Energia/Buran

[Stymye]

interesting, it possible for the styrene strip to catch air.and flutter or tear off that way? that would be bad..

It would be hard for me to fly such a masterpiece

 

[dtomko]

After a very hectic few weeks at work and a house full of projects that the wife wanted completed before the kids went back to school, I've once again had very little time. But, the elevons are attached from the top with tape, and I am test gliding to get the right angle before attaching the styrene along the bottom. I'm not worried about the strip coming loose; it will be secuely glued along the bottom of the wing. I did some work on a boilerplate, but I think I am going to go straight to this one and use oversize plastic fins. I am doing the cardboard cutout thing; I think swing testing this will be difficult because of the strap-ons and glider.
Drew

 

[dtomko]

Another angle.

 

[vjp]

Oh, man - that's just beautiful. Forget the plastic fin unit Drew, and just stick that beauty in a glass case! It's not worth the risk!

 

[rokitflite]

Originally posted by dtomko
I did some work on a boilerplate, but I think I am going to go straight to this one and use oversize plastic fins. Drew

Just Vacuum form a CLEAR shuttle for the other side and it should be stable... You could put a tiny wonder woman action figure in the clear one as a pilot

 

[BobH48]

That is awesome, Drew.

If it were me, I would have a real hard time getting up the nerve to fly a masterpiece like that.

 

[eugenefl]

Originally posted by vjp
Oh, man - that's just beautiful. Forget the plastic fin unit Drew, and just stick that beauty in a glass case! It's not worth the risk!

EXACTLY!

This project - in my honest opinion - relatively has the magnitude of an HPR scale project and I haven't seen too many of those fly successfully lately.

 

[dtomko]

Thanks, everyone! The thing has to fly; that's been the point from the start. Of course if could be completely stable and get taken out by a CATO or one of those high-test Estes D ejection charges. . . .
I think if I were going for a static model I would have made the Buran's wings in scale. As it is, I don't like the oversize wings except as a concession to flight. I like the idea of the phantom shuttle on the other side
Hey, this has to be more stable than the Estes stack, and that thing flew . . . mostly, anyway.
Drew

 

[GlennW]

I'm in the minority but I say fly it without hesitation. I build mostly scale rockets myself, but building them to gather dust as display models is ridiculous. The flying is why we're all in this hobby, is it not? When I took my gorgeous, newly-built LTV Scout to NERRF, a couple of guys said they would never fly such a beauty. I told them I didn't understand that thinking and frankly I wondered what the hell they were doing there. Building a great rocket and not flying it to me is akin to grilling an awesome steak and not eating it, what's the point?

I've now flown my LTV Scout 4 times and only one flight did it not suffer some damage. I still will continue to fly it and repair as needed. I also have an Estes Space Shuttle that I spent many hours building and finishing that I also fly. If it came down to it I would build new ones if I lost these. So I say Drew, Do not hesitate to fly your creation, and if indeed something bad were to happen to it, it sucks but that is part of the game. But never letting it take to the skies would be even worse.

Glenn

 

[vjp]

Drew, if it's o.k. with you, I've 'snarfed' that first photo for the Buran group's home page. If not, let me know and I'll pull it!

In retrospect I'm glad you're going to fly her - that's a launch I definitely wish I could see. Any idea when the maiden voyage will be?

 

[dtomko]

Vince,
A OK with me; feel free to take any photos you want. I really want to get a nice shot of it standing up with a clear background. I am just getting to the plastic fins, but it looks like I will have some time in the next week or so to finish it. The weather of course has been perfect, sunny, little wind. Let's hope it holds out.
Drew

 

[Stymye]

A real beauty.

(hmmmm...would look great on a scale launcher)

 

[dtomko]

Getting closer . . . .

 

[dtomko]

From the front. I'm sure these clear plastic fins are larger than I need, but I don't want to take any chances. I am going to try a swing test, after I figure out how to attach the string!
Drew

 

[dtomko]

Fully loaded with clear plastic fins, a D12-3, one 18" parachute for the Energia and a 12" for the nose (because of the nose weight), the stack weighs in at 8.8 oz. That's pretty good, I think, and today I wondered if it was even too light for a D12. I don't want this to scream off the pad or go too high. It's pretty draggy, so I am hoping it will be OK. I am going to swing test it tomorrow or Thursday and I hope to (gulp) attempt a launch on Sunday morning.
Drew

 

[Reed Goodwin]

You'd better have some photographers there... I am definitely going to have to see the pics. I hope all goes well.
Reed

 

[sandman]

dtomko,

I've looked but I don't see a full size completed model picture.

Just close ups of all the parts.

I wanna see da whole ting!!!

