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Discouraged - Looking for CTI 29mm Reload UNDER L1

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TangoJuliet

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Okay, perhaps I jumped the gun a little bit by buying the Pro29 Starter Kit back in July for my then-under-construction NCR Laserhawk, but now I'm trying to find an on-line retailer for CTI 29mm re-load kits that doesn't require a Level 1 certification :facepalm:, or just finding CTI re-loads in general seems to be hit or miss (I understand there was a setback for the manufacturer).

I wrongly assumed that Mid-Power would still be relatively easy to get motors for :eyeroll:. Should I just look for Estes or Aerotech SU 29mm motors?
 

MCriscione

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Last time I checked in with them (mid Sept.) AMW had a bunch of F-G range motors for the 29mm, mostly in the Blue Streak, White, White Thunder, and Classic flavors. They were out of most other types. Based on their on-line store, it looks like they have some 200+ motors available in the 1-3 grain size. Maybe try there? They'll all be HAZ shipping of course.

http://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?o...tuemart_category_id=4&Itemid=470&limitstart=0

Call them up direct and verify the stock numbers before you place your order. If you call and ask, you may also find that they have one or two of the other motor types hidden away somewhere for you.
 
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Bat-mite

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Last time I checked in with them (mid Sept.) AMW had a bunch of F-G range motors for the 29mm, mostly in the Blue Streak, White, White Thunder, and Classic flavors. They were out of most other types. Based on their on-line store, it looks like they have some 200+ motors available in the 1-3 grain size. Maybe try there? They'll all be HAZ shipping of course.

http://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?o...tuemart_category_id=4&Itemid=470&limitstart=0

Call them up direct and verify the stock numbers before you place your order. If you call and ask, you may also find that they have one or two of the other motor types hidden away somewhere for you.
Ditto. Web site says lots in stock. http://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=4
 

75Grandville

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Chris' Rocket Supplies has some in stock: https://www.csrocketry.com/rocket-motors/cesaroni/29-2g.html, and he's probably the closest dealer (physically). Wildman has some in stock as well http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=754&Sub=795&Sub1=796

Other thought - find out where your local clubs are, who their onsite vendors are, and what they carry. You might be able to pick something up at a launch.

You can certainly use Estes SU and Aerotech SU motors - Some of the AT F-impulse ship non-hazmat. And price-wise, there's not much added expense for the AT SU motors. See the guys above, or one of several other vendors. Or try hobbylinc.com for Estes BP F motors.
 
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TangoJuliet

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Specifically I was looking for F50, G74, G40, or G80.

The nearest "Club" launches are more than a few hours away, and unfortunately, fall on my weekends to work.

I wasn't aware of AMW, thanks. I'll also look at Wildman.
 

samb

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Specifically I was looking for F50, G74, G40, or G80.
...
Ok, so... the title of this thread says "Looking for CTI 29mm Reload UNDER L1" but here your are listing Aerotech motors. See GregGleason's attached list in post #4 for the Cesaroni motor designations. You'll want to be clear when talking to vendors. :blush:
 

TangoJuliet

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Ok, so... the title of this thread says "Looking for CTI 29mm Reload UNDER L1" but here your are listing Aerotech motors.
:surprised: I didn't know. I was just going by the recommended engines listed on the face-card. It makes no indication that they are specific brands. I had already purchased the CTI Pro29 Starter Kit (3 Grain Case). Maybe that was money wasted. HPR doesn't really seem worth the added effort to me. Flying sites and organized launches don't often play well with my work schedule, and are often several hours away.
 

samb

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:surprised: I didn't know. I was just going by the recommended engines listed on the face-card. It makes no indication that they are specific brands. I had already purchased the CTI Pro29 Starter Kit (3 Grain Case). Maybe that was money wasted. HPR doesn't really seem worth the added effort to me. Flying sites and organized launches don't often play well with my work schedule, and are often several hours away.
Sorry, I didn't mean to add more heartburn to the process. There are alot more choices as you move up the impulse chain. Given a little time and exposure you'll have it all down cold. The Apogee site has a pretty comprehensive list of motors for this rocket, Aerotech and CTI, and they are known for their customer service. I think alot of us here got our first exposure and hand-on training with composite motors at club launches so we always try to steer folks that way when possible. My entry to that world was with single use motors, for what that's worth.
 
