Do fireworks starters work in hobby rocket motors?

[LW Bercini]

If so, can they be used for both black powder and AP?

Thanks

 

[Cl(VII)]

If so, can they be used for both black powder and AP?

Thanks

If you mean the orange wires with red chip end ematches, then yes they do. I turned to them for clusters when my supply of Q2G2s ran out. I tape them to the motor as they do not fit up inside. They make up for that deficiency by producing a lot more fire than the traditional bp motor igniters.

I have also heard tell of them lighting small AP motors, but I believe you have to be careful about nozzle size as the chip at the ematch end does not get consumed, and could block the nozzle.

 

[BDB]

Yep. I used the orange e-matches to light three Estes E and F motors last month. They work great.

 

[rharshberger]

Yep. I used the orange e-matches to light three Estes E and F motors last month. They work great.

AP or BP motors?

 

[Bat-mite]

They work with many CTI HPR motors, due to the Pyrodex pellet at the top of the grains. I do not believe they will light raw APCP. Black powder = yes.

 

[soopirV]

I have also heard tell of them lighting small AP motors, but I believe you have to be careful about nozzle size as the chip at the ematch end does not get consumed, and could block the nozzle.

This would be my main concern as well- would cause a CATO for sure. The chips are also rectangular, so just because it clears the throat when you insert it may mean it lodges at an angle upon ignition. I haven't yet compared them side by side with a CTI starter though, so will take a look tonight.

 

[Swissyhawk]

Could someone post a link or picture of these orange ematches? I'm curious as to what they are. Thanks.

 

[Bat-mite]

No longer available on Amazon.

 

[Salvage 1]

They work with many CTI HPR motors, due to the Pyrodex pellet at the top of the grains. I do not believe they will light raw APCP. Black powder = yes.

I have used them successfully to light CTi, Aerotech, Kosdon, Loki, and research motors up to a 75-7600 load. for the larger ones, ie. 75mm, I have twisted two ignitors together.

BP yes to the larger F ones, don't know about the others, but, yes, they should work fine.

Still available on Ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30PCS-100C...247502&hash=item3f7bf3fd9b:g:s7gAAOSwY3BZEB4R

 

[blackjack2564]

If so, can they be used for both black powder and AP?

Thanks

Yes LW..... I use them on E'D's will fit into nozzle. On C's fit entrance, the match throw fire/sparks enough to go up nozzle. Use them on A's & B's also requires good placement & tape. I'm sure they will light the new F's, just haven't done it yet. I'll give some to Gary to hand off to you to try & see if ya like.







They can light some AP [Blue Thunder] plain as they come, but require the addition of a "dip" such as Nitrocellulose/BP mixture to light most AP motors. They sure make BP motor ignition a snap, I use the ones with 12 inch leads super great for clusters.

I have used them successfully to light CTi, Aerotech, Kosdon, Loki, and research motors up to a 75-7600 load. for the larger ones, ie. 75mm, I have twisted two ignitors together.

Using them bare ...or adding some dipped pyrogen?

 

[dshmel]

Still available on Ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/30PCS-100C...247502&hash=item3f7bf3fd9b:g:s7gAAOSwY3BZEB4R

I buy from eBay as well.

 

[Gary Byrum]

Yes LW..... I use them on E'D's will fit into nozzle. On C's fit entrance, the match throw fire/sparks enough to go up nozzle. Use them on A's & B's also requires good placement & tape. I'm sure they will light the new F's, just haven't done it yet. I'll give some to Gary to hand off to you to try & see if ya like.

You can do that front and personal Jim. He'll be there this time.

 

[dshmel]

They can light some AP [Blue Thunder] plain as they come, but require the addition of a "dip" such as Nitrocellulose/BP mixture to light most AP motors. They sure make BP motor ignition a snap, I use the ones with 12 inch leads super great for clusters.

I have tried dipping them as well. Mine had a tendency to "pop" right before the pyrogen ignites. Now i just assemble reloads with a pyrodex pellet in the top grain and use the e-match to start the pellet. This has failed only once for me (on a very old H268 redline). I find the redline to be the most stubborn to light when the grains are oxidized.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

If so, can they be used for both black powder and AP?

Thanks

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs...ves-laws-and-regulations-atf-p-54007/download

see page 103, under letter i. These require an ATF explosives license.

 

[BDB]

AP or BP motors?

The large 29 mm BP motors. I just jammed the match head into the nozzle. We had some battery issues at the MPR pad at our launch last month so regular igniters and even the Estes sonic igniters weren't working. The e-matches lit flawlessly.

 

[rharshberger]

The large 29 mm BP motors. I just jammed the match head into the nozzle. We had some battery issues at the MPR pad at our launch last month so regular igniters and even the Estes sonic igniters weren't working. The e-matches lit flawlessly.

