# Does anyone discount Hobbyline anymore?

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#### JordanT

##### Well-Known Member
It's been a very slow couple of years for me in rocketry and I've been looking through my AT Hobbyline stash to see what I might need to get flying again.

Wildman was offering HL at 35% off at one point, but I just went to the site and (aside from it being cumbersome to navigate) everything looks like it's MSRP now. Am I reading correctly? Everybody else looks to be toeing the MSRP line as well (give or take a dollar or two).

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Pay attention to Wildmans upcoming Black Saturday sale and for Wildman club members the discounts on Wed of next week. Have you checked with CS Rocketry, or Balsa Machining (pre-order).

#### blackjack2564

##### Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
WM still does, just not showing up for some reason. You may have to sign in as Wild club member to see the discount....you can always call ya know. It's still there for sure.

#### Oberon

##### Well-Known Member
Speaking of Wildman, what’s up with their website? Everything Aerotech says “Sorry, there are no products in this collection”

#### jd2cylman

##### Still not Carl... ;-)
Speaking of Wildman, what’s up with their website? Everything Aerotech says “Sorry, there are no products in this collection”
Well, they were editing stuff on the website yesterday, maybe they're getting ready for the sales???

#### JordanT

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah, WM's new site is a dumpster fire. I'm sure it's now marginally navigable on a 4" phone, but it now takes 5x the clicks (or more) to find anything as product pages now reload the top menu rather than keeping the tree open. To see 38mm 240 product, then decide you want to look at 38mm 360 product requires drilling back down 4-5 levels.

And, of course, without the WM club prices on the site, there's just no way to know if what you want is discounted/competitive. I just can't justify throwing down $30 just to view the club prices. I'll see what's up on Saturday. #### WILDMANRS ##### Sponsor TRF Sponsor TRF Supporter Yeah, WM's new site is a dumpster fire. I'm sure it's now marginally navigable on a 4" phone, but it now takes 5x the clicks (or more) to find anything as product pages now reload the top menu rather than keeping the tree open. To see 38mm 240 product, then decide you want to look at 38mm 360 product requires drilling back down 4-5 levels. And, of course, without the WM club prices on the site, there's just no way to know if what you want is discounted/competitive. I just can't justify throwing down$30 just to view the club prices. I'll see what's up on Saturday.
Hi Jordan
I am sorry you don’t like the new site .
We have had a lot of positive comments on the new site .
Unfortunately we overloaded it last weekend.
One of the downfalls of the new site is it won’t show both club and regular prices,but it will now charge club prices if you are a club member ,the old one would not do that.
If you want to know a club price on a certain item you could always give us a call or send us an email .
Dumpster fire really ?

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#### JordanT

##### Well-Known Member
Dumpster fire really ?
Maybe click-wasteland? It's just really frustrating to navigate. It looks pretty, but it takes 4-5 submenus to get to get anywhere.

Let say I wanted to get a 29mm Aerotech motor. I click Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 120. And I'm taken to the product page. All I get are thumbnails of the graph. No information on Hazmat. No information on the motor (Ns, Duration, Type). No actual cost, just the MSRP (which is great if that's the selling price). But - Oh, hey, I want to see what you have for the 180NS case. Can I hit back and then select 180? Nope. I have to now click on Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 180. And heaven forbid I should want to buy something from the Hobbyline. That's where I found out that you can't get a list view - but I can click back and forth through multiple pages of thrust thumbnails. NBD - I'll just sort by Ns. Oh, no, that's not a sort option. I can sort alphabetically, which is fun for motors with, say, 5, 8, and 11 second delays - since they sort as 11, 5, and 8. Maybe I just want to pick up some non-Hazat motors, I'll just check the "non-Hazmat" box...oh, right, that doesn't exist. You know, I really only wanted to pick up some single use motors. Of course, they're on two separate pages since DMS and HL Single are two different categories. Bonus points: the engines sold as 2-packs aren't listed as such unless you click through. And every click through takes mulitple seconds to render, I presume because the pages are created dynamically.

Now I'm sure a lot of work went into filling the site with product, and I love some of the stuff you sell (and I'm addicted to your BW/BS sales), but I'm serious when I say it's got to be one of the most frustrating shopping experiences even when it's working as intended.

