Don't Call It A Bottle Rocket, 'Cause Some Folks Will Go Nuts

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

lakeroadster

👀 Oddroc Scum 👀 CAD Monkey Swingkinder
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
3,959
Location
Central Colorado
What's in a name?

This seems like a great design, and a great performer. But if you call it a bottle rocket some folks seem to hate it.

I posted this design on the Estes Model Rockets Facebook page and all hell broke loose.

It's basically just a D12-3 motor (or an E12-4), a BT-50H Body with a piece of carbon fiber tube (an arrow shaft) attached to it, an 8" parachute, Kevlar shock chord and a launch lug.

If you're worried about the chute coming out during flight, cut the end off the finger of a nitrile glove and slide the finger tip over the body tube.

I mean we've all seen bottle rocket's fly, we know they're stable. And this one has a recovery device.

So what's the consensus here, any reason this isn't an acceptable design? :questions:
 

Attachments

  • D-12 Bottle Rocket Photo Studio.jpg
    D-12 Bottle Rocket Photo Studio.jpg
    41 KB · Views: 104
  • Bottle Rocket Open Rocket Simulation.jpg
    Bottle Rocket Open Rocket Simulation.jpg
    97.7 KB · Views: 102
  • Bottle Rocket.ork
    1.8 KB · Views: 8
Last edited:

Scott_650

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
1,026
Location
Louisville OH
Well, I didn’t see anything about this on FB but as long as it has some kind of recovery setup it would probably be ok at one of our club launches as a “heads up” flight. Our club officials are fairly lenient when it comes to heads up flights. Do I personally care for it - both the execution or the appearance? No, making even an oddroc look like fireworks is definitely not to my taste (I find consumer grade fireworks to be an absolute nuisance and wouldn’t shed a tear if they ceased to exist above the level of sparklers, those black snake pellets and pop on impact snappers…and maybe cap gun caps). But my feelings about the esthetics of a rocket have no value in a discussion of whether it’s stable and safe - not my thing and I’d probably ignore it being launched to prep something for flight but hey, you be you as long as nothing gets broken and nobody gets hurt.
 

K'Tesh

OpenRocket Chuck Norris
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
19,612
Reaction score
10,043
I've seen scarier rockets fly... I don't see how it would be a problem if you can show it has a recovery device suitable to bring it down safely.

As to the idea that it's based on a firework, I'd argue that it's based on a primitive black powder rocket (and I've simmed up something similar myself (though I was basing the body tube on bamboo)).
 
Last edited:

lakeroadster

👀 Oddroc Scum 👀 CAD Monkey Swingkinder
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
3,959
Location
Central Colorado
Well, I didn’t see anything about this on FB but as long as it has some kind of recovery setup it would probably be ok at one of our club launches as a “heads up” flight. Our club officials are fairly lenient when it comes to heads up flights. Do I personally care for it - both the execution or the appearance? No, making even an oddroc look like fireworks is definitely not to my taste (I find consumer grade fireworks to be an absolute nuisance and wouldn’t shed a tear if they ceased to exist above the level of sparklers, those black snake pellets and pop on impact snappers…and maybe cap gun caps). But my feelings about the esthetics of a rocket have no value in a discussion of whether it’s stable and safe - not my thing and I’d probably ignore it being launched to prep something for flight but hey, you be you as long as nothing gets broken and nobody gets hurt.

I'm really "rabid" against fireworks. I'd like to see the sale of them banned except for professional displays.

The psychological damage they do to animals and folks with PTSD, not to mention the chance of wildfires, makes the sale of them a non-starter. States ban the sales of them, yet look the other way when they are used. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
8,408
Reaction score
7,257
Location
Hawaii
I haven't seen the Facebook post, by the time I heard about it the post had already been taken down.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I heard it was that you called a well known master modeller an "idiot" after he pointed out that we do not want to be associated with fireworks.
 

lakeroadster

👀 Oddroc Scum 👀 CAD Monkey Swingkinder
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
3,959
Location
Central Colorado
I haven't seen the Facebook post, by the time I heard about it the post had already been taken down.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I heard it was that you called a well known master modeller an "idiot" after he pointed out that we do not want to be associated with fireworks.

