CTI price increase

[jmasterj]

Some time in the last 6 weeks CTI's prices went up around 20-35%. I checked 29mm, 38mm, and 75mm loads I ordered from Wildman on Black Saturday and they're all up in that range. Did I miss some announcement of this? I don't think I've seen any discussion here.

H123: $34.78 MSRP to $43.77 (26%)
H340: $47.20 MSRP to $60.33 (28%)
J580: $86.96 MSRP to $112.40 (29%)
J530: $94.99 MSRP to $127.78 (34.5%)
L910: $165.19 MSRP to $201.15 (22%)

Maybe we're all just used to prices going up big time and collectively shrugged our shoulders, though.

I'm holding on to my Wildman order even if it takes till next July to receive, partially because of these increases. I wish I'd bought more, actually!

Edit: I thought I put all the numbers in, but now they're not appearing. Not sure what happened there.

 

[Banzai88]

That would be a huge jump, especially in light of unaddressed long 38mm and 54mm motor problems and extended lead times and unholy year+ warranty process.

Are you sure you're comparing last November retail to today retail, or Wildman BF discount price to today retail? Wasn't 20-something % the Wildman discount? Add that to the member discount and that sounds about like the price differential.

But then again, didn't AT have a series of price increases last year that were about that much?

I'm sure someone will come along shortly and double check the numbers, followed shortly by the "prices are up for everyone, shut up and pay or go away" folks.

 

[jmasterj]

Positive. I cross checked CS Rocketry, he still has the old prices. So I guess I've only seen increased prices at Wildman, but I don't know where else to look for CTI. Presumably it's not just Wildman raising his margins, so the other dealers will go up soon too.

It sucks, but that's how it goes. I don't begrudge any of our motor manufacturers making enough to stock around to keep making motors. Just wanted to give people a heads-up.

 

[crossfire]

Some time in the last 6 weeks CTI's prices went up around 20-35%. I checked 29mm, 38mm, and 75mm loads I ordered from Wildman on Black Saturday and they're all up the same percentage. Did I miss some announcement of this? I don't think I've seen any discussion here.

H123: $34.78 MSRP (26%)
H340: $47.20 MSRP (28%)
J580: $86.96 MSRP to (29%)
J530: $94.99 MSRP to $127.78 (34.5%)
L910: $165.19 MSRP to $201.15 (22%)

Maybe we're all just used to prices going up big time and collectively shrugged our shoulders, though.

I'm holding on to my Wildman order even if it takes will next July to receive, partially because of these increases.

About the same Price as Aerotech. The L910 and L1000 are about the same price

 

[sharkbait]

Positive. I cross checked CS Rocketry, he still has the old prices. So I guess I've only seen increased prices at Wildman, but I don't know where else to look for CTI. Presumably it's not just Wildman raising his margins.

Kenny at Performance hobbies has the exact same prices you listed

 

[jmasterj]

Kenny at Performance hobbies has the exact same prices you listed

I actually noted that as well (not in writing), but he hasn't had stock in forever so I didn't want to put much weight on it.

 

[WILDMANRS]

Some time in the last 6 weeks CTI's prices went up around 20-35%. I checked 29mm, 38mm, and 75mm loads I ordered from Wildman on Black Saturday and they're all up the same percentage. Did I miss some announcement of this? I don't think I've seen any discussion here.

H123: $34.78 MSRP (26%)
H340: $47.20 MSRP (28%)
J580: $86.96 MSRP to (29%)
J530: $94.99 MSRP to $127.78 (34.5%)
L910: $165.19 MSRP to $201.15 (22%)

Maybe we're all just used to prices going up big time and collectively shrugged our shoulders, though.

I'm holding on to my Wildman order even if it takes will next July to receive, partially because of these increases.

CTI did the price increase at the start of this year

 

[jmasterj]

About the same Price as Aerotech. The L910 and L1000 are about the same price

The L1000 costs $100 more because it's a DMS long 54mm motor, I wouldn't call that the same.

 

[jmasterj]

CTI did the price increase at the start of this year

Thanks for the info!

 

[crossfire]

The L1000 costs $100 more because it's a DMS long 54mm motor, I wouldn't call that the same.

Your right it's been a few years since I purchased a L1000

 

[mtnmanak]

I was under the impression that CTI was more interested in making motors for commercial customers and was slowly working their way out of the hobby industry. I have no first hand info, but second hand info was that they wouldn't mind exiting hobby motors all together. If that happens, I have some 38mm and 54mm CTI research cases for sale...

 

[jmasterj]

I was under the impression that CTI was more interested in making motors for commercial customers and was slowly working their way out of the hobby industry. I have no first hand info, but second hand info was that they wouldn't mind exiting hobby motors all together. If that happens, I have some 38mm and 54mm CTI research cases for sale...

That would be very unfortunate.