#### Normzilla

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe click-wasteland? It's just really frustrating to navigate. It looks pretty, but it takes 4-5 submenus to get to get anywhere.

Let say I wanted to get a 29mm Aerotech motor. I click Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 120. And I'm taken to the product page. All I get are thumbnails of the graph. No information on Hazmat. No information on the motor (Ns, Duration, Type). No actual cost, just the MSRP (which is great if that's the selling price). But - Oh, hey, I want to see what you have for the 180NS case. Can I hit back and then select 180? Nope. I have to now click on Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 180. And heaven forbid I should want to buy something from the Hobbyline. That's where I found out that you can't get a list view - but I can click back and forth through multiple pages of thrust thumbnails. NBD - I'll just sort by Ns. Oh, no, that's not a sort option. I can sort alphabetically, which is fun for motors with, say, 5, 8, and 11 second delays - since they sort as 11, 5, and 8. Maybe I just want to pick up some non-Hazat motors, I'll just check the "non-Hazmat" box...oh, right, that doesn't exist. You know, I really only wanted to pick up some single use motors. Of course, they're on two separate pages since DMS and HL Single are two different categories. Bonus points: the engines sold as 2-packs aren't listed as such unless you click through. And every click through takes mulitple seconds to render, I presume because the pages are created dynamically.

Now I'm sure a lot of work went into filling the site with product, and I love some of the stuff you sell (and I'm addicted to your BW/BS sales), but I'm serious when I say it's got to be one of the most frustrating shopping experiences even when it's working as intended.
Hey Tim, can ya ship my order before his?

I appreciate all the work you've put into the business.

LOL. I kid...

...but seriously ship mine first.

I KID!!

...kinda

#### Eric

##### Well-Known Member
Wow... What a complainer this guy is.

You really have a hard time throwing down $30??? If you know about Tim's sale prices and history. Then it's a no brainer being a club member. Stop sounding like a tool. "I have to click 4-5 times..... Waaaaaah... " wow dude. Call Estes and get free shipping and a Christmas tree ornament with your low-power order and easy-to-navigate site I'll take the$800+ in savings last week, pay \$30 and click as many times as Tim wants me to.

Tim and Jackie, take all the time you need with my order. I appreciate all you do.

#### rcktnut

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe click-wasteland? It's just really frustrating to navigate. It looks pretty, but it takes 4-5 submenus to get to get anywhere.

Let say I wanted to get a 29mm Aerotech motor. I click Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 120. And I'm taken to the product page. All I get are thumbnails of the graph. No information on Hazmat. No information on the motor (Ns, Duration, Type). No actual cost, just the MSRP (which is great if that's the selling price). But - Oh, hey, I want to see what you have for the 180NS case. Can I hit back and then select 180? Nope. I have to now click on Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 180. And heaven forbid I should want to buy something from the Hobbyline. That's where I found out that you can't get a list view - but I can click back and forth through multiple pages of thrust thumbnails. NBD - I'll just sort by Ns. Oh, no, that's not a sort option. I can sort alphabetically, which is fun for motors with, say, 5, 8, and 11 second delays - since they sort as 11, 5, and 8. Maybe I just want to pick up some non-Hazat motors, I'll just check the "non-Hazmat" box...oh, right, that doesn't exist. You know, I really only wanted to pick up some single use motors. Of course, they're on two separate pages since DMS and HL Single are two different categories. Bonus points: the engines sold as 2-packs aren't listed as such unless you click through. And every click through takes mulitple seconds to render, I presume because the pages are created dynamically.

Now I'm sure a lot of work went into filling the site with product, and I love some of the stuff you sell (and I'm addicted to your BW/BS sales), but I'm serious when I say it's got to be one of the most frustrating shopping experiences even when it's working as intended.

Fantastic vendor, but have to agree about navigating the website. I'm not the only one around here saying that either. Old website was better IMO, and others opinions.

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
Maybe click-wasteland? It's just really frustrating to navigate. It looks pretty, but it takes 4-5 submenus to get to get anywhere.

