elmers glue?

[im2kool4u17]

Ok so i just got the comanche-3 and all i have to do is glue on the fins. Fins have never been my favorite on the other 3 rockets that i built. Ive never used elmers glue on a rocket before. Just a hot glue gun and epoxy. So i was wonderin if elmers glue is strong enough to hold the fins on. Oh and i was wonderin if you guys had any other cool paint schemes other than the stock one and is the comanche-3 a scale kit?

 

[lalligood]

Elmer's glue will work just fine for LPR construction. However, I'm partial to Aleene's Tacky Glue (gold bottle) because it's a little thicker, a little tackier (I mean that in a good way), & seems to dry faster. Costs about the same as a comparable size of Elmer's too. You can find it at most craft stores.

Hot glue is NOT a good idea. It'll resoften when heated (like from the motor) & cause "undesirable results"

HTH,

 

[TonyF]

Yup......

Elmer's glue is plenty strong for wood-to-wood(or wood to paper) bonds.

I prefer the Caparpenter's Wood Glue by Elmer's since as mentioned before, it tends to be tackier than the standard white Elmer's. I've also used Weldbond white glue when I need a bond that allowes a little flexture. Weldbond also dries clear.

TonyF

 

[rbeckey]

Elmers white or yellow will be fine. Remember to sand the glassine in the areas where the fins will attach. Sand before marking the BT. That may seem terribly obvious, but I often forget and have to remark the BT. DOH!:kill:

 

[wwattles]

All the rockets I flew today were held together with either Elmers white glue or Elmers wood glue. Finish smoothing was with Elmers Wood Filler. I also use Elmers Ultimate Glue. Those 4 products can hold just about anything together short of HPR.

Hot glue is less than desireable for 2 reasons: 1) It's tacky, but rubbery, so it is susceptible to flexing in undesired ways (fin flutter); 2) It can melt when exposed to heat (as already mentioned.

WW

 

[Justin]

Elmers is plenty strong for LPR regular rockets (preferably the better wood elmers), but Titebond is far and away better.

Why?- Faster to set, stronger.

Don't belive me, buy a bottle and glue some scraps together. Then yank stuff apart at different stages of drying. You'll see what I mean. I've built dozens of rockets with it, and have never had a glue seam fail. Mess ups I have had can be directly traced back to me, not the glue.

I aggre that hot glue is not a good idea. It IS fast. But, do the same test with it that I suggested for the Titebond (similar amounts), and once again I think you'll see what I mean (not to mention the stuff just don't sand well!).

-justin

 

[Lugnut]

I swear by Weld Bond for my rockets the reason mentioned above, it will flex slightly under extreme stress w/o breaking. This will save you more fins on high descent, odd angle landings than normal high strength glue. It sets up nice and quick to, easy to lay up multiple fins on a BT in minutes, and dries very clear. Can't ask for more in a LPR adhesive.

 

[rabidsheeep]

to save yourself frustration get a few small packs of elmers super glue (3 to a pack, best deal i see) and tack the fins on with it, then reinforce with white

i cant wait 40 minutes for a fin to dry then learn its crooked

 

[Mister Rogers]

Just to throw my 2 pesos in, I agree with the drawbacks of hot melt glue that been mentioned. However, they can be minimized to a great extent by doing two things. One, don't use it for fins on a minimum diameter rocket. Instead, use it on any rocket with a motor mount. The distance alone is enough to keep the body tube cool enough. Second, use mass to your advantage and make the fillets out of hot glue also. The large mass means it is highly unlikely to soften and fail though it does add a good bit of weight.
Another strategy that is worth trying is to use a small amount of hot glue on the root edge, then use epoxy or even elmers to build your fillets. The big advantage for me is that the hot glue sets so quickly. You don't have to stand there holding the pieces nor do you have to use ajig. I often use 5 min epoxy for D motors on up for the fins, but hot glue is just fine for A-C.
I know this is model rocket herasy...........

 

[TheRadiator]

I'll say ditto, Elmer's glue works just fine for LPR. Personally, I'm partial to thick CA for fin root-edge attachment, and Titebond II wood glue (in the BLUE cap) for fillets, launch lug attachment, and engine blocks in minimum diameter rockets. When I actually have a sizable motor mount, I'll step up to Gorilla glue or 30-minute epoxy.

 

[Micromeister]

Nobody's mentioned it yet so I'll throw this out for your information.
With any of the organic glues, Elmor's, Titebond, Titebond II, or weldBonds, and all the yellow carpenteres glues. If you'll learn the double glue joint method, our dried glue joints are stronger then either the paper or balsa/basswood...they join.