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bclark989

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So, I don't have the motor lists memorized like some of the vets, but here is CTI's page for 29mm reloads that they manufacture. The retailers being discussed will carry some, or all, of them, but that list is good for zeroing in on what hardware will best suit your needs.

As for the 29mm 3 grain, it is sort of the Level 1 starter :/ There are only two reloads that aren't considered HPR: the G54 Red Lightning and the G33 Mellow Yellow. If you got some spacers and could fly 1 and 2 grain reloads, that would open up a lot more options. That said, the G54 is one of my favorite big MPR motors.

If you aren't flying a ton, it may indeed be worth looking at some AT single use motors, at least for now. MPR isn't hard to fins motors for, you just ended up with a case that lends itself toward bridging the MPR to HPR gap, rather than just a bunch of MPR options.

Also (and take this with a grain of salt as it probably came through an extensive grapevine), it sounds like one of CTI's priorities as they get back into production on commercial reloads is TARC, which means small stuff =)

That case is worth it. MPR and HPR are worth the trouble. Don't get discouraged. Have fun motor shopping=)
 

75Grandville

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So, Apogee has a complete list of all the motors that they recommend for this kit here: https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...h=1_85&zenid=36b9c363b87ffaee5ee146177616bc65

There is one motor in the "sweet spot" of single use AND no hazmat shipping - the F42-4T. Apogee has them for $45.99 for 2, Hobbylink has them for $29.99 for 2 ( http://www.hobbylinc.com/aerotech-f...otors-2-f-composite-model-rocket-engine-64204), and Csrocketry.com has them for $34 https://www.csrocketry.com/rocket-m.../mid-power/single-use/29mm/f42-4t-2-pack.html

For midpower, I have found the AT 29/40-120 to be my go-to. Lots of reloads available, and all of the G reloads are USPS (non-hazmat) shipable. I do order motors that require hazmat shipping on occasion, but I usually make those big (several hundred $ seems big to me) to spread the hazmat pain across multiple loads. Or buy from someone that throws in free hazmat if you spend enough. So, when I'm shopping for motors, I am always considering hazmat as part of the equation.
 
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Cabernut

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I have found that Aerotech E15,E20,E30, F32, G74 all single use, have the best bang-for-the-buck for MPR. As in possibly cheaper than a reload if you factor in the newtons/$.

There's also the 3-grain G80-SK which, if allowed by your local club, should be exciting.
 

bill_s

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Depending in where you have to fly, that case may be overkill since the larger reloads increase the chance of losing the rocket and the case, which would be reduced by using single use motors. You might even want to try some of the non-Haz Aerotech SU F motors for first flight. But when you do order Hazmat, you might grab a couple Aerotech Hazmat motors to fill holes in your purchase. The CTI casing allows up to a full G but the Aerotech G80 is very close.

There are some advantages of going HPR L1: Sparky motors and high thrust motors, not just more power. Going to a launch and seeing others spend thousands of dollars on big flights.
 

TangoJuliet

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Thanks y'all for the feedback.

I have the spacers for my 3-grain casing to allow use of single grains. I haven't flown anything for a few decades, and that was all LPR stuff. I got pretty good at knowing which motors worked best in a particular rocket for particular weather conditions/flight performance - I also used to compete in NAR events as a teen. But this Laserhawk is the biggest rocket I've built to date, and the heaviest also. Having never flown anything this big, I want to be sure I have enough oomph for at least 600' of altitude and a short enough delay to not risk pranging it. I may not fly it much, but I'm hoping to make an impression on younger onlookers when I do. I'm also completing a Mega Der Red Max that can/could use the same motors, so the idea of making a large purchase to spread out the HAZMAT fees is appealing.
 

Bat-mite

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How much does the Laserhawk weigh (minus the motor) in flight-ready condition? We can help you find the right motor.
 

DavidMcCann

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Just to be "that guy" for the cost of a couple hazmat orders, (or in trade for a CTI starter kit) you could likely land an aerotech 29 40-120.... reloads are all E, F and G, and most ships without hazmat (not the F52 or G138)...and are quite a bit less expensive that CTI to begin with. There are also very good rumors coming out of AT about a few new loads coming for the case.

29/40-120 case-
E16W, E23T, F22J, F40W, F52T, G53FJ, G64W, G76G, and G138T (W is White, J and FJ are smokey, G for Green, T is Blue. Be aware the smaller AT blues aren't very blue. The G138T is very blue, also it and the F loads require hazmat, the others do not) Reloads in the case can be had CHEAP from hobbylinc and most other vendors. G76G's go for $10-11.
 

