Easyglas Questions

[Rocketmaniac]

I'm about ready to start on a large rocket and I want to use some EASYGLAS SOCK from Giant Leap that I have. But I have a few questions....

1. What is the best way to have the tube positioned to apply the epoxy?

2. Do you have to mix enough epoxy for the whole thing or can you make several batchs? (I am doing a 5.38" tube, 45" long"

3. Is my West System epoxy with #105 resin and #205 hardner ok for this job?

To give you some more background into this project...... 2 sections of 5.38" tube, 1 54mm and 2 29mm motor tubes (the motor mount is what I got from that guy who was selling all his high powered stuff.... TRF member "Manning") 1/8" or 3/16" G10 fins (3)..........

 

[Todd Knight]

Originally posted by Rocketmaniac


1. What is the best way to have the tube positioned to apply the epoxy?

2. Do you have to mix enough epoxy for the whole thing or can you make several batchs? (I am doing a 5.38" tube, 45" long"

3. Is my West System epoxy with #105 resin and #205 hardner ok for this job?

1. 2 X 4, old mop handle or the like supported by sawhorses. Lots of newspaper or plastic under.

2. rumour is the Easy Glass Sock requires an immence amount of resin to wet it out. Mix alot, you will use it. Have the pumps handy to mix more if you need it.

3. West system will work well.

As a final note, your rocket is going to end up heavy. It will probably struggle on most 38mm J's. Consider a 3" mount to increase your motor choices.

 

[JDcluster]

The best thing to do is: to buy a West System Gallon kit. It will be enough to cover the entire tube+ more. I'd use the 206 hardner instead, it's thinner & has a longer working time.

I usually go with about 6 pumps of West (gallon size set)
to first wet the tube then lay down the cloth & then wet out the cloth.

Be sure you peal ( DO NOT Try to Sand it ) off the glassine.
I would recommend at least 2 wraps of 6 or 7 oz fiberglass to make a real diifference in strength, otherwise you're just wasting your time & effort.


Get yourself some 3/4 PVC ( 1/2" will do , but more flimzy)pipe & some elbows & T-fittings & a couple of extra CRs to make a cheap laminating bed.
PVC is fairly cheap & can be picked at any HD or Lowes.


The 54mm & 2-29mm will be fine, now that AMW & CTI have some nice L motors in 54mm size.

If you use G10 1/8" or .125 will do.


JD

Originally posted by Rocketmaniac
I'm about ready to start on a large rocket and I want to use some EASYGLAS SOCK from Giant Leap that I have. But I have a few questions....

1. What is the best way to have the tube positioned to apply the epoxy?

2. Do you have to mix enough epoxy for the whole thing or can you make several batchs? (I am doing a 5.38" tube, 45" long"

3. Is my West System epoxy with #105 resin and #205 hardner ok for this job?

To give you some more background into this project...... 2 sections of 5.38" tube, 1 54mm and 2 29mm motor tubes (the motor mount is what I got from that guy who was selling all his high powered stuff.... TRF member "Manning") 1/8" or 3/16" G10 fins (3)..........

 

[Rocketmaniac]

Originally posted by Todd Knight
1. 2 X 4, old mop handle or the like supported by sawhorses. Lots of newspaper or plastic under.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how do you use the old mop handle? The Easyglas goes over each end and you pull it together with a twist-tie or rubber band. Or do you pull it "around the mop handle and then tie it?

Originally posted by Todd Knight
2. rumour is the Easy Glass Sock requires an immence amount of resin to wet it out. Mix alot, you will use it.

Originally posted by Todd Knight
As a final note, your rocket is going to end up heavy. It will probably struggle on most 38mm J's. Consider a 3" mount to increase your motor choices. [/B]

Well, the motor tubes (54mm and 2 29mm) are already built. Not by me, but whole thing is done....... How much weight will it add? Each tube weights 2lbs right now, it shouldn't add twice as much weight, right?

 

[Rocketmaniac]

Originally posted by JDcluster
Be sure you peal ( DO NOT Try to Sand it ) off the glassine.
I would recommend at least 2 wraps of 6 or 7 oz fiberglass to make a real diifference in strength, otherwise you're just wasting your time & effort.

Are you talking about actually fiberglass? I was planning on using my Easyglas sock I have. I am using LOC tubes if this makes any difference.

Originally posted by JDcluster
The 54mm & 2-29mm will be fine, now that AMW & CTI have some nice L motors in 54mm size. [/B]

Yea, I don't need it to go to the moon. I actually like slow take-offs..... I was looking at the K185 and wondering if it was possible to actually find one of these bad boys!!!!!

Originally posted by JDcluster
If you use G10 1/8" or .125 will do. [/B]

Fins, motor tubes and centering rings are already done..... This is how I purchased the whole thing....... pre-built......

 

[Todd Knight]

To use a mop handle, or anything thru the tube, just make a centering ring out of cardboard or whatever, run the handle thru it and zip tie the sock to the handle to stretch it out. When using a sock do not, I repeat, do not wet the tube first. You will not be able to get the sock over the tube once it is wetted out.

The glassine is the glossy/waxy outer most layer of paper on the tube. Start at one end, there will be a corner, and just peel it off. You will be left with a tube that is a little fuzzy. Do not try to sand it smooth, the laminate will make it smooth. Peeling the glassine allows the epoxy to wick into the tube.

I will second the buying of West System in the gallon kit, you will use alot. And, use the 206 hardener, pot life is longer.

