Ebay for LOC IV Rocket

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lstmysock11

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Hi all


The LOC IV now has the capacity to have a Ebay or dual deployment. With the video made by Dave Thomas he talks about you can use a Ebay you can assemble from LOC. Anyone know what one for this rocket? What most people would put in a rocket of this size? Level 1 High powered rocket.

Andrew
 

dr wogz

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I believe this is the one you want. But many 'just build to suit' from parts & such around the shop. (or design & 3D print it)




Frankly not a fan of the "new" LOC.. (Kits are great, it's all the "supporting" that gets me..)
  • That live launch spinning background on the webpage is enough to induce vomiting when you're trying to read the page / headers
  • They label these as 'electronics bay' when we all use the term 'AV bay'. and, they 'could' add the link to teh appropriate AV bay on the particular rocket page..
  • They have gotten better with descriptions (They used to be pretty limited..)
  • Their instructions are somewhat basic, and their new 'friendly' way of writing leaves out some of the 'procedural' process.. (And it the case of this LOC IV, they have you mark the body tube [on a door frame..] for the buttons after you've installed the fins.. ) They can (and should- especially with this kit) help new builders and those new to HPR build this; by explaining why some things are done, and detailing a few steps so they are easily understood as to why in the way they are..
 

lstmysock11

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I believe this is the one you want. But many 'just build to suit' from parts & such around the shop. (or design & 3D print it)




Frankly not a fan of the "new" LOC.. (Kits are great, it's all the "supporting" that gets me..)
  • That live launch spinning background on the webpage is enough to induce vomiting when you're trying to read the page / headers
  • They label these as 'electronics bay' when we all use the term 'AV bay'. and, they 'could' add the link to teh appropriate AV bay on the particular rocket page..
  • They have gotten better with descriptions (They used to be pretty limited..)
  • Their instructions are somewhat basic, and their new 'friendly' way of writing leaves out some of the 'procedural' process.. (And it the case of this LOC IV, they have you mark the body tube [on a door frame..] for the buttons after you've installed the fins.. ) They can (and should- especially with this kit) help new builders and those new to HPR build this; by explaining why some things are done, and detailing a few steps so they are easily understood as to why in the way they are..
This is exactly why I am watching videos on other who made this kit before. I saw their directions and they are far from great. Nothing worse then horrible directions. Bad enough I had one person from a club I contacted say if you need a video on assembly maybe your not ready for level 1. But with directions like this and getting tips from very experienced people like Dave Thomas makes all the difference in the world.
 

Sandy H.

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I haven't purchased anything from LOC since it was purchased by the new owners, so I have no comments there. I will say that LPR and mainstream MPR's typically have pretty good directions. If you're doing things completely on you own (i.e. no forum or club) then building 10-20 smaller rockets with good directions can prepare you with common techniques so that when you do start building some of the HPR kits that are just a pack of parts or have less thorough directions, you know what to do. I imagine that is what the club contact was getting at when the comment was made.

Having said that, there are a lot of build threads here that can get you tons of information without building as many rockets yourself. My LOC IV was not used to get my L1, but I have flown it on H-J motors. I did add the AV Bay and built it as an old-school conventional 3 tube arrangement for DD flights. You can tell where the joints between sections are by the way the orange stripe is misaligned. It is a solid rocket that can easily be flown completely stock with wood glue on H & I motors.

Don't feel rushed into getting your L1 or adding all the bells and whistles at first, but if you do choose to go 'all-in' you will have to learn a few extra techniques earlier rather than later.

Sandy.
 

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lstmysock11

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I haven't purchased anything from LOC since it was purchased by the new owners, so I have no comments there. I will say that LPR and mainstream MPR's typically have pretty good directions. If you're doing things completely on you own (i.e. no forum or club) then building 10-20 smaller rockets with good directions can prepare you with common techniques so that when you do start building some of the HPR kits that are just a pack of parts or have less thorough directions, you know what to do. I imagine that is what the club contact was getting at when the comment was made.

Having said that, there are a lot of build threads here that can get you tons of information without building as many rockets yourself. My LOC IV was not used to get my L1, but I have flown it on H-J motors. I did add the AV Bay and built it as an old-school conventional 3 tube arrangement for DD flights. You can tell where the joints between sections are by the way the orange stripe is misaligned. It is a solid rocket that can easily be flown completely stock with wood glue on H & I motors.

Don't feel rushed into getting your L1 or adding all the bells and whistles at first, but if you do choose to go 'all-in' you will have to learn a few extra techniques earlier rather than later.

Sandy.
I have built a number of LPR in the past but it has been a number of years. Yet those are just one tube with no motor assembly and the most complicated thing was getting the fins just right and with the plastic fin jig I had that was pretty simple.

I could try some MPR kits as well as the LOC IV. What are some good Medium power rocket kits? Bad directions are not just limited to rocket kits and I believe some of these companies write them assuming you have built these lots of times and can figure the in between steps. Or with the LOC IV that cluing on the end cover on the rocket motor assembly is not a good idea until you did the epoxy in the inside for the fins and installed the rail lug.
 

