easy fillets with West System Six10 thickened epoxy

[Dave S.]

I made some fillets that were a breeze,

First, I drilled a hole in a 3/4 inch diameter wooden ball so I could insert and epoxy in place a short section of wooden dowel. I ended up with what looked just like a drumstick.

I then used some old style carbon paper and the "drumstick" to mark out the areas where the fillets will go. I used those lines to place my blue painter's tape. Much more accurate placement of the tape this way

I then put some very thin epoxy in where each fin meets the body tube. I did this one at a time to make sure there was a good joint between the fins and the body tube under where the fillets were going to be.

After those were all cured, I made all the fillets at once. I used West System Six10 epoxy that comes in a standard caulk gun tube. I applied the Six10 with the caulk gun at the fin/body tube joint and did the draw with the ball of the drumstick.

In between each draw with the drumstick I wiped the excess epoxy off with some paper towels, dipped the drumstick in some 90% alcohol I had handy in a disposable paper bowl, and was ready to go for the next fillet.

After all the fillets were done, I removed the painter's tape and let the whole thing cure overnight. In the morning it was all done and looked great!

This is the easy way to do fillets fer sure.

 

[jkovac]

Thanks for posting this. I am about to try Six10 for the first time. When you say you did all of the fillets at once, do you literally mean one right after the other, with no set or curing time between fillets?

 

[Dave S.]

Thanks for posting this. I am about to try Six10 for the first time. When you say you did all of the fillets at once, do you literally mean one right after the other, with no set or curing time between fillets?

For the "pre-fillets" where I first put thin hobby store epoxy into the crack joint where the fin meets the body tube, I did a couple and allowed them to cure before doing more. I needed to, or that epoxy would have run everywhere.

For the main fillets I made with Six10 - no set or curing time between fillets.

This was a 4 inch diameter 3 fin rocket. I am pretty sure the wooden ball I used was 3/4 inch diameter. I got a bag of 100 of them from Amazon or a local craft shop for less than $10. I made up 6 or more of those drumsticks things, but only ended up using one of them for all the fillets.

This Six10 stuff is thick. It took some good hard squeezes on that caulk gun to get it to come out. I did cut the dispenser nozzle down a bit so more would flow out, but it's still pretty thick. After all were applied and "drawn" with my drumstick, I removed all the tape and set it back in a cradle I made w/ an old cardboard box. The epoxy fillets cured overnight w/ the rocket body tube horizontal in the cradle.

They say you should toss the initial epoxy coming out of the tube's tip attachment because it won't be mixed properly in the right proportions.

I used that home-made drumstick thing, but you could use a popsicle stick or a metal socket or whatever instead. I would say that after you draw each fillet to make sure you wipe off the excess epoxy from your tool, then dip it in the rubbing alcohol before moving on to the next one.

I am no expert at this. I'm just a beginner. This was something I tried and it was so easy compared to what I did last time I couldn't believe it. Last time I made two rockets w/ Bob Smith epoxy with fumed silica cab-o-sil thickener added. One of those fillets was so bad I had to dremel it out and do it all over again.

This Six10 stuff is expensive, but is sooo much easier to use.

Another advantage of the Six10 is that it does not set up right away - using it was relaxing - no rush at all. Even when I use 30 minute hobby store epoxy I feel like I'm racing the clock.


Good luck!

 

[rharshberger]

For the ball on a stick spreader/former you can also buy a set of fondant tools that has multiple ball sizes. The link below is just one of many options on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Amytalk-Fondant-Decorating-Double-Modeling/dp/B07T33CWDF/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=fondant+tools+and+accessories&qid=1673678005&sr=8-3

 

[UPscaler]

Love this stuff! I did all 8 fillets on my full scale Arcas with this without adding any thickening agents. Doesn't run and it sands super nice! Great stuff.

Braden

 

[Hobie1dog]

that stuff is really expensive, if you want something that's just as good but one third of the price you should try Global Adhesives GEP 110- 50b. you do have to purchase a cartridge gun to apply with as the cartridges fit in the gun easily and the tips are bought usually in a group
http://www.globaladhesives.net/epoxy_and_structural.htm. The epoxy is self leveling so you get results like this.