TangoJuliet

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I haven't weighed it, and I'm at work now until next Thursday, so...

One of the things that made CTI attractive to me was the simplicity of assembling the reloads, but the Aerotech idea is starting to become a little more attractive to me :sad:.
 

DavidMcCann

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One of the things that made CTI attractive to me was the simplicity of assembling the reloads, but the Aerotech idea is starting to become a little more attractive to me :sad:.
Honestly, once you build a couple, it takes a couple minutes to build any of the AT loads.
 

bclark989

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I also started with CTI because of the reload simplicity. Can confirm: it's awesome. I have a 29/40-120 and a 38/600 for AT reloads now, so I have gotten better at them, but its still a bunch of pieces you have to try not to lose, and you have to grease everything, and my liners are always too big on the 40-120, so you have to peel a layer of paper off, etc. etc. And its best to do it all at home before you go so you don't lose stuff or drop it and get it dirty or whatever. CTI motors can be prepped at the field in about 10 seconds, 30 seconds if you need to adjust the delay.

I would say get a 29/40-120 casing (they show up in the Yard Sale forum a lot) to add some options for motors and to familiarize yourself with loading AT reloads, but hang on to the CTI casing.
 

Bat-mite

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I also started with CTI because of the reload simplicity. Can confirm: it's awesome. I have a 29/40-120 and a 38/600 for AT reloads now, so I have gotten better at them, but its still a bunch of pieces you have to try not to lose, and you have to grease everything, and my liners are always too big on the 40-120, so you have to peel a layer of paper off, etc. etc. And its best to do it all at home before you go so you don't lose stuff or drop it and get it dirty or whatever. CTI motors can be prepped at the field in about 10 seconds, 30 seconds if you need to adjust the delay.

I would say get a 29/40-120 casing (they show up in the Yard Sale forum a lot) to add some options for motors and to familiarize yourself with loading AT reloads, but hang on to the CTI casing.
I agree with you completely. But I have a CTI vendor on site at launches, so I don't have to pay HAZMAT. That is a HUGE factor in my motor choosing. :wink:
 

Exactimator

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These have been posted before elsewhere on TRF but here are a couple assembly videos, one for AT and one for CTI. This may help you decide which one best fits you.

[video=youtube;g0GsbQS7GKI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0GsbQS7GKI[/video]

[video=youtube;NFdfgcPP2pQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdfgcPP2pQ[/video]

CTI skips the step of drilling the delay, but you get the idea.
 
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grouch

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Tango, there is no such thing as wasted money in rocketry. If you put that 3 grain case in the for sale section it will be sold before the end of the day. That said, I would not do it. That was the first case I bought, I would not get rid of it due to the flexibility and number of motors I can fly. I have since sold off all of my other CTI cases in favor or AT because I can get the motors I fly without hazmat. Plus I like building the motors. I will never knock the ease of assembly that CTI brings, they make good stuff and I flew them for years (and still do in 29mm) and can totally understand the draw but truth be told, you will wind up with cases from both manufacturers. Lastly, to second Dave, the 29-120 case is a beginners wet dream for all the motors you can fly and the performance you'll get from them.
 
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Buckeye

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Agreed, stick around long enough, and you will collect cases from both. It's good to have options. When Aerotech burned down in 2001 and supply was scarce, I started using CTI. Now CTI is scarce, so Aerotech it is. I like CTI for launch-day purchases and easy loading. If I have time to prep before the launch, I will build Aerotech motors in the comfort of home.
 

KurtH

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Another strategy with Mid power, one I used alot when I started ... is the Aerotech 24/40 case. You can use an adapter on your 29 mm rockets and fly the
F-24 and F-39 loads, and you get 3 reloads in a pack. or if you have any 24 mm estes rockets, you can send them on a wild ride with e-18 and e-28.
 

Buckeye

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Another strategy with Mid power, one I used alot when I started ... is the Aerotech 24/40 case. You can use an adapter on your 29 mm rockets and fly the
F-24 and F-39 loads, and you get 3 reloads in a pack. or if you have any 24 mm estes rockets, you can send them on a wild ride with e-18 and e-28.
Agreed, these 24mm jobbies are very versatile and pack a good punch for LPR to MPR. I probably have more flights on this case than all my others combined. Back in the day, the 3-packs were also a great buy.
 
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