 scale that would be 191mm. The fin span on the Estes model is 209mm, so the fins are definitely oversized.

The effect is pretty subtle, though.

 

[Scott_650]

I couldn't let this go without doing the research. The actual Saturn V has a fin span of 752", or 19.1 meters. At 1/100 scale that would be 191mm. The fin span on the Estes model is 209mm, so the fins are definitely oversized.

The effect is pretty subtle, though.

The overall size of the model sort of tricks the eye I’d say - especially effective on hobby rocketry folks who are already accustomed to rockets with “oversized” fins.

 

[markschnell]

@James Duffy, I didn't catch it if you stated in the latest video but how many cans of Tamiya paint did you use between the white, black, and primers? I'm wondering if they end up costing more than the initial cost of the kit.

 

[James Duffy]

@James Duffy, I didn't catch it if you stated in the latest video but how many cans of Tamiya paint did you use between the white, black, and primers? I'm wondering if they end up costing more than the initial cost of the kit.

Hah! A very wise observation! You're right, I routinely do projects where the finishing materials cost more than the kit, but this is not one of them. I did a bit of math, and this project will use the following consumables:

1x Rustoleum auto primer @ ~$8
3x Pure White Lacquer @ ~$8 = $24
1x White Primer @ ~$11
small amounts of NATO Black and Aluminum acrylic and thinner ~$3 total
small amounts of assorted metallic lacquers (fractions of cans) ~$8 total
3M Type 77 adhesive (partial can) ~$9

Estimated consumables total ~$63 for a $110 kit, which doesn't strike me as unusual. (I didn't include any adhesives other than the Type 77. Epoxy and CA strike me as table stakes in this game.)

That's pretty typical for one of my projects. The one project that really blew the paint budget out of the water was the 1/12 Little Joe that I did win 2015-16, which easily sucked up $400 in paint and supplies. On the other hand, I ended up with three 1.5 meter tall models, and flew one of them at the World Championships. The project also took place over a 9-10 month span, so it's not like all of that hit the wallet at once.

Rockets, paint, and motors are among the smallest line items in my rocket budget. The big hit for me is travel to events, and I know that many of my rocket buddies feel the same.

Just for fun I've attached a photo of the lacquers I have on hand...47 cans!

 

[markschnell]

1x Rustoleum auto primer @ ~$8
3x Pure White Lacquer @ ~$8 = $24
1x White Primer @ ~$11
small amounts of NATO Black and Aluminum acrylic and thinner ~$3 total
small amounts of assorted metallic lacquers (fractions of cans) ~$8 total
3M Type 77 adhesive (partial can) ~$9

Estimated consumables total ~$63 for a $110 kit, which doesn't strike me as unusual. (I didn't include any adhesives other than the Type 77. Epoxy and CA strike me as table stakes in this game.)

Thanks for the info. This is good news to me. I feel like I'm a pretty good modeler but I don't want to deal with paint compatibility issues on this one. I want to do it right, which means I want to use the same Tamiya paint you did.

 

[James Duffy]

Just a quick update that more videos are on the way soon. An Athena H landed on my workbench a couple of weeks ago, and I committed to get that finished first. That should go quickly, though, and I'll be able to get back to work on the Saturn V as soon as I return from some business travel later this week.

 

[bad_idea]

Just a quick update that more videos are on the way soon. An Athena H landed on my workbench a couple of weeks ago, and I committed to get that finished first. That should go quickly, though, and I'll be able to get back to work on the Saturn V as soon as I return from some business travel later this week.

Was extremely impressed by the designer Adam K's Athena H at Airfest. Looking forward to what you do with the kit.

BTW, a combination of your good influence and Rustoleum's abysmal performance convinced me to go heavy into Tamiya spray paints. Probably sticking with Krylon for the fluorescent orange part of my standard livery, since Tamiya's fluorescent orange is very yellow, but going Tamiya for everything else.

(Well, aside from filler primer, where the Rustoleum automotive stuff still seems the best bargain that provides good results.)

 

[markschnell]

I bought my Tamiya paints from Tower Hobbies. The Pure White Lacquer was $7.50 per can and the primer from them was $12 per. I bought seven cans of the Pure White because I'm going to be building the newest Saturn V and the Skylab Saturn V side by side. If I have any left it'll go toward the Saturn 1B later on.

