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Ding Ding , Round TWO !

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PWALPOCO

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After the relative success of the Bullpups maiden flight and the lessons I learnt along the tortuous path to building it Ive now moved on to my next project.

Ive been absolutely dying to get on and start building my next kit and now heres a photo or two of how its going.

It is of course , an Estes Phoenix which I immediately fell in love with the moment I saw a photo of it. Even now , I want to have a bigger version of this brute but I know theres the responsibility of the motors required to fly it. At least this version will go on Estes D's which I can lay my hands on.

Ah well , onto the piccies .....

Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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Last one for now ,

this view is looking back up the mount to the nosecone.

Governments of the free world , send me £50 or I shall unleash my weapon of mass destruction !! Bwahhahahhahah ummm well , after the fins are on of course , oh and once theres a good paint job. But other than that , send me the money or else !

Paul
 

Mike

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Good use for one of those Science Clamps.

If you did want to upscale the Phoenix you could always try clustering D motors, might mean you need new launch equipment though. I'm hoping to build a 3" Amraam later this year which should fly with a D12 cluster but I want a bit more clustering experience first.

Phoenix looking good, keep us posted!
 

PWALPOCO

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Yes I had the idea for the stands at work, Im a lab techie and the solution to some of my Fin alignment problems just leapt out at me.

Im hoping the Retort stands and clamps will assist me in the process of setting the fins in position and then in the filleting stage. You could dry fit the fin and BT first , then carefully move the two away , prep up the glue then move them back , and hopefully (for this is the plan) the fin will be in good alignment when the glue sets. Might need a spirit level but it should work.

Paul
 

Micromeister

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Paul:
jsut a word to the wise!!! take your time, be very sure your fins and strakes are as perfectly aligned as you can. Pay close attention to Grain direction on the fins. If you have the option I'd replace the Balsa fins with Basswood or even Light ply. Phoenix has a tendency to weather cock badly with light winds and only slightly misaligned fins.
But the thing really sound great with the recessed D12, Hope you have fun building and flying a great model.
 

PWALPOCO

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Yes , fin alignment has been a BIG concern of mine once I saw how tricky it was with the Bullpup.

The reason Ive not already started on the build beforehand is that I wanted to wait till those stands showed up. I fully intend on taking as long as it takes in order to make sure the fins are perfect before commiting to glue !

In fact I do have the idea in mind to advance this Phoenix just up to the point of setting the fins in place then going on to another guineapig bullpup to practice the "use retort stands to do the fins" technique. There are 8 fins to practice on , and hopefully by the end of that Ill have the skill to finish the Pheonix off.

I apreciate the tip on Basswood or light plywood , thats interesting. For the uninitiated can you elaborate on the significance of the balsa grain ?


You dont have a WAV of that Phoenix taking off by any chance :)

Paul
 

sandman

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For the uninitiated can you elaborate on the significance of the balsa grain ?
The "trick" is to make sure the grain of the wood is parallel to the leading edge of the fin. You want the "root" edge (the edge glued to the body) to be all end grain. This minimises the fin breaking parallel to the grain.

That is a bit hard on the Pheonix strakes.

The hardest part on those fins is sanding the diamond shape to the airfoil.

sandman
 

xxxREKxxx

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Nice Choice! Paul
I saw my first up close and personal Pheonix at the CMASS launch last Nov. and said "I gotta get me some of that!" I finished up a couple of weeks ago. It hasn't flown yet, I'm waiting for the thaw. There is just too much fin too come down on ice or frozen ground. (Who knows, it's supposed to snow tonight, maybe tomorrow). It really is a great looking bird and it was worth it to take my time. There's no real need to post a pic, it looks just like every other phoenix out there, except for the crooked decals:eek:
Bob
 

Rob Fisher

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If I were you I would launch it on estes E engines. I had a phoenix back in the 80's and it definitely could of used a little mo' power than the d's. It's quite a large bird if I recall.
 

PWALPOCO

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Oh go on , would like to see another Piccie. Has anyone got a vid of one of these going up by the way ?

As for E motors , my understanding is that in the UK the E isnt totally legit. I get mixed messages about what the deal is with these but I think its becuase theyve not been "approved" by the authorities in Europe or the UK.

BTW , whats "different" about a E Launch Controller as opposed to the regular one. Is it just the cable length ?

Paul
 

Zippy

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If you can get ahold of E's they are definatly a lot of fun but make sure you check the rockets stabillity with them. They're longer and heavier so they move the CG back making some rockets go unstable. E's lite just like any black powder motor so no special controller is needed. Not as much takeoff power as a D12 but a longer burn.
 

Mike

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They are definatley illegal in the UK.
 

PWALPOCO

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Didnt think the E's were approved. Thanks Mike.

Oh well , the Phoenix will have to stay with Estes D's for now and maybe look into other motor types later. At the moment my skill level isnt that great so most things Im going to build are going to be more or less to spec.

When Ive been doing that ok , then maybe look at getting all the legal paperwork and other motor types , AT for example and figure out to do the mods to the kit.

Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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After a few hours messing about Ive not been able to setup a way to mount the Phoenix fins. I can get part of the alignment right but theres always something wrong. Glad I played about dry fitting before even looking for glue.

I was hoping to use my handy lab retort stands to help me and up to a point they are ok but not good enough for the job of mounting the fins which is a pity.

Ah well , shall see what tommorow brings .......

Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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After consultation with my aerospace engineer Woody Ive used his suggestion for getting the fins on. The 4 main fins are mounted and Ill try and use those as a guide to align the four tail fins later on.

On with the pics ......
 
A

Austin

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Paul,

That Phoenix is one great bird...one of my favorites! I also wanted to say I really like the stand you are using...very cool.

Carl
 

PWALPOCO

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One of the worst bits is now over !!

Fin job complete !

On with the pics ...


Paul
 

PWALPOCO

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One more fin pic before I mess up the job with my painting !!

Paul
 

n3tjm

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Originally posted by PWALPOCO
Has anyone got a vid of one of these going up by the way ?

BTW , whats "different" about a E Launch Controller as opposed to the regular one. Is it just the cable length ?
The only difference is the cable length, but I recommend getting a 12vt launch system over ussing the Estes controller which is only good for a half dozzen or so launches with 4 AA batteries.

As far as videos go, here are a few Estes Phoenix videos from my website:

http://n3tjm.crosswinds.net/Oct202001/Phoenix.mpg
http://n3tjm.crosswinds.net/Nov32001/46_Sofias_D12_Phoenix.mpg
http://n3tjm.crosswinds.net/July272002/07_F21_Phoenix.mpg
http://n3tjm.crosswinds.net/Sept142002/05_Sofias_D12-3_Phoenix.mpg
 

PWALPOCO

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Funnily enough I was just looking for vids about half an hour ago with no joy ...... thank you :)

Paul
 

Neil

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Hey hey, the Estes controller is pretty good once you think about it. I have gotten over 150 launches off mine, though I had to change the batteries about #100.

I have been debating with myself for a long time now on wether or not to get one of those Estes Phoenixes... We wants one, precious, so we can install a 29MM motor mount in it... Yes precious... That would be a good thing to lightly glass and upsize the motor mount, precious....;)

did you like it?

P.S. Try the E9s if they are on the Estes reccomended motor list. If not, try an Aerotech E15. Thos are cool. They really are not that much harder than a D12. Just a different propellant type and ignitor. It doesent really get that hard untill you get into Hs and Is. Sure, with Fs and Gs you have to pay a lot more attention to stablity ETC, (not saying you dont have too with Ds, but its just more important with bigger ones) but it really isnt THAT hard. Getting the motors in the UK would be difficult, though.... I made the "mid power leap" last spring, and the "high power leap" last fall. Now I gotta get into the "mile high club"....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Good luck!
 

PWALPOCO

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Well , this is only the second thing Ive tried building so Im not going to muck about trying something like uprating the motor or anything just yet.

In the UK the E motors arent strictly legit so Im led to beleive , so I may have trouble sourcing such motors. I would consider AT type motors or similar but theres the forms to fill in first.

I think Ill stick to the simple stuff for now try not to let my aspirations out strip my skill to deliver. The group Im with are slowly stretching their abilities and over time we may get into bigger and better things... as for now I have my hands full as it is !

Paul
 

Neil

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Legit? Do you mean "legal"? Jeez... I was thinkin about moving to the UK sometime (after im 18, of course), but if you have to fill out paperwork for Es, forget it:rolleyes: Maybe new zealand... Not much paperwork at all, and its purty over there.:cool: Plus LOTR was filmed there....
 

wwattles

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I know you've already got your fins on, but for anyone else who's looking to build an Estes Phoenix, here's my 2 cents:

I've been playing a lot with the build on my Phoenix (and currently a re-build), and something I used to great success in aligning the fins was to put on one set and make sure they were perfect (I use Lego's for an alignment guide - gotta love versatility). Then I taped a pair of dowels to each side of one fin, and used those to create a "fence" for the new fin to line up on.
Unfortunately, I didn't take any pics while I was doing it, but it worked very well.

As far as the noseweight for a larger motor is concerned, just throw some more clay into the nose. I've put up mine on a cluster of 4 E's with a LOT of noseweight, and it flew just fine.

And Neil, NZ is great, if you can stand a sheep-to-human ratio of 33 to 1. (Watch your step when looking for rockets!) Other than that, it's a wonderful country!

WW
 

sandman

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Good Job!

I see you have the wood grain oriented correctly too!

The paint job is fairly easy...all white!

sandman
 

Neil

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33-1... holy cow (or should I say "holy sheep"???.;) )! Guess theres an alternative to beef for those people who are freaking out about mad cow... I would have to watch my step!

You know what would be super-cool? launching of Edoras! You LOTR (TTT and ROTK) fans know what I mean! Look in the extended edition of TTT and you will see some video of Edoras and its filming. Itll blow you away. Its so durn purty over there....

Back to the subject....


LEGOS????? Hmmm theres a thought... a pretty good one, actually... Ill have to look for some sometime. I bet theres tons of used sets all over the place at yard sales.:rolleyes:
 

PWALPOCO

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Sandman ,

Thanks but the praise belongs to Mr Fincutter dude at the Estes Factory ! All the grain was aligned in the way you helpful people pointed out. All I had to do was to release the fins from one another , tidy them up and stick them to the BT.

And dont make the paining sound too easy. Its not !! Not for me anyway Ive no painting talent at all !!

Just paint it white indeed ! LOL , if only !

Paul
 

WiK

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Neil,

its not that you have to fill out paperwork for estes E's, you cant import them into the UK, so paperwork or no paperwork we cant get them :(

Phil
 
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