Scott_650

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I have built a number of LPR in the past but it has been a number of years. Yet those are just one tube with no motor assembly and the most complicated thing was getting the fins just right and with the plastic fin jig I had that was pretty simple.

I could try some MPR kits as well as the LOC IV. What are some good Medium power rocket kits? Bad directions are not just limited to rocket kits and I believe some of these companies write them assuming you have built these lots of times and can figure the in between steps. Or with the LOC IV that cluing on the end cover on the rocket motor assembly is not a good idea until you did the epoxy in the inside for the fins and installed the rail lug.
One of the best MPR kits I have experience with is the Balsa Machining Service 3” School Rockets. They have two variations - 24mm powered with balsa fins, 29mm powered with plywood fins. An extended payload bay and an av bay are optional along with recovery gear and rail buttons. They are great kits and really good flyers - quality parts and instructions plus very reasonable prices. The 24mm version is light enough if built with the included parts to fly well on Estes 24mm BP motors and the 29mm version can be flown on adapted Estes 24mm F motors. https://www.balsamachining.com/index.asp#
 

dr wogz

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I could try some MPR kits as well as the LOC IV. What are some good Medium power rocket kits? Bad directions are not just limited to rocket kits and I believe some of these companies write them assuming you have built these lots of times and can figure the in between steps. Or with the LOC IV that cluing on the end cover on the rocket motor assembly is not a good idea until you did the epoxy in the inside for the fins and installed the rail lug.
its somewhat expected, that by the time you are attempting your 'L1', that you've built a number of kits. Most / all teh larger "HPR" kits pretty much all build teh same way.

The book 'Modern High Powered Rocketry - 2nd edition" is highly recommended..

 

Sandy H.

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I have built a number of LPR in the past but it has been a number of years. Yet those are just one tube with no motor assembly and the most complicated thing was getting the fins just right and with the plastic fin jig I had that was pretty simple.

I could try some MPR kits as well as the LOC IV. What are some good Medium power rocket kits? Bad directions are not just limited to rocket kits and I believe some of these companies write them assuming you have built these lots of times and can figure the in between steps. Or with the LOC IV that cluing on the end cover on the rocket motor assembly is not a good idea until you did the epoxy in the inside for the fins and installed the rail lug.
The Estes Pro Series Der Big Max or Doorknob would have 'Estes style' directions but for bigger rockets. They are fun to have around anyway, so maybe pick one up if you find a good sale.

FYI, I wasn't saying to hold off on the LOC IV and build MPR's first, just that it was an option. I think if you just read a handful of build threads focusing on all cardboard/wood HPR rockets, you'll learn plenty to be able to build a great flying LOC IV. If you like having a lot of options, building some MPR's does help fill a void on flight day if winds are higher than expected or if you want to fly some lower flights on smaller fields, though.

Sandy.
 

dr wogz

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If I may share one of my build threads; 2 for the price of one! - shameless plug! :D

and post #19 is my 'fin alignment' gauge / method..

 

David_Stack

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LOC Precision av-bays/e-bays are ‘sized’ based on body tube diameter (and some are available in a ‘light’ variant). Since the LOC IV is a 4” diameter model, the ‘matching’ bay is the 3.9” model.

Assembly instructions for the empty bay itself are on the LOC website athttps://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0568/7489/3503/files/EB2-4Instructions1.pdf?v=1623655634. It’s up to the builder to decide upon the layout of the electronic components inside the bay, deployment charge methodology, etc.
 

kyle

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I couldn't find it yesterday, but the thread linked to above has examples of how people have put their bays together, from simple to simply awesome.
 
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Hi all
The LOC IV now has the capacity to have a Ebay or dual deployment. With the video made by Dave Thomas he talks about you can use a Ebay you can assemble from LOC. Anyone know what one for this rocket? What most people would put in a rocket of this size? Level 1 High powered rocket.

Andrew
I used their Av bay. I actually built two because the first one didn't fit club rules and I had drilled so many holes in it that I just started over. I didn't like the all thread going through and taking up space on the sled so I used a pair of bolt couplings on each end. I don't have any photos of that. The new version is posted on your other thread. Here's a few photos of how LOC intends for it to be built (I guess. Dr. Wogz is right, for a HP entry level rocket their instructions are not great):



 

waltr

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I like LOC kits for having almost everything you need in one bag. But, instructions are barely usable.
I read through the instructions just to be sure there isn't anything special then plan the build.
Two things one needs to plan for are: Rail buttons and motor retainer. Scock cords and chutes also get changed. I have build three LOC kits from 1.6" to 2.6". I like the heavy wall tubing, plywood fins and nose cones.

I did use one LOC 'AV bay' and it was horrible. Parts didn't fit and the all-tread had the worst threads I've ever seen. The nuts would not go onto the threads even with a vice and a wrench.
Ended up threading the ends of aluminum rods to replace the kit's threaded rods.
The bay ended up working and have an Eggtimer Quantum DD with 5 successful flights so far.
The Bay was used in their 2.6" IRIS kit.