Expect 10-15 pounds when you are done. A K-185, even if you could find one, will not have enough kick off the pad by itself. If you ground started a couple of Blue Thunder 29mm I's to get it going it would work.

I had a magnum that weighed in 10 -12 pounds that I flew a couple of the CTI 6 grain motors off an 8' rail as a test and only got 1300'. Since then it has been flown on K-700's to around 6000'

The 3" motor mount was just an idea. I've never said, Gee, I wish I had a smaller motor mount.

Also, make sure you do not glue the coupler in. Spend a few bucks and buy the Loc electronics bay or make your own. Even if you are not going to use it now you probably will later on.

Also think about running some conduit thru the centering rings to do airstarts. $5 worth of brass tubing now versus building a new booster section later.

There was a link from EMRR to a guy who built a Magnum with all this stuff we are talking about. It is worth a visit.

 

[JDcluster]

I doubt it would be able to lift it alone. The K185 is good for 10-12lb rockets MAX, Keep in mind at least a 4:1 power to weight ratio; A J 350 or a J 275 might be a better choice.

I flew my Magnum on a J 275 & 2-G's awhile back & had a gentle take-off, it weighed in around 15lbs loaded without glass.

2 full tubes + the glass job you'll be well into the 16lb range..
If you still want the K 185 , you could make it work by adding 2-H180 or 128's.


JD



>>>>Yea, I don't need it to go to the moon. I actually like slow take-offs..... I was looking at the K185 and wondering if it was possible to actually find one of these bad boys!!!!!



Fins, motor tubes and centering rings are already done..... This is how I purchased the whole thing....... pre-built...... [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Johnnie]

I used both the kevlar sock, and the glass sock on my 5.5" Standard arm, and I can tell ya, they are "drinkers"

To laminate 90" of bodytubing, it took 4 qts. of epoxy. I laminated the Kevlar sock fist, let it cure, then I laminated the glass sock on. This is kind of un-fair to you, since the tube had already been laminted so I can't tell you how much epoxy it would have used.

Both of these socks add significant thickness to the tubing.

As for added weight, that is what I was going for. I added the weight because I have the 76mm mount in hopes of a future L3.

 

[gerbs4me]

keep us posted on this project

 

[Rocketmaniac]

My questions about this EasyGlas sock are really for two projects.........

1. (2) pieces of 5.38" LOC tube and standard nosecone, 54mm and (2) 29mm motor tubes, (3) 1/8 G10 fins........ Motor tube / Fin Can is already done, can't modify it...........

2. (2) pieces of 5.38" LOC tube and standard nosecone. 4" (75mm) motor tube. This rocket is just in pieces and I can modify all I want. I am planning to use a Hybrid "L" grain motor. IE I must have a very long motor tube to support the grain and 1600cc (???) tank....... This rocket is my test rocket for my L3 project..... I will build my L3 rocket just like this one, except with 7.5" body tube and will use the Hybrid "M" grain motor......

So....... Do I need to fiberglass / easyglas these rockets?

 

[Todd Knight]

Check the length of the motor including the tank. I don't believe you have to have the entire tank inside the motor tube but.... Call or e-mail Barry Lynch at LOC. He is also a big hybrid flyer and I am sure he would give you the proper advise on using his components with your motor selection.

As far as the Easyglass sock goes, I don't like it as well as traditional fiberglass. The strength does not come from the resin but from the matrix of the fiberglass cloth. For example, 6 oz. glass with 8 oz. of epoxy is just as strong as 6 oz. fiberglass with 24 oz. of epoxy. The Easyglass sock doesn't really have a matrix so your only adding a little stregth and alot of weight (the epoxy).

If you like the sock idea look at Aerosleeves or something that uses real fiberglass for the sock. Also check out John Coker's site. The ShadowAero videos are also very good. Both use vaccuming of one form or another but to save money you can spuegee out the excess. You want as little epoxy as possible left when you are done.

A 7.5" rocket built properly will fly on an M with no FG and no problems. You will not get to the speeds that can cause structural failures. But, Fiberglass adds insurance on the recovery. Most L3 failures are recovery related, generally the main coming out at apogee. Alot of times this is due to the large amount of ballast in the nosecone used to offset the ton Fiberglass and epoxy in the booster/payload sections. The shear pins do not hold when the apogee charge goes off .

The moral of the story. I think a sane amount of reinfocement is a very good thing. Leave the allthread at Home Depot and you don't need 5 lavers of 10oz. glass or 1/2" g-10 fins.

Have fun, Talk to your TAP/L3CC members, they voluntered to help you personally with these questions. They got there positions because they fly at this level and know what they are talking about.

 

[Rocketmaniac]

I am almost certain I will fiberglass my L3 project......


I am just thinking about these two project that are not as big..... The cluster rocket might hold a K550 and (2) H220s..... Will I need fiberglass / easyglas sock for this much thrust?

 

[Todd Knight]

Posted by Rocketmaniac,
I am just thinking about these two project that are not as big..... The cluster rocket might hold a K550 and (2) H220s..... Will I need fiberglass / easyglas sock for this much thrust?



Boost no. Recovery odds are better with the reinforcement. Also durability is better. I watched a 5.5" Loc tubed rocket fly 2 weeks ago on an L-1120 (now M-1239) with no reinforcement. Have flown my old magnum on K-700s. I now have a stretched Loc Big 3E that will fly pretty much L-M only. It has the Aerosleeve on it. I decided to add the reinforcement because this will be my primary EX flyer and I hope to get many flights out of it.