That's incorrect. I didn't call anyone an idiot. A member did post a meme, calling me an idiot though. And other folks started calling other folks names. That's when I deleted the thread.

The guy that called me an idiot, got banned from one of the rocketry sites... and he was a moderator at that site. Go figure.
 
Last edited:

lakeroadster

👀 Oddroc Scum 👀 CAD Monkey Swingkinder
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
3,959
Location
Central Colorado
Well, at least you know now what NOT to post on the Estes Facebook page.
By the way, what do you think is the best glue for.....
Never mind.

I think alcohol may have been involved (not on my part) ... it kind of reminded me of the DC Comics Bizarro strip. The stuff that was being said was really nasty, and by some folk that aren't usually that way. The Estes site is usually rated PG.

1638237032126.png
 

teepot

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Messages
2,588
Reaction score
2,280
Location
Pahrump, Nevada
I like it. I like all the different stuff. Personally I'm burned out with 3-4 fins and a nose cone. For a while I'll only be building the unique.
 

boatgeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
4,533
Reaction score
3,568
I've seen scarier rockets fly... I don't see how it would be a problem if you can show it has a recovery device suitable to bring it down safely.

As to the idea that it's based on a firework, I'd argue that it's based on a primitive black powder rocket (and I've simmed up something similar myself (though I was basing the body tube on bamboo)).

Take it to Red Glare, stuff a red motor in, and call it a downscale Congreve! :headspinning:
 
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
2,612
Location
Oahu, Hawaii
I haven't seen the Facebook post, by the time I heard about it the post had already been taken down.
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I heard it was that you called a well known master modeller an "idiot" after he pointed out that we do not want to be associated with fireworks.
Actually, a troll had called Chris Michaels an idiot and I followed up with calling the troll an idiot. Don't remember the trolls name but definitely wasn't @lakeroadster.

I posted that I wouldn't mind making a "BR" rocket in spite of whomever keeps calling the cops on us for setting off fireworks in the park. As we witnessed at our night launch last week, there's a lot of aerials being set off in the neighborhood. The difference being that ours would be sanctioned.

Speaking of bottle rockets...

 
Last edited:

Grog6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
637
Reaction score
507
Location
Oak Ridge TN
I personally love fireworks;but I realize the opposition to them.
The level of care is the big difference. We actually care what happens when it goes, as opposed to most fireworks.
There are people I don't allow to join in our standard July 4th or new years celebration, due to severe idiocy.
I have no interest in building fireworks.Store bought are bad enough,lol.
I keep my rocketry very separate.
 

Huxter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
770
Reaction score
585
Location
Northern Utah
I like that bottle rocket! No-one at a launch should confuse that for the real firework (idiots 😁 )

I agree tho - be careful what you say! When I say "Model Rocket" and/or "Bottle Rocket", they sound quite similar! So I really have to stress the M in "Model Rockets" when explaining my hobby to people! :p
 

timbucktoo

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Global Mod
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
9,391
Reaction score
1,852
Location
Cocoa Beach
Some guy at my club kept trying to fly one of those bottle rockets but it never flew straight. He finally gave up.
 

Antares JS

Professional Amateur
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
2,246
Reaction score
3,630
Location
Eastern Shore, VA
I think it's fine. I would let it fly as a heads-up flight. A huge high-power "bottle rocket" flew fine on a K at LDRS 22. The builders even made a giant foam bottle for a launch pad. The only problem was the parachute not opening after deploying. (I saw this on Discovery's "Rocket Challenge.")
 

Dotini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2021
Messages
749
Reaction score
612
Location
Seattle, Washington
What's in a name?

This seems like a great design, and a great performer. But if you call it a bottle rocket some folks seem to hate it.

I posted this design on the Estes Model Rockets Facebook page and all hell broke loose.

It's basically just a D12-3 motor (or an E12-4), a BT-50H Body with a piece of carbon fiber tube (an arrow shaft) attached to it, an 8" parachute, Kevlar shock chord and a launch lug.

If you're worried about the chute coming out during flight, cut the end off the finger of a nitrile glove and slide the finger tip over the body tube.

I mean we've all seen bottle rocket's fly, we know they're stable. And this one has a recovery device.