 

[Frederocket]

I was under the impression that CTI was more interested in making motors for commercial customers and was slowly working their way out of the hobby industry. I have no first hand info, but second hand info was that they wouldn't mind exiting hobby motors all together. If that happens, I have some 38mm and 54mm CTI research cases for sale...

You can always make wind chimes.

 

[Hobie1dog]

there will be lots of price increases on millions of products in the near future as the corporations will keep raising the prices irregardless of what it does to the Joe Blow consumer, because they simply don't care about how much hardship they put on people, it's all about profit, always about profit

 

[Dipstick]

I had not checked prices for a while as I still have enough. Wow, just checked with my vendor and I am just about priced out of this hobby.

Might have to stick with model and midpower for a while here... until I get rich of course, then I will be back

No ill will to the vendors from me...its a business and they have costs. Just my income doesn't offer extra these days.

 

[gdjsky01]

there will be lots of price increases on millions of products in the near future as the corporations will keep raising the prices irregardless of what it does to the Joe Blow consumer, because they simply don't care about how much hardship they put on people, it's all about profit, always about profit

0) this is not rocketry related
1) irregardless is not a word
2) without a profit everyone is unemployed. So who will buy the products? You think people invest in companies to LOSE money?

 

[Hobie1dog]

0) this is not rocketry related
1) irregardless is not a word
2) without a profit everyone is unemployed. So who will buy the products? You think people invest in companies to LOSE money?

EXCUUUUUUSE ME. the IGNORE button is my friend again.

 

[charrington]

there will be lots of price increases on millions of products in the near future as the corporations will keep raising the prices irregardless of what it does to the Joe Blow consumer, because they simply don't care about how much hardship they put on people, it's all about profit, always about profit

Comparing aerotech, cti and other hobby rocketry manufacturers to large corporations that consistently exploit the political climate to rake in record profits is really wrong. Do you think that hobby rocketry manufacturers are raking in the big bucks and exploiting you? Aerotech and CTI employees need to pay rent and eat too, right? The increase of the average motor is far below inflation levels. The price of motors arent up, our wages are down while mega corporations rake in record profits. Dont put aerotech and CTI in the same boat as Amazon and Walmart.

 

[DarthMuffin]

That's a pretty steep price increase. CTI motors are generally my choice, they work well and I like them. But when it comes down to it they don't have many unique offerings that I have to stick with CTI for. Aerotech is starting to look better and better -- they have the availability, and vendor support. If they start to win on price as well, why go with CTI at all?

 

[cls]

1) irregardless is not a wor

But it's an antiuninflammatory. Or something. ;^\

 

[mtnmanak]

Definitely not blaming the companies in this. I have to imagine the margin on hobby motors is quite small (Gary would be able to opine better on this, again, I do not have first hand data). If CTI makes a hobby motor and makes a marginal profit measured in dollars or they can make a commercial motor and make a marginal profit measured in tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of dollars, why try to navigate all the problems associated with hobby motors? It's not like hobby motors are a loss leader to their commercial product line. When it comes to making parts for the aerospace industry, the jump from hobby/amateur to commercial is always more lucrative once a company gets big enough to handle the commercial demand.

Put the market in perspective here. Multiple companies (SpaceX, Viasat, Hughs, Amazon, Iridium, Meta, Alphabet, OneWeb - and a number of other ones) have all started their plans to use low earth orbit satellite constellations to provide internet access. There are about 5000 LEO satellites up there right now. Combined, these companies plan to put over 100,000 new LEO satellites in orbit by 2030!! All launched with one-time use rockets. Even with improved technology in payload efficiencies, that represents tens of thousands of one-time launches. One estimate I saw opined that, if they really got cooking on these plans and started flying as much as they could right now, it would take upwards of 20-30 launches a day for the next 5-7 years to meet the plans put out by these companies. At an average cost of $Millions per flight, the market for commercial propellant and aerospace parts in the next few years is poised to increase by hundreds of $Billions in rapid fashion.

And that is just one segment of the industry. There are large indications that the new Cold War we are in will lead to an increase in military expenditures and pretty much all military propellant has long since been contracted out. Probably another multi-Billion dollar opportunity. And on, and on.

Unfortunately for us, it doesn't take an accountant to realize where the money is, and it is not going to come from selling HPR motors.

 

[jmasterj]

Sounds reasonable but unfortunate for us.

 

[Frederocket]

Definitely not blaming the companies in this. I have to imagine the margin on hobby motors is quite small (Gary would be able to opine better on this, again, I do not have first hand data). If CTI makes a hobby motor and makes a marginal profit measured in dollars or they can make a commercial motor and make a marginal profit measured in tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of dollars, why try to navigate all the problems associated with hobby motors? It's not like hobby motors are a loss leader to their commercial product line. When it comes to making parts for the aerospace industry, the jump from hobby/amateur to commercial is always more lucrative once a company gets big enough to handle the commercial demand.