 

[James Duffy]

Part 11 of the Estes 1/100 Saturn V build is now live!



There was a bit of a delay on this installment, as I was asked to do a quick build of the new Athena H kit on behalf of Estes. The new few episodes should appear in a much more timely fashion.

 

[Alan15578]

Some day, with practice, I hope to be able to build at 4x speed, and dream of 8x, but I'll never reach 20x speed.

 

[Dad of Sapling]

After watching part 11 I feel like I just attended a master class in masking and painting.

 

[bad_idea]

Part 11 of the Estes 1/100 Saturn V build is now live!

Thank you, James. Now I fear airbrushing less. This video will probably cost me money at some point.

 

[James Duffy]

Thank you, James. Now I fear airbrushing less. This video will probably cost me money at some point.

I love causing economic chaos!

Seriously, practice on an unimportant project first.

 

[Dad of Sapling]

Has anyone had issues with the fit of the 3rd stage shroud to the adapter ring? At the top it fits fine around the body tube but to fit around the ring 3mm gap between the ends of the shroud. I wanted to see if anyone else has the same issue and any potential fixes or problems before I glue everything up. I'm guessing I'm going to have to do more cosmetic work on the wrap.

 

[James Duffy]

Part 12 of the Saturn V build series is finally live:



The last two videos have taken far longer to complete than anticipated, but I really wanted to get the basics of airbrushing covered well having glossed over much of the subject on earlier video projects. Hopefully this will inspire some of you to add these skills to your arsenal.

Anticipating the inevitable questions on the subject, I'll get these two out of the way right away:

* No, an airbrush from Harbor Freight is not the answer.
* Yes, the airbrush compressor from Harbor Freight will work just fine.

The next installment in the Saturn V series will cover decal application, and will appear much sooner than the last two episodes.

James

 

[Sterk03]

Hi James:
When it is all said and done and if you are going to fly this model could you shed
some light on your process. The feedback from other people who have launched the Saturn
both V and the Skylab version the suggested motor is too under powered and the fins way to small to get a stable flight out of the model. OR and RSK might say its balanced but the Skylab wants to do tumble salts reaching apogee. Thanks for your showing how a model should be built.

Cheers,

Sterk03

 

[dpower]

I'm slowly working my way through these, and just finished #5. For the "big" wrap between SI and SII, you reference "Space in Miniature #10 - Saturn V" book (which looks fantastic). The drawing shows rectangular areas around the LH2 feed ducts that you used to cut the forward portion of the wrap. Sure enough, my photos of the SV at KSC show this detail. The 2157 SV kit I built per instructions, cutting close around the ducts, so this is a nice improvement I'll use on the 1973 Skylab kit. Thanks!

BTW, at Huntsville 10 years ago, a retired SII engineer was on site answering questions, and I had a great conversation with him about the common bulkhead design and the development challenges it presented.

 

[James Duffy]

Merry Christmas! Part 13 of our Saturn V build series is now live, which covers decal application:



The next video will cover final assembly, after which the project will be complete and my life will be my own again. Yay!

 

[bad_idea]

The next video will cover final assembly, after which the project will be complete and my life will be my own again. Yay!

Great series, James. Thank you for all the time you've put into making this valuable resource. Merry Christmas!

 

[Papa Elf]

I got this model for Christmas. Going be watching these with great interest. Biggest concern I have is I may run into the same problem I had with my Saturn IB, where the Plastic Fins would not stay glued to the model. It only took the slightest touch to knock a fin off. I ended up giving up on that model. I do not want to run into that problem with this model. I will be watching to see how you attached your plastic fins... since I am worried that this may have a similar issue.

 

[James Duffy]

The Saturn V build series is complete!



Anticipating the most likely questions: yes, the model will eventually fly, and I'll be sure to get video of that event. There's a unique combination of weather, field quality, and audience size that need to come together for that, so I beg your patience.

Enjoy!

James

 

[kjohnson]

I hear there might be a good chance at the end of Feb in Arizona....

kj

 

[Papa Elf]

Thanks for posting these videos. I am looking forward to working on my new Saturn V. I even ordered a new Saturn IB. Also ordered a can of 3M #90. I think the issues I was having with the IB had a lot to do with the flaws with using #77... but then again #90 has it's own share of issues to watch out for. I am very curious how well this is going fly wth an Estes F15.