So what's the consensus here, any reason this isn't an acceptable design? :questions:
In my opinion, the design is sound and technically it meets at least some of the criteria of a model rocket. However, when I am at the local park flying my models, and a member of the public comes up and uses the term "fireworks", I take the time and effort to emphasize the very important difference between fireworks and model rocketry. Fireworks are prohibited at the park, but model rocketry is not, and I'd like to keep it that way. So, bottom line, anything that blurs the line between fireworks and model rockets is something that I need to personally avoid. In your locality it very well may be no issue at all.
 

lakeroadster

👀 Oddroc Scum 👀 CAD Monkey Swingkinder
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
3,959
Location
Central Colorado
In my opinion, the design is sound and technically it meets at least some of the criteria of a model rocket. However, when I am at the local park flying my models, and a member of the public comes up and uses the term "fireworks", I take the time and effort to emphasize the very important difference between fireworks and model rocketry. Fireworks are prohibited at the park, but model rocketry is not, and I'd like to keep it that way. So, bottom line, anything that blurs the line between fireworks and model rockets is something that I need to personally avoid. In your locality it very well may be no issue at all.

I've always launched on private property, so it's never been an issue. But sure, I get what you're saying.

The phrase "Land of the brave, home of the free" comes to mind. Folks in the hobby shouldn't have to dumb down or avoid a design altogether based on the lack of knowledge of the masses.
 

Dotini

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2021
Messages
749
Reaction score
612
Location
Seattle, Washington
I've always launched on private property, so it's never been an issue. But sure, I get what you're saying.

The phrase "Land of the brave, home of the free" comes to mind. Folks in the hobby shouldn't have to dumb down or avoid a design altogether based on the lack of knowledge of the masses.
Agreed - in an ideal world. Unfortunately, I live in the heart of Seattle, an uber-liberal/progressive community wherein bravery and freedom are not particularly honored or cherished. People who practice rocketry (and who, like me, sign the pledge to uphold the code) in such a community probably should take the extra effort to manifest the highest standards of tradition, behavior and comportment in order to help ensure our hobby survives the scrutiny of rigid political correctness and rampant social engineering. I envy those who don't have to put up with this charade, but it's sadly the case for me.
 

jqavins

Слава Україні
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
7,723
Reaction score
4,212
Location
Howard, NY
I see nothing wrong with a stick rocket, whether one thinks it resembles the hundreds of years old Chinese design or current day fireworks.

I see a potential issue with your design, and I may be all wet. Compared to commercial bottle rockets, and scaling from the length and diameter of the body tube, your stick is short. In RS, I can easily make a model that looks like a stick rocket and have the software tell me it's stable, but I wouldn't trust it since this is so far from the sorts of designs the software is made to handle. I can only assume the same for OR. So I'd probably make the stick longer, and I'd definitely swing test it.
1638295391751.png
 

boomtube-mk2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
2,238
Reaction score
1,908
So correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I heard it was that you called a well known master modeller an "idiot" after he pointed out that we do not want to be associated with fireworks.
Actually, a troll called Chris Michaels and idiot and I followed up with calling the troll an idiot.

1638295919480.png


As far as the rocket; I'd rather have a bottle-rocket in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy.
 
Joined
May 8, 2020
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
2,612
Location
Oahu, Hawaii

boomtube-mk2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
2,238
Reaction score
1,908
Two things that I think would affect "stability" in a "Bottle rocket" would be; the ratio between the length of the stick vs. the weight of the rocket, along with, just how straight and rigid that stick is.
 

jqavins

Слава Україні
Joined
Sep 29, 2011
Messages
7,723
Reaction score
4,212
Location
Howard, NY
I wonder what the total impulse is from one of the little fireworks bottle rockets. I was just thinking more about the stick length scaling and realizing it would be huge if scaled from those little guys up to a BT-50. But then, there are some larger fireworks stick rockets with stick length to "motor" size ratios that are not as great. I wonder is starting with a MicroMaxx design wouldn't be the way to go, so the stick length to scale with whatever example is used doesn't have to be too great. Get the idea dialed in, then try a mini-engine BT-5 design. After success there, one could probably go directly to 24 mm or larger; no need to go to 18 mm or take every other size step once the design requirements are well understood.

Hey, I found it! Skip ahead to about 7:30 for the bottle rocket.
Great editing; I just loved watching guys watching the rocket as it coasted up.
 
Top