Put the market in perspective here. Multiple companies (SpaceX, Viasat, Hughs, Amazon, Iridium, Meta, Alphabet, OneWeb - and a number of other ones) have all started their plans to use low earth orbit satellite constellations to provide internet access. There are about 5000 LEO satellites up there right now. Combined, these companies plan to put over 100,000 new LEO satellites in orbit by 2030!! All launched with one-time use rockets. Even with improved technology in payload efficiencies, that represents tens of thousands of one-time launches. One estimate I saw opined that, if they really got cooking on these plans and started flying as much as they could right now, it would take upwards of 20-30 launches a day for the next 5-7 years to meet the plans put out by these companies. At an average cost of $Millions per flight, the market for commercial propellant and aerospace parts in the next few years is poised to increase by hundreds of $Billions in rapid fashion.

And that is just one segment of the industry. There are large indications that the new Cold War we are in will lead to an increase in military expenditures and pretty much all military propellant has long since been contracted out. Probably another multi-Billion dollar opportunity. And on, and on.

Unfortunately for us, it doesn't take an accountant to realize where the money is, and it is not going to come from selling HPR motors.

Just save all of your load forward closures for making wind chimes. I have enough cases in 29mm, 38mm, and 54mm to make at least three sets. in some size casings, more. Maybe at some point, someone will do a build thread.

 

[jmasterj]

Just remembered AMW ProX - the prices there reflect the increases minus the slight discount on MSRP they give.

H123: New MSRP $43.77, AMW $42 (4% discount)
H340: New MSRP $60.33, AMW $57 (5%)
J580: New MSRP $112.40 AMW $105 (7%)
J530: New MSRP $127.78, AMW $120 (6%)
L910: New MSRP $201.15, AMW $209.40 (4% surcharge? weird)

I just thought about placing an order there if they hadn't raised prices yet to go along with MSRP, but alas, it was not to be.

 

[Jmhepworth]

it's all about profit, always about profit

Hobie, it’s easy to blame greed when prices go up, and you’re right, a business is all about profit. If Ceseroni isn’t making money (profit), it will go out of business and stop making rocket motors. We want them to make profit so they can keep making motors.

Actually, though, it’s more about cash than profit. Profit (or loss) certainly influences cash, but so do other things. Increases in the cost of inputs, like material and labor, take cash because they have to be paid immediately. The cash received from sales is delayed by months. And if the economy leads to receivables being delayed, the cash is delayed even more. Businesses fail because they run out of cash more than any other reason.

So while all of us like it better when what we pay for rocket motors doesn’t go up, we need to recognize that if what we pay didn’t go up when inputs do (Gary says the cost of AP has been really tough lately), we would lose the supplier altogether.

 

[rfjustin]

there will be lots of price increases on millions of products in the near future as the corporations will keep raising the prices irregardless of what it does to the Joe Blow consumer, because they simply don't care about how much hardship they put on people, it's all about profit, always about profit

More cheery uplifting news from Good News Bear!

 

[Antares JS]

Put the market in perspective here. Multiple companies (SpaceX, Viasat, Hughs, Amazon, Iridium, Meta, Alphabet, OneWeb - and a number of other ones) have all started their plans to use low earth orbit satellite constellations to provide internet access. There are about 5000 LEO satellites up there right now. Combined, these companies plan to put over 100,000 new LEO satellites in orbit by 2030!! All launched with one-time use rockets.

Try thinking through that again, as well as looking up what the non-SpaceX companies are planning to use to get their constellations launched.

 

[rcktnut]

I had not checked prices for a while as I still have enough. Wow, just checked with my vendor and I am just about priced out of this hobby.

Might have to stick with model and midpower for a while here... until I get rich of course, then I will be back

No ill will to the vendors from me...its a business and they have costs. Just my income doesn't offer extra these days.

That is true. It is not the fault of the manufacturers that they have to raise prices. Each and every individual has to make a decision on how much they can afford/ want to spend on the hobby. At 67 years old and 26 years as a BAR I'm retiring from the hobby as soon as my motor supply has been used up.
I'm afraid that the manufactures are in a catch-22 situation. They have to raise prices to stay in business and at the same time will price themselves out of business. Time will tell, hope that is not the case. This is not a hobby for those without a good amount of disposable income.
My biggest fear is that even the "entry level" motors from LPR to MPR and MPR to HPR are getting prohibitively expensive. Again time will tell, hope I'm wrong

 

[Titan II]

it's all about profit, always about profit

And it is wonderful. My portfolio loves it!

Prices are up for everyone. Shut up and pay or go away.

Retail prices or not, please buy from the vendors that support and come to the launches.

 

[Chad]

Did the hardware go up or just the propellent? If it's only the propellent then the price increase is probably related to cost of materials. And if that's the case, then I would expect AT motors to go up too at some point.