 

[Hobie1dog]

the cartridges and the gun, and the tips, are in the top photo.

 

[Wayco]

Love this stuff! I did all 8 fillets on my full scale Arcas with this without adding any thickening agents. Doesn't run and it sands super nice! Great stuff.

Braden

Did you use the entire tube, or did it take more than one tube to do them? I saw where you can buy extra tips, just wondering if the tube can be saved for later applications.

 

[KenECoyote]

that stuff is really expensive, if you want something that's just as good but one third of the price you should try Global Adhesives GEP 110- 50b. you do have to purchase a cartridge gun to apply with as the cartridges fit in the gun easily and the tips are bought usually in a group
http://www.globaladhesives.net/epoxy_and_structural.htm. The epoxy is self leveling so you get results like this.

the cartridges and the gun, and the tips, are in the top photo.

Looks great, but how much are the guns and where can you get them?
Also that website is pretty poor imo... categories are confusing, pics weren't showing and when I searched for "epoxy", nothing came up!

 

[David Schwantz]

Never used the epoxy in the post, but I use the guns with the tips for Hysol 9462 for the last 20 years. If you put the tips in the fridge and let them warm before reuse, they are reusable.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Looks great, but how much are the guns and where can you get them?
Also that website is pretty poor imo... categories are confusing, pics weren't showing and when I searched for "epoxy", nothing came up!

here's one of the guns with a great picture on Ebay, $16.00
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202047262194

 

[Hobie1dog]

yes the website leaves a little to be desired but the cartridges are $7 each.

 

[UPscaler]

Did you use the entire tube, or did it take more than one tube to do them? I saw where you can buy extra tips, just wondering if the tube can be saved for later applications.

I used maybe about half of it. My dad used it for fillets on a 5" Goblin, too, and I believe there's still a little left.

Braden

 

[Wayco]

Wildman mentioned this new West Systems 610 and how you can run all your fillets in one go. I remembered the conversation, but forgot the name until this thread. He said good luck finding it, and when I did a search on Amazon, it came up with Thixo:
https://www.amazon.com/TotalBoat-Thixo-Thickened-Adhesive-Cartridge/dp/B00HRG875K/ref=sr_1_2?crid=VNRC7516M8TU&keywords=west+system+610+thickened+epoxy+adhesive&qid=1673720961&sprefix=,aps,170&sr=8-2

which is considerably less expensive that the 610 that I found at Walmart:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/610-Resi...LEXjD-B0TlE_HrcmVcC6Ae0TeX2_HC2RoCwQYQAvD_BwE

I ordered both this morning, mainly because Walmart can't deliver the 610 until next week sometime, and Amazon will probably have it here later today. I'm injecting internal fillets today, using WS 105/205 with a pinch of chopped carbon fiber. This is an old technique used by Wildman and CJ, and I've been using it for many years myself.
I've also been using Rocketpoxy for structural adhesive and external fillets, but don't really like how it "self levels" out to a flat fillet. Whereas, the 610 appears to stay concave, as shown in Dave's picture here:

I know it just astetics, and both are plenty strong, but I prefer the concave look, and have spent plenty of time sanding down Rocketpoxy to get it.

I used maybe about half of it. My dad used it for fillets on a 5" Goblin, too, and I believe there's still a little left.

Braden

Thanks Brandon, I'm working on my 5" fincan for "Jughead" now, and the root chord on it's fins is 19". I should have enough for Sharon's next build, which will probably be next week sometime. I will order an extra set of tips too.

 

[Dave S.]

I got my Six10 and extra nozzles from Amazon.

By the way I got some West System 105/206 epoxy from a boat store near me called West Marine. West Marine was charging the same price as Amazon for the two part stuff. I don’t think the boat store and the epoxy company are related.

 

[rharshberger]

I got my Six10 and extra nozzles from Amazon.

By the way I got some West System 105/206 epoxy from a boat store near me called West Marine. West Marine was charging the same price as Amazon for the two part stuff. I don’t think the boat store and the epoxy company are related.