Thanks, I thought so. The AP motors are a bit harder to light but propellants easy to light like Blue Thunder have been lit with ematches on occasion.

 

[Salvage 1]

Using them bare ...or adding some dipped pyrogen?

As is straight from the box marked "wires"
I have attached a small sliver of propellant with CA once, but not found the need to since.

They will even start a campfire for you.
Gather a load of dry wood, clear a space of flammable object and create a fire ring.
Stack kindling at the bottom, with some dried moss. Stack the dried wood on top.
Insert the Chinese firework starter in a K grain and place in the moss.
Initiate with 9V battery.

 

[cwbullet]

Be careful, there are brands of e-matches for fireworks that do not contain pyrogen. They often will not fit in a rocket motor. Soem are sold under the name i-match, falcon ignitors, and Talon igniters.

https://www.firingsystems.us/Electrical-Igniters-s/52.htm
https://pyroworks.us/electric-igniters/talon-electric-igniters.html

Often, they have bare resistance wire to light a fuse in fireworks.

 

[Bat-mite]

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs...ves-laws-and-regulations-atf-p-54007/download

see page 103, under letter i. These require an ATF explosives license.

So does black powder. He didn't ask if it was legal. :wink:

 

[Dale]

I have never seen those.I was thinking of the fuses found on bottle rockets and fire crackers,lol.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

So does black powder. He didn't ask if it was legal. :wink:

Most people don't know that they aren't legal as the sellers often say they are legal... then ship them illegally as well.

 

[Cabernut]

How about MJG Firewire, they look similar just different color... Are they the same?

 

[rharshberger]

How about MJG Firewire, they look similar just different color... Are they the same?

Both are e-matches, Firewires are legal without a LEUP.

 

[Bat-mite]

As for the legality, BATFE would need probable cause to get a warrant to search your garage. Use them appropriately in rockets at the range and you will never hear from them.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

As for the legality, BATFE would need probable cause to get a warrant to search your garage. Use them appropriately in rockets at the range and you will never hear from them.

I think if they catch them in customs, they'll have cause...is it worth testing? They have shown up at launches before as well.

 

[LW Bercini]

Yes LW..... I use them on E'D's will fit into nozzle. On C's fit entrance, the match throw fire/sparks enough to go up nozzle. Use them on A's & B's also requires good placement & tape. I'm sure they will light the new F's, just haven't done it yet.

Jim,

Thank you very much for your advice and generosity. I used both the ones from you and the ones I had picked up earlier, to successfully ignite Estes D, E and F motors this past weekend at Camden

 

[CORZERO]

https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs...ves-laws-and-regulations-atf-p-54007/download

see page 103, under letter i. These require an ATF explosives license.

So does this stuff, according to page 102, "A" of your document:

"ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (APCP))."

The igniter argument gets more ridiculous every time it is resurrected. I wouldn't be surprised if some TRF member united front intervention via multiple complaints were responsible for the sudden absence of igniters on Amazon.

As said, they are available on Ebay. Buy em up before some Johnny Law TRF'er front has them removed from there as well.

The average citizen commits 3 felonies a day without knowledge of the crimes. You can't walk down a sidewalk without breaking the law. You're as likely to get busted using these igniters as you are any of the other felonies you didn't know you commited every day. Ffs, no one cares. Not even the ATF.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

So does this stuff, according to page 102, "A" of your document:

"ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (APCP))."

The igniter argument gets more ridiculous every time it is resurrected. I wouldn't be surprised if some TRF member united front intervention via multiple complaints were responsible for the sudden absence of igniters on Amazon.

As said, they are available on Ebay. Buy em up before some Johnny Law TRF'er front has them removed from there as well.

The average citizen commits 3 felonies a day without knowledge of the crimes. You can't walk down a sidewalk without breaking the law. You're as likely to get busted using these igniters as you are any of the other felonies you didn't know you commited every day. Ffs, no one cares. Not even the ATF.

View attachment 323789

It says excluding ammonium perchlorate composite propellant. Not that it matters. Amazon likely pulled them at the Atf request. You'd better believe they care...it's their job to. I've asked my agent about it in the past. I know other suppliers have also asked Atf about it. I deal with Atf on them, and they used to count mine, down to the exact number.

 

[CORZERO]

It says excluding ammonium perchlorate composite propellant. Not that it matters. Amazon likely pulled them at the Atf request. You'd better believe they care...it's their job to. I've asked my agent about it in the past. I know other suppliers have also asked Atf about it. I deal with Atf on them, and they used to count mine, down to the exact number.

Citation needed.

 

[tbonerocketeer]

Citation needed.

Read the book, same section you referred to. Watch for parentheses as not every line is on its on. I'm not replying about this with you anymore, as it's not a pissing contest. I'm not trying to start an argument, just point out the truth. Everyone here can choose to be legal with them or not. I don't care, just don't see why I would use them when FireWire are legal and available easily.