The method is very easy to learn. Set up to attach your fins as usual. apply a fairly thick bead of whichever "glue" to the root edge of one fin. marked "1", apply this fin to one of the premarked lines on the model. remove the fin, set it aside (hanging over the glued root edge over the table edge or book will keep it from sticking), move on to fin "2" and so on. once all the fins have there first joint coating, and its been allowed to dry to the touch. apply a second bead of "glue" to the root edge and apply the fin permenantly to the body, repeating with the remaining fins. This method is one of the strongest (Glue) joints possible.
There are other completely different methods for use with the other types of adhesives, and epoxies used today in rocketry. HOT melt glue should NEVER be one of them. Our motor casing operating temps are are between 212 and 221 degrees F, most hot melt glues flow at 180 - 215 degrees. NOT a good choice
I still have models 25 and 30 years old that fly on a semi-regular basis held together by those same elmor's white or carpenter's glue joints

 

[Stymye]

definately, I also use the double glue joint(yellow glue) on most builds ,that way you don't have to hold the fin or tack it with cya,hot melt. plus it links with the fibers ,many other glues don't.

I also like weldbond for glueing different materials together,like plastic to paper

heres something I didn't know untill reciently,
I know most people (including myself) referr to most things as glue but I reciently learned actually only natural products are considered "glues",synthetic products are considered "adhesives"

 

[sandman]

I thought I posted it...but I think that was in a different thread last week.

Do a search on "glue rivets" that should bring it up.

I'm editing this...just found it!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13006&highlight=glue+rivets

The "glue rivwet" method is a STRONG glue joint. Works with Elmer's white, Yellow, Carpenter's and Titebond glues.

 

[LtSharpe]

Elmers is wonderful stuff. But, for fins I would recommend Alleene's Quick Dry tacky glue.. this is one that's in a silver bottle not a gold one as mentioned above. The gold bottle stuff is great to but this stuff is fantastic. I'm not a fan of super glue myself but some people use variations of it as well. To me it should take a little while to build the thing,, but I don't go to the extreme and use straight elmers because the fins tend to 'glide' as they dry hence my use of the other stuff I mentioned.

I do use elmers for engine mounts and the tri fold mount. You do NOT want to use a super tacky glue for engine mounts unless you're willing to chance it heh,, if the glue tacks too quick you will either not get the mount in far enough or slide it in TOO far and then not be able to push it back where it belongs. Even elmers can make this happen but it's not as likely,, especially if you lay it thick in there.

Originally posted by im2kool4u17
Ok so i just got the comanche-3 and all i have to do is glue on the fins. Fins have never been my favorite on the other 3 rockets that i built. Ive never used elmers glue on a rocket before. Just a hot glue gun and epoxy. So i was wonderin if elmers glue is strong enough to hold the fins on. Oh and i was wonderin if you guys had any other cool paint schemes other than the stock one and is the comanche-3 a scale kit?

 

[rbeckey]

I don't use yellow glue for motor mounts. I had to replace the rear BT of a partially complete rocket because the yellow glue grabbed solid before the mount was in place. I have been known to use polyurethane or even epoxy, even on lpr. Also, yellow glue can shrink and leave an indent on the BT when it dries.

 

[LtSharpe]

Yeah just as I wouldn't use white tacky glue on a motor mount I wouldn't use yellow either because it does seem a bit more sticky than normal elmers white glue. I love the variations of white glue, they're safe, they don't stick to your skin in any unremovable way and you can wipe your fingers or whatever on your nicest pants and the stuff will still come out in the washer(In my experience!).

Yellow is nice for fins though if you don't have any tacky glue,, or to use it as your 'fillet' glue.

 

[Hospital_Rocket]

Oh come on, everbody knows a Comanche should be assembled with a vacuum bagged carbon fiber sock and tip to tip 4oz glass for the fins.

Then you insert the whole rocket inside the payload bay of a BSD Thor and launch it on a K550.

Actually I've found that contact cement makes for a nice quick fin mount. Then I make a paste of microballoons and white glue for the fillets. This allows me to make nice HPR looking fillets on my modrocs.

For internal work like MMTs I use urethane glue (AKA Gorilla Glue)

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by sandman
I thought I posted it...but I think that was in a different thread last week.

Do a search on "glue rivets" that should bring it up.

I'm editing this...just found it!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13006&highlight=glue+rivets

The "glue rivwet" method is a STRONG glue joint. Works with Elmer's white, Yellow, Carpenter's and Titebond glues.