Never seen a West Marine that didn't carry West System...West System is actually formulated for building...well....boats. West Systems is THE most commonly recommended and may be the standard for stitch and glue or plywood composite boat building, you are correct though West Systems and West Marine are not owned by the same company Gougeon Brothers owns West System and a L Catterton owns West Marine.

 

[Dave S.]

I got mine from Amazon, but apparently they are out of stock at the moment.

This Wildman youtube video on Six10 is worth watching:

 

[4regt4]

Kind of off topic, but I've wondered how these single cartridge systems get an adequate mix of the 2 parts.

Hans.

 

[WILDMANRS]

Wildman mentioned this new West Systems 610 and how you can run all your fillets in one go. I remembered the conversation, but forgot the name until this thread. He said good luck finding it, and when I did a search on Amazon, it came up with Thixo:
https://www.amazon.com/TotalBoat-Thixo-Thickened-Adhesive-Cartridge/dp/B00HRG875K/ref=sr_1_2?crid=VNRC7516M8TU&keywords=west+system+610+thickened+epoxy+adhesive&qid=1673720961&sprefix=,aps,170&sr=8-2

which is considerably less expensive that the 610 that I found at Walmart:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/610-Resi...LEXjD-B0TlE_HrcmVcC6Ae0TeX2_HC2RoCwQYQAvD_BwE

I ordered both this morning, mainly because Walmart can't deliver the 610 until next week sometime, and Amazon will probably have it here later today. I'm injecting internal fillets today, using WS 105/205 with a pinch of chopped carbon fiber. This is an old technique used by Wildman and CJ, and I've been using it for many years myself.
I've also been using Rocketpoxy for structural adhesive and external fillets, but don't really like how it "self levels" out to a flat fillet. Whereas, the 610 appears to stay concave, as shown in Dave's picture here:
View attachment 557063
I know it just astetics, and both are plenty strong, but I prefer the concave look, and have spent plenty of time sanding down Rocketpoxy to get it.


Thanks Brandon, I'm working on my 5" fincan for "Jughead" now, and the root chord on it's fins is 19". I should have enough for Sharon's next build, which will probably be next week sometime. I will order an extra set of tips too.

Wayco please let me know what you think of the Thixo compared to the six10.

 

[rharshberger]

Kind of off topic, but I've wondered how these single cartridge systems get an adequate mix of the 2 parts.

Hans.

The cartridges uses tips that have a fixed helix mixing insert in them, as the epoxy parts are pushed through the tip they are mixed, the tips are size to ensure the epoxy is mixed by the time they get to the end. The epoxy can also be pushed out onto a mixing board and mixed manually if only a small quantity is desired. The tips are single use, and waste a small amount of epoxy but are also convenient if you are using the entire cartridge.

 

[DES]

Another West Systems pre-thickened epoxy that makes great fillets is the G-Flex thicken epoxy. Very nice consistency, similar to the six10. What I like about the G Flex is that it does have a bit of flexibility and ductility ( = toughness) to it. It is not brittle. This is especially useful on fiberglass rockets when a fin flexes on a hard landing.

 

[Wayco]

Wayco please let me know what you think of the Thixo compared to the six10.

Will do, I'm planning to follow this thread and make comments as we go.

Thixo showed up yesterday, too late to work with it. Walmart says the Six 10 will show up tomorrow.
Finished up the internals on a scratch built 5" fincan yesterday, and started sanding and taping for external fillets this morning around 9:30.
After watching the Wildman video again, I found a 3/4" PVC coupler to run the fillets with and opened the Thixo. Wiped down the area with acetone and laid in the first bead. Wet the coupler with alcohol and pulled it through. First bead was a bit too much, so I took a putty knife and scraped the excess off the tape. This was really easy to do, because this stuff is going NOWHERE. Applied the leftovers to the next trough, and added a smaller bead:



Rotated the 5" tube and repeated the process, using less and less epoxy with each application. Scraping off excess got easier, and the last fillet was done in less than 20 minutes. Cleanup was done by 10:30! Sanding, taping, futsing around looking for the right size PVC, running out six 19" fillets, pulling the tape and touching up the ends, all in about an hour.



