D7-3 german motors?

[Justin]

Anyone ever heard of a D7-3 single use motor? I found it on a German web site with really cool scale stuff (someone on the forum posted them- Das Model). They call it a 25mm motor (I don't read german, so I,m guessing).

I was wondering if an American D (or C-11) could be used in place of one if I order one of these German kits..By the motor chart (I could read that, motor charts seem to be universal), I'm sure power won't be an issue. I wondering about fit. If it really is 25mm, that would work fine. A little tape maybe..

Any of you guys fly Euro-Birds and motors?

 

[Justin]

I just found a whole thread from jan. about these things. Questions answered..

 

[hokkyokusei]

I have some of these, but I haven't flown one yet. I regularly fly the more normally sized A/B/C motors from the same manufacturer.

 

[Justin]

I couldnt tell on the site, do some of them have wicks? I thought everyone used electric ignition...

 

[hokkyokusei]

Yeah, they come with wicks rather than normal igniters. I throw them away and use either estes or igniterman igniters.

They also do two other motors called the Held1000 & Held5000. I've never seen the 5000s but the 1000 is a funky 10mm dia long burn motor. It works out at something like a C1.5-0 Big spike at ignition then a very long very low level of thrust for about 5 seconds.

 

[WiK]

They also do two other motors called the Held1000 & Held5000. I've never seen the 5000s but the 1000 is a funky 10mm dia long burn motor. It works out at something like a C1.5-0 Big spike at ignition then a very long very low level of thrust for about 5 seconds.

How can I get one of these?

*drools*

Phil

 

[hokkyokusei]

https://www.opitec.de

Unfortunately I used all of mine up in "Package for Mr Lawes" at UKRA 2004, or I could have given you a some.

 

[WiK]

Given me a some?!?



Are these BP motors?

And whats the shipping like from Opitec? I cant seem to find any info about it on the site.

 

[Marxi]

Hi !

As a German I´ll try to answer some questions with my bad Englisch.. ;-)

Are these BP motors?

Yes, Held1000/H1k Motors are normal BP- Motors like Estes A-D Motors (of course without a core ;-)).
But remember: The 2 Held Motors (H1k, H5k) don´t have a delay.
After approx. 5 seconds of thrust the H1k will simply burn through on the "normally delay site".
When clustering these motors you might better plugge them with epoxy, because the little bit of gas, which gets in the tube after burning through can seperate the rocket.
This is of course not that good, because the seperation happens without a delay at a high velocity.
But in the H5k you can put and epoxy in an Estes 18mm Motor, which makes the delay and ejection charge.
Because I have a few H1ks in front of me, I can give you the exact measurements:
Lenght: 95mm
Diameter: 15mm (not 10!)
Burn time: around 5sec. (with a good peak at ~ 0,4 sec.)


The German D7-3 motors (the H5k also (!)) aren´t that loved at the moment, because there were very much Catos, because "Sachsen Feuerwerk"/SF buyed the paper Casings for the 25mm Motors in Sweden (for a cheaper price) which suck and can´t also take the pressure.

In the German kits it showed to be very good, to put in the 25mm MM and having a 24mm MM tube only as a adapter.
This will fit nicely in the 25mm tube and looks better than tape. (which also works)
But I don´t know, how it is to order them from the US.. hhmm.

It´s often better to put in D12-5 instead of D7 !
I flew my "Das Modell" Jumbo2 on 2*D7 and 2*D12, which brought the Jumbo to a bigger altitude than 4*D7.

Hope, I helped in this case.. if there are any questions, I´ll try to answer them.

Marx Hans

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by WiK
Given me a some?!?



Are these BP motors?

And whats the shipping like from Opitec? I cant seem to find any info about it on the site.

Generous to a fault, that's me Of course then you would be in my debt forever bwahahaha...

Yeah, they're BP motors. Shipping? I can't actually remember, so it probably wasn't offensively large.

 

[hokkyokusei]

Originally posted by Marxi

Diameter: 15mm (not 10!)

Oops! Yes, my mistake.


Ooooh, post 555!

 

[Justin]

Thanks guys-

Marxi- Have you ever flown any of the Das Model Scale (profi? in my non-existant German ) rockets like the Vostok or Ariane. They look cool, but they are expensive in US Dollars, and people say lots of them are pretty unstable..
-Justin

 

[Leo]

I made a picture of both side by side.

The D7-3 is shorter and is bigger in diameter.

Really stupid of them if you ask me as you can't use them in Estes kits. Guess they don't want my money

Pic:

 

[Marxi]

Hi !

Originally posted by Justin:

Marxi- Have you ever flown any of the Das Model Scale (profi? in my non-existant German ) rockets like the Vostok or Ariane. They look cool, but they are expensive in US Dollars, and <a href="https://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=people&v=54&src=zon">people</a> say lots of them are pretty unstable..

No, unfortunately I didn´t... I much more found my right place in MPR,HPR..
But I saw many Scale kits at Events. Some of them came out really nice, but at least I would say, that you won´t expect a Estes quality, when ordering the kits.
But the kits of "Das Modell/Noris" are just great for modifying and <a href="https://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=learning&v=54&src=zon">learning</a> things to get into MPR and the building technics, that are needed for higher impulses.
Perhaps Leo can give a statement to the scale kits!?