Sandman: you forgot CA and epoxy rivits also work great, especially on clear lexan fins. in that application you drill holes in both the fin 1/16" or so above the root edge and the body tube. CA rivits are frankly to brittle but make a good starting point on large fins that are difficult to keep aligned until the epoxy sets up

 

[powderburner]

im2kool,
The advice already posted above is solid. Many of the glues mentioned give stronger joints, but plain old Elmer's is indeed plenty strong enough for low-power rockets.
And if you stock up during the back-to-school sales Elmer's can be had for dirt cheap.

 

[kenobi65]

Just one thing to add:

The mentions above of "Elmer's white glue" almost undoubtedly refer to "Elmer's Glue-All." Don't even think about using the other type of "Elmer's white glue" -- "Elmer's School Glue." Substantially weaker stuff.

I like Elmer's Carpenter's Glue (the yellow stuff), though it makes for ugly fillets, because it shrinks as it dries. So, I usually lay down one fillet with yellow glue, then one or two with white glue to fill in the holes.

 

[surdumil]

I'll vouch for Elmer's, too. That's all I used when building the Centuri SSV Scorpion, Centuri ESS Raven, and Estes USS Atlantis. They're all still flying nicely with no sign of glue joint failures (though I've had to replace parachute shroud discs a number of times).

 

[surdumil]

Oops... I hadn't mentioned.... The models were built in the late 1970's. It's a good sign when your glue joints last over twenty years!

 

[limd21]

Elmers and Titebond are tried and true glues and have the nice benefit of being extremely safe, which is perfect when I'm building with my 4yr old.

That said, If I'm working on something when my son isn't involved, I've completely gone away from these types of glues, even for LPR. The main reason is convenience and speed. I can build much more quickly using CA and fast set epoxies or other modern formulations. Fillets are simply better looking with epoxy than yellow/white glue. Using polyurethane or epoxy avoids "tube shrink" that can happen with motor mounts installed with yellow glue.

 

[JRThro]

When you talk about Elmer's Yellow glue, do you guys mean the indoor or the outdoor stuff?

 

[lalligood]

Originally posted by JRThro
When you talk about Elmer's Yellow glue, do you guys mean the indoor or the outdoor stuff?

It doesn't matter. They're both waterproof once dry & readily accept being covered with primer/paint..

HTH,

 

[Planet Andy]

I'm gonna throw in a vote for Aleene's Tacky Glue. So far, so good. Not a shredded fin joint in over 40 launches of around 15 or so models. That said I'm not adverse to trying other products. Aleenes is inexpensive and plentiful!

Andy

 

[BobH48]

Originally posted by surdumil
Oops... I hadn't mentioned.... The models were built in the late 1970's. It's a good sign when your glue joints last over twenty years!

Just recently I have flown an Astron Spaceplane, Astron Cobra, Big Bertha and Astron Sprite that were built in the late 60's.

Also Orbital Transporter, Mark II, and Star Blazer that were built in the early 70's.

All were built with Elmer's Glue and the glue joints are solid.

I don't use CA at all because the fumes bother me and I rarely use epoxy.

Besides, how many rockets can you find storage for?

I need something that dries slow just to keep the numbers down.

 

[sandman]

I need something that dries slow just to keep the numbers down.

That's a very good point!

Plus! it's non toxic...heck...it's edable...taste yucky...but edable!

 

[Micromeister]

Originally posted by BobH48
Just recently I have flown an Astron Spaceplane, Astron Cobra, Big Bertha and Astron Sprite that were built in the late 60's.

Also Orbital Transporter, Mark II, and Star Blazer that were built in the early 70's.

All were built with Elmer's Glue and the glue joints are solid.

I don't use CA at all because the fumes bother me and I rarely use epoxy.

Besides, how many rockets can you find storage for?

I need something that dries slow just to keep the numbers down.

I'll refer you to the "out of room" thread bob! Ya just can't lose them fast enough... now with 250+ lpr/mpr and 100+ micro's, I should stop building...I can't! I Can't ...it's a compulsion I'm afraid... Glue dry time isn't That slow

Sandman... elmor's isn't to bad if you add a few drops of wintergreen or spearmint flavor consentrate Tends to gum up the works thou

 

[JRThro]

Originally posted by BobH48
Besides, how many rockets can you find storage for?

Not enough of them, that's for sure. And my entire fleet, built and unbuilt, is only about 20-25 rockets. All of them are stored on top of the china cabinet.