Used less than 1/2 of the tube, and these are big fillets on a big fincan. Here's what's left:



The cup on the left with the tip on it is what I squirted out at first to get an even mix. The cup in the middle is alcohol I used to dip the coupler in and clean up, which was practically non-existant. The cup on the right is the waste from the last fillet.
Two hours after I finished and the epoxy is still soft, curing in a 78* room. I could probably squeeze the used tip and make another application.

 

[bjphoenix]

Kind of off topic, but I've wondered how these single cartridge systems get an adequate mix of the 2 parts.

In post #22 there is a photo of one of the tips in which you can see the little baffles in the tip that facilitate mixing of the epoxy as it travels through there.

A lot of this type of epoxy is used in building construction using similar tubes and mixing nozzles. Companies like Hilti, Simpson and DeWalt each make a lot of it.

 

[conneryc]

Deleted

 

[jmasterj]

Another West Systems pre-thickened epoxy that makes great fillets is the G-Flex thicken epoxy. Very nice consistency, similar to the six10. What I like about the G Flex is that it does have a bit of flexibility and ductility ( = toughness) to it. It is not brittle. This is especially useful on fiberglass rockets when a fin flexes on a hard landing.

I have used this with success. Same as @Wayco above, got all the fillets done in one go. Much smaller rocket and I mixed manually though. The thick g-flex is 6:5 by weight but 1:1 by volume.

 

[G's Monster Rocket]

I have used this with success. Same as @Wayco above, got all the fillets done in one go. Much smaller rocket and I mixed manually though. The thick g-flex is 6:5 by weight but 1:1 by volume.

I found Thixo quick setting epoxy to be great for running fillets on just about any size body/fin. I can place either 3 or 4 fins / fillets in less than 30 minutes, clean them up and let them set overnight. 95 percent of them come out great. Only rarely does the mixture get wonky in the baffle tube dispenser nozzles and lay down with incorrectly ratios (which when that happens-the thixo stays sticky and I have to remove it and replace it a day or so later).

The nozzles are one shot only - 30 minutes after finishing the dispensing the epoxy left in the nozzle is curing and wont allow any more to flow. Then I replace the nozzle. Yes, it's expensive, but time saved is worth it. No damming for runny epoxy and easy clean up with rubbing alcohol.

 

[jmasterj]

I found Thixo quick setting epoxy to be great for running fillets on just about any size body/fin. I can place either 3 or 4 fins / fillets in less than 30 minutes, clean them up and let them set overnight. 95 percent of them come out great. Only rarely does the mixture get wonky in the baffle tube dispenser nozzles and lay down with incorrectly ratios (which when that happens-the thixo stays sticky and I have to remove it and replace it a day or so later).

The nozzles are one shot only - 30 minutes after finishing the dispensing the epoxy left in the nozzle is curing and wont allow any more to flow. Then I replace the nozzle. Yes, it's expensive, but time saved is worth it. No damming for runny epoxy and easy clean up with rubbing alcohol.

I thought about buying Thixo but didn't want to buy more nozzles. Weighted mixing has been fine for me so far, though I haven't done any huge fillets yet.

 

[G's Monster Rocket]

Actually used the West Systems 2:1 mixing nozzles on the Total Boat Thixo stuff. Worked just fine. Nozzles are still a one time use thing though.

 

[Dave S.]

For the ball on a stick spreader/former you can also buy a set of fondant tools that has multiple ball sizes. The link below is just one of many options on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Amytalk-Fondant-Decorating-Double-Modeling/dp/B07T33CWDF/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=fondant+tools+and+accessories&qid=1673678005&sr=8-3

Thanks for the tip. I got some of those now. Maybe I’ll try them on another build.

 

[cwbullet]

For the ball on a stick spreader/former you can also buy a set of fondant tools that has multiple ball sizes. The link below is just one of many options on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Amytalk-Fondant-Decorating-Double-Modeling/dp/B07T33CWDF/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=fondant+tools+and+accessories&qid=1673678005&sr=8-3

I have used those also. I also like to use Bondo-type automotive spreaders and these small hobby spreaders. The smaller ones are great for willing spirals.