With the Sporty ones you can really have much fun !
At least, when a cluster is in the heck of the model and you´re using a open flashpan:

 

[Oli4]

Hi there,

you can not compare the quality of Noris - das Modell kits with Estes! I have flown two or three kits from Noris and I must say I will not fly any more of them. Parts are not fitting exactly to each other, fins are made of cardboard (only some kits, not all) and so on...

As a german dealer I am importing kits from USA, because of the weak quality of our german ones...

I stock Held 1000 if anybody is interested in...you can write me a mail with your full delivery address and I can give you a quote of the shipping costs... D7-3 and Held 5000 are not available on the whole german market due to some productions problems.

cheers,
Oli4

 

[adrian]

Originally posted by Justin
Marxi- Have you ever flown any of the Das Model Scale (profi? in my non-existant German ) rockets like the Vostok or Ariane. They look cool, but they are expensive in US Dollars, and people say lots of them are pretty unstable..
-Justin

I've seen the V-1 on a D12-5. It was unstable. With a bit of extra nose weight, it was nearly stable - it took off, went horizontal, then became stable as the CG shifted because the propellant wasn't there any more, and ended up in a tree.

My Ariane 5 did something similar, but that's because the fin mount tubes are the same as the motor mount tube, leading to an obvious modification. With three C6-3's, the CG moves back of course, so I stuffed enough clay in the nose to put the CG back where it was originally. It still went way off course. Well, the whole idea of putting motors in the booster pods was to make it more realistic, and it worked.

I wasn't impressed with the Ariane 5's body tube. It's heavier than Estes tubing and coarsely wound. It's the only model rocket on which I had to fill in the spiral groove - not being as fussy about finishing as some people, I never fill in the spiral on an Estes tube.

As for motors, the Held 1000 is ideal for use in a rocket glider, which is where I've seen it being used. Mind you, one person tried it on a glider which was really meant for use with the much smaller, less powerful Rapier motors. The glider did a loop and chased its owner across the field.

 

[Daedalus]

Held 1000 motors are great in chip cones, a nice spike to get them moving and then a loooooong burn to apogee - and no ejection or delay required

 

[Justin]

This thread is turnig up all kinds of stuff. I was just thinking about motor sizes for German scale kits originaly, but now I'm learning all sorts of stuff about the hobby in Europe. This forum rocks...

Are any of these German motors NAR certified? Like competition legal?

 

[Justin]

Daedalus-
What is a chip cone?

 

[Daedalus]

Originally posted by Justin
Daedalus-
What is a chip cone?

It's an expanded polystyrene cone that chips (fries) are sometimes put in in the U.K. - about 4" tall and 3" diameter.

To convert one into a rocket just make a hole in the top of the cone and epoxy a motor (say a C6-anything) in it far enough forward for the CG to be about half way up the cone. Glue a bit of drinking straw to the motor as a launch lug. 5 minutes work for a one-shot rocket - it uses featherweight recovery.

You can be posh and add a motor mount to make them re-usable (for at least a couple of flights) - then you can pull the mount out and glue it in a new cone.

They are a fairly popular rocket at my club - you can also get more serious and stage them or use them as cone fins on a 'real' rocket or anything else you can think of.

Here is a link to step by step instructions I just found -

www.palimpsest.co.uk/blastoff/ChipCups.htm

 

[Justin]

Daedalus-
That's great.. I wasn't thinking. I guess fish and chips ( fish strips and fries in US terms as you know) dosen't always come in a bit of the London Times..

I didn't know you guys had a disposible thingy for them like a paper cup. I would love to see one fly.. Do you have a picture?-
-Justin

 

[Justin]

Whoops..You did post pics..

 

[WiK]

What club do you fly with Daedalus?

Chip Cones are great fun, try it!


Phil

 

[Justin]

If we had chip cones in the US I would try it tomarrow! Well, today it's late/early here..6:52 am....

 

[Justin]

Do you UK guys know about spool rockets? They are pretty cool and easey too. Some one on the Forum has plans for one using old CD's. Let me look...

 

[cydermaster]

Heres a thread I started last year about 'Cheeky Chip Cones':
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4045

 

[Justin]

I can't post a pdf file here. Do a search on the forum for CD spool rockets, and you'll find it. I wish I could give it to you directly..

 

[Daedalus]

Originally posted by WiK
What club do you fly with Daedalus?

Phil

SERFS, and then I usually go to UKRA and K-LOB to fly some of the bigger stuff.

Looking to do my L2 within the next year, but that will have to be at one of the UKRA meetings as SERFS is BMFA affiliated rather than UKRA, so only up to G power.

 

[WiK]

Yup I think we know about Spool Rockets. Im trying to use up a 25cd spindle of blank discs so I can use the two protective see thru cd's for a spool rocket.

 

[adrian]

Has anyone tried a tube-launched spool rocket?

I've got this vision of a "rocket" sitting on the pad, the countdown reaches 1, the motor mount goes flying out, and the owner turns round and says "It's supposed to do that".