 

[jjnodice]

Originally posted by dtomko
Fully loaded with clear plastic fins, a D12-3, one 18" parachute for the Energia and a 12" for the nose (because of the nose weight), the stack weighs in at 8.8 oz. That's pretty good, I think, and today I wondered if it was even too light for a D12. I don't want this to scream off the pad or go too high. It's pretty draggy, so I am hoping it will be OK. I am going to swing test it tomorrow or Thursday and I hope to (gulp) attempt a launch on Sunday morning.
Drew

Drew,

Take my free advice for what it is worth -- but don't risk that beautiful model on a C11-3. Go with a D12-3 and have some margin built in to avoid a prang. My N-1 is ~7 oz fully loaded and has nice low and slow flights on C11-3's. At ejection it is almost sliding tail first backward. I'd think your draggier, heavier, Energia/Buran will get less altitude than my model and would be pointed nose down at ejection. Plus, a little more boost will give the Buran more time to show off it's gliding skills!

At any rate -- get lots of pics!

btw, I just realized that massive scale N-1 is supposed to fly on Sunday as well!

GOOD LUCK COMRADE! May Korolev and Glushko smile on you!

Jason

 

[vjp]

Drew, have you got any C5-3's?

The C5-3 has a liftoff spike of around 22 Newtons, same as the C11, but then it tails off to a lower thrust level and burns for 1.75 seconds, a full second longer than the C11. In a high-drag rocket like your Buran, this should result in more altitude.

It might be worth running through Rocksim. You could model a squat, fat rocket with the same cross section area, and the same mass, to get a 'ballpark' idea of the performance.

 

[dtomko]

Sandman,
How's this?

 

[dtomko]

Or this?
I'm going to take A LOT of outdoor photos before launching, trust me.

 

[dtomko]

Jason and Vince,
I have exactly one C5-3 left! I'm saving it for when I reconstruct my BFTPR Centuri Space Shuttle. Having flown the Estes stack on C5-3s, I think they would not quite do the job with the E-B. I suspect that the perfect combo would be a C5-3 in the core and 2 A10-PTs in the 2 inboard strap-ons, but I'm not willing to risk ripping the strap-ons off with the forces of the side motors. I think the drag should keep it sensible with a D.
Drew

 

[sandman]

EXCELLENT!!!

 

[dtomko]

Swing test successful! After the rains came through this morning it cleared up and out I went. I swung it from the side and from the bottom since it's asymmetrical. Both ways it did fine. Even after starting almost sideways it straightened itself out. Here's a shot of it rigged up. Full speed ahead!
Drew

 

[vjp]

Makes you wonder if the Soviets tested theirs the same way!

Those plastic fin units look great, very "unnoticeable". One word of advice - don't let the fin units sit against the blast deflector, or the exhaust will scorch and possibly warp the fins, possibly resulting in an unstable flight. Learned this the hard way

 

[powderburner]

Originally posted by dtomko
How's this?

Drew, you should be proud, this thing turned out really nice!
Best of luck on your flight.

The only suggestion I can make is to have someone else step through your pre-flight with you (sometimes you get so excited that you 'see' things as ready that really aren't)


vjp, that's a really good catch on the fins-resting-on-the-blast-plate thing. I'll have to file that one away for future reference

 

[dtomko]

Originally posted by vjp
Makes you wonder if the Soviets tested theirs the same way!

Vince, the beginning of the swing looked remarkably like that video of the Energia/Polyus launch with that pitch-over

Thanks for the tip about the fins; I'll have to prop it up a bit. Another reason I miss those Centuri slanted deflectors; they did a much better job of moving the exhaust away from the fins.

I was reasonably sure the plastic fins were bigger than I needed and that definitely seems the case. No point in taking any chances!
I am bringing at least the two kids, but I am looking for another camera for maximum coverage. I plan on launching pretty early on Sunday when the winds are calm at the elementary school field.
OK, a few more touch ups to go.
Drew

 

[dtomko]

Elevons: I forgot to post this picture. The tops of the elevons are .020 styrene, the bottoms, .010. The tops are held by tape hinges to the tops of the wings. The bottoms are CA'd to the bottom edge of the wings at an angle and rest against, but are not glued to, the top elevon pieces. There is enough flex in the .010 styrene to allow the elevons to straighten out during boost and, in theory anyway, they will help push the elevons back up to glide position after ejection. Actually, the tape hinges will probably be enough, but the two pieces add scale thickness without a lot of weight. I still need to add a side triangle to cover the gap at the ends.
Drew

 

[dtomko]

T minus . . . .
Pre-flight activities are proceeding and everything looks nominal (I wonder what the Russian equivalent of that term is ????).
I may attempt a launch late this afternoon if the wind dies down; otherwise, it looks like early tomorrow morning.
Wish me luck!
Drew

 

[vjp]

Originally posted by dtomko
Wish me luck!

You know it! Hope you can videotape it!