Let say I wanted to get a 29mm Aerotech motor. I click Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 120. And I'm taken to the product page. All I get are thumbnails of the graph. No information on Hazmat. No information on the motor (Ns, Duration, Type). No actual cost, just the MSRP (which is great if that's the selling price). But - Oh, hey, I want to see what you have for the 180NS case. Can I hit back and then select 180? Nope. I have to now click on Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 180. And heaven forbid I should want to buy something from the Hobbyline. That's where I found out that you can't get a list view - but I can click back and forth through multiple pages of thrust thumbnails. NBD - I'll just sort by Ns. Oh, no, that's not a sort option. I can sort alphabetically, which is fun for motors with, say, 5, 8, and 11 second delays - since they sort as 11, 5, and 8. Maybe I just want to pick up some non-Hazat motors, I'll just check the "non-Hazmat" box...oh, right, that doesn't exist. You know, I really only wanted to pick up some single use motors. Of course, they're on two separate pages since DMS and HL Single are two different categories. Bonus points: the engines sold as 2-packs aren't listed as such unless you click through. And every click through takes mulitple seconds to render, I presume because the pages are created dynamically.

Now I'm sure a lot of work went into filling the site with product, and I love some of the stuff you sell (and I'm addicted to your BW/BS sales), but I'm serious when I say it's got to be one of the most frustrating shopping experiences even when it's working as intended.
If you know what you want, there's the neat little feature called "search". The way it works is, you type in what you want, and BAM, like magic, it appears before your eyes and all ya gotta do is click on it. To access this wonderful website tool, all you have to do is click once on the "search" button. It's really a crazy cool invention. All the kids are doing it nowadays.

And from your description of your frustration, it sounds like you're a lot more frustrated with Aerotech's motor offerings than you are with Wildman's site... It really would be nice if Aerotech could slim down their offerings, or at least make them make sense.

And... Maybe it's just me, but generally... Feedback like this is usually welcome, just not in public. Seems like the decent thing to do would be to give Wildman a call and explain what you think would be a better system. "Praise in public, chastise in private"... Nice little proverb there. Just sayin.

#### CzTeacherMan

##### Well-Known Member
It's been a very slow couple of years for me in rocketry and I've been looking through my AT Hobbyline stash to see what I might need to get flying again.

Wildman was offering HL at 35% off at one point, but I just went to the site and (aside from it being cumbersome to navigate) everything looks like it's MSRP now. Am I reading correctly? Everybody else looks to be toeing the MSRP line as well (give or take a dollar or two).
Wildman is always just a phone call away... Jackie is pleasant to speak with, and she gets it done. Tim will always take care of it right then and there.
Pretty simple. It's not like calling Amazon or Comcast. Just a couple of folks working out of their home.

#### blackjack2564

##### Crazy Jim's Gone Banana's
Ya Know.....maybe some of you website guru's could call Tim & suggest some fixes....we all know it's not the same as the old one.

But it seems so many things that used to be "just a click away" take some serious "navigating' to get there.
Many of my favorite site/catalog/buyin stuff seem to be getting more complex, rather than easier.

Such is progress I guess. It won't be long.. will it.......Skynet.

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#### WILDMANRS

TRF Supporter
Maybe click-wasteland? It's just really frustrating to navigate. It looks pretty, but it takes 4-5 submenus to get to get anywhere.

Let say I wanted to get a 29mm Aerotech motor. I click Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 120. And I'm taken to the product page. All I get are thumbnails of the graph. No information on Hazmat. No information on the motor (Ns, Duration, Type). No actual cost, just the MSRP (which is great if that's the selling price). But - Oh, hey, I want to see what you have for the 180NS case. Can I hit back and then select 180? Nope. I have to now click on Menu. Then Motors. Then Aerotech. Then 180. And heaven forbid I should want to buy something from the Hobbyline. That's where I found out that you can't get a list view - but I can click back and forth through multiple pages of thrust thumbnails. NBD - I'll just sort by Ns. Oh, no, that's not a sort option. I can sort alphabetically, which is fun for motors with, say, 5, 8, and 11 second delays - since they sort as 11, 5, and 8. Maybe I just want to pick up some non-Hazat motors, I'll just check the "non-Hazmat" box...oh, right, that doesn't exist. You know, I really only wanted to pick up some single use motors. Of course, they're on two separate pages since DMS and HL Single are two different categories. Bonus points: the engines sold as 2-packs aren't listed as such unless you click through. And every click through takes mulitple seconds to render, I presume because the pages are created dynamically.