Recently build an extenter (longer BT) School rocket with 29mm MMT and ply fins. Nice kit but not as heavy duty as the LOC tubes.
 

Frederocket

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I used their Av bay. I actually built two because the first one didn't fit club rules and I had drilled so many holes in it that I just started over. I didn't like the all thread going through and taking up space on the sled so I used a pair of bolt couplings on each end. I don't have any photos of that. The new version is posted on your other thread. Here's a few photos of how LOC intends for it to be built (I guess. Dr. Wogz is right, for a HP entry level rocket their instructions are not great):



Just for informational purposes, "what local club rules did your first LOC electronics bay, (EB) not comply with"? Having built the 4", 5.4", and 7.5" EB, I'm curious how building them as described would be a problem for any club concerned issue.
 
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Just for informational purposes, "what local club rules did your first LOC electronics bay, (EB) not comply with"? Having built the 4", 5.4", and 7.5" EB, I'm curious how building them as described would be a problem for any club concerned issue.
I understand :) I was surprised too. We launch on BLM land that has oil and gas production on it. The oil and gas sites are spread out quite a bit and I don't know the spacing (I could find out easily enough). To assuage fears from the producers (I work for one of them) the club offered that HP rockets should have dual, redundant, pyro charges. The senior members, all two of them, decided that meant two charges for the apogee ejection and two for the main, not just two igniters. Not required but some of us do it, is to separate the tracker from the ejection charges. The other guys all launch L3, Mach + high altitude (mid-20k), 40 - 60 pound rockets. A lawn dart with with of those is a significant "event" if it center punches oilfield equipment. I'm following along and learning so I'm good with the rule.

BTW - the cert launch was motor eject only. I think the rule changed when they did the annual re-up with the BLM.
 

Frederocket

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I understand :) I was surprised too. We launch on BLM land that has oil and gas production on it. The oil and gas sites are spread out quite a bit and I don't know the spacing (I could find out easily enough). To assuage fears from the producers (I work for one of them) the club offered that HP rockets should have dual, redundant, pyro charges. The senior members, all two of them, decided that meant two charges for the apogee ejection and two for the main, not just two igniters. Not required but some of us do it, is to separate the tracker from the ejection charges. The other guys all launch L3, Mach + high altitude (mid-20k), 40 - 60 pound rockets. A lawn dart with with of those is a significant "event" if it center punches oilfield equipment. I'm following along and learning so I'm good with the rule.

BTW - the cert launch was motor eject only. I think the rule changed when they did the annual re-up with the BLM.
Unless you are using two altimeters, using two charges per function is overkill and could result in damage to your rocket. As an example: Let's say for a calculated deployment charge of 2 grams, you now use two charges at 2 gram each, with two e-matches attached to each function, (both apogee and main). That is double the required separation charge required for apogee and/or main deployment. You might get away with not blowing up your air frame or you may not.

I'm preaty sure those L3 individuals are using redundant altimeters along with those multiple charges. On the other hand, I would be more concerned with allowing motor ejection cert flights, rather than requiring two charges per function on a single altimeter dual deploy set-up. That doesn't sound right.
 
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Two altimeters (EasyMini) and two charge wells on each end. Apogee +1s and Apogee +2s. Main is 800' and 750'. TeleMetrum in the nose for tracking.

You have to look at the photos in a different thread to see the setup. I'll save you that step. Not seen in the photo because they are on the back of the sled, I also used two 350mAh batteries in parallel for each of the computers.

The cert flight was fine. It was done before the rule change. They announced that the rules changed after they had the annual meeting with the BLM last year. I didn't read the changes :/ so when I went for the second launch I had to be a spectator for that one. Also fine. After that I met with one of the guys and he gave me a tour of his Av bay. I followed his method and I've had good recoveries ever since.

 

Rocketless

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I like LOC kits for having almost everything you need in one bag. But, instructions are barely usable.
I read through the instructions just to be sure there isn't anything special then plan the build.
Two things one needs to plan for are: Rail buttons and motor retainer. Scock cords and chutes also get changed. I have build three LOC kits from 1.6" to 2.6". I like the heavy wall tubing, plywood fins and nose cones.

I did use one LOC 'AV bay' and it was horrible. Parts didn't fit and the all-tread had the worst threads I've ever seen. The nuts would not go onto the threads even with a vice and a wrench.
Ended up threading the ends of aluminum rods to replace the kit's threaded rods.
The bay ended up working and have an Eggtimer Quantum DD with 5 successful flights so far.
The Bay was used in their 2.6" IRIS kit.

Recently build an extenter (longer BT) School rocket with 29mm MMT and ply fins. Nice kit but not as heavy duty as the LOC tubes.
What is the center of pressure with the standard extension tube for the 3 inch School Rocket?
 
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That makes sense, as you show two altimeters... I must not of understood what you were trying to say in the first post I responded to..
No problem I can see that I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

There's another thread about the LOC IV that I had responded to. I skipped the "updated" Av bay part in this one. The Av Bay that I posed first in this thread was for the motor deploy at "apogee" electronic deploy the chute at 800' cert flight.
 
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