Now I'm sure a lot of work went into filling the site with product, and I love some of the stuff you sell (and I'm addicted to your BW/BS sales), but I'm serious when I say it's got to be one of the most frustrating shopping experiences even when it's working as intended.
I am sorry you a frustrated buying things from us at 30+% off
But I just solved you shopping problems and refunded all of your money .

#### WILDMANRS

TRF Supporter
I can take constructive criticism but this was way over the line

#### Normzilla

##### Well-Known Member
I am sorry you a frustrated buying things from us at 30+% off
But I just solved you shopping problems and refunded all of your money .
Well done.

#### WILDMANRS

TRF Supporter
Fantastic vendor, but have to agree about navigating the website. I'm not the only one around here saying that either. Old website was better IMO, and others opinions.
Thank you for the input .

I loved the way the old site navigated as much as all of you ,the navigation on the old site was done to my direction.
With that said the old site wouldn’t work worth a crap on a mobile device which is what most people are using now.
We are constantly working on the site putting content and pictures in far more than before .
We now have a shipping that actually works with parcel post and hazmat .
We will continue to upgrade the site as much as we can as we are able.

#### JordanT

##### Well-Known Member
Ya Know.....maybe some of you website guru's could call Tim & suggest some fixes....we all know it's not the same as the old one.

But it seems so many things that used to be "just a click away" take some serious "navigating' to get there.
Many of my favorite site/catalog/buyin stuff seem to be getting more complex, rather than easier.

Such is progress I guess. It won't be long.. will it.......Skynet.

I guess that's the difference... Sometimes it's nice to browse. I saw Tim has refunded my order. Disappointed a bit as it took over hour to make, but I understand his frustration with me. Website creation is hard - I'm struggling with a nonprofit site (I'm just accounting, not IT, so I get the difficulty of not being the coder). I know that calling isn't always an option on black Saturday because we're all exited to expand our build pile. I called three times before work so I made a web order and put extra info in the notes for things 8 could find on the site. I trust Tim and Jackie to fix everything post-sake, because they've always followed up.

For those thinking this is Thanksgiving sale related, it's not. The thread started because it has been 1-2 years since I've bought motors and browsing the usual sites and most discounts were gone. Tim used to have a blanket statement on the hobby stuff. That was it.

Tim - Sorry if you took my statements as mean spirited. They werent intended as such. I even said specifically that I love some of your rockets and - like so many - love the fall sale. I just found it frustrating and wanted to give specifics. You replied in the thread so I did; I'd have been just as happy to have an offline conversation.

#### DeltaVee

##### HV Arcas, AT F67
Thank you for the input .

I loved the way the old site navigated as much as all of you ,the navigation on the old site was done to my direction.
With that said the old site wouldn’t work worth a crap on a mobile device which is what most people are using now.
We are constantly working on the site putting content and pictures in far more than before .
We now have a shipping that actually works with parcel post and hazmat .
We will continue to upgrade the site as much as we can as we are able.
The newer website, oddly enough, is actually more difficult to use on my tablet than the old one but NOT impossible! I just have to do it in a certain way such as using the navigation tree at the bottom of the home page because the hamburger at the top won't open the menu. But that points up a key problem in handling this sort of thing. There are at least THREE different browsers to contend with, and a virtual galaxy of devices that are almost, but not quite, totally unlike each other in how they seem to handle web pages. Chrome for example will still do odd things. I have to edit my profile page for this forum using firefox because chrome flatly refuses to upload the avatar graphic!

As a colleague once said to me: I love standards, there are so many to choose from!

#### DeltaVee

##### HV Arcas, AT F67
BTW, I only included the graphic to illustrate what a "hamburger" is for the uninitiated, nothing else is implied about the chosen subject! At least on MY tablet... all websites pose the issue I described. Doing web sites that work in all cases is often a lot harder than you'd think!