CTI & Aerotech Compatibility

[uncle_vanya]

I know that the Pro38 and Pro54 use different reloads than the Aerotech (and RouseTech & Dr. Rocket) cases. However the CTI site claims that the Pro75 and Pro98 reloads are usable in the Aerotech designed cases. It also seems like they are saying that their cases can use Aerotech reloads but it's not completely clear to me.

The Cesaroni site claims:

"With the Pro75® and Pro98® line of reloadable rocket motors, CTI pioneered cross-brand compatible reloads that fit, and are industry-certified in, both ProX and RMS hardware. Each reload is supplied with o-rings that allow the reload to be used in either brand of hardware, giving you more reload choices..."

Anyone here actually used this cross compatibility feature? Does it cut both ways? I noticed that the statement above mentions different O-rings - which makes me think that using Aerotech reloads in the CTI case may be a challenge due to O-ring fit.

 

[loopy]

It sounds to me like they're saying the CTI loads can be used in AT/RT/DR hardware, not AT loads in the CTI cases.

 

[cjl]

CTI loads are usable in AT hardware for the larger ones, but it does not work the other way around. If you want to pay the least for hardware, buy AT hardware and use it for both the CTI and AT large loads.

 

[Anthony Cesaroni]

Originally posted by cjl
CTI loads are usable in AT hardware for the larger ones, but it does not work the other way around. If you want to pay the least for hardware, buy AT hardware and use it for both the CTI and AT large loads.

Some CTI reloads are certified in AT hardware but not the other way around. The offer to AT to reciprocate and certify their reloads in CTI hardware is still open last time I checked. Cross warranty was also proposed. Although the hardware designs are different, the reloads are compatible, hence the certification approval for CTI in AT hardware for those particular motors. The intent was to reduce costs and help the hobby. CTI continue discussions with AMW along these lines particularly with 38 and 29 mm products and are considering "Pro style, drop in" AT compatable reloads in that caliber range.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

 

[Fore Check]

Originally posted by Anthony Cesaroni
CTI continue discussions with AMW along these lines particularly with 38 and 29 mm products and are considering "Pro style, drop in" AT compatable reloads in that caliber range.

*drool*

*still drooling*







Now this is what I call good stuff!! I hope this comes through!

 

[uncle_vanya]

Originally posted by Anthony Cesaroni
Some CTI reloads are certified in AT hardware but not the other way around.

Is there an easy to find list that shows which one's are and are not and which tubes that go in?

 

[metalwizard]

cesseroni dosent make their own 98mm harware, (unless they have started to make them on their own recently) if you want to fly cesseroni in 98mm the only way to do it is in an aerotech (or similar) case.

but why do that when Aerotech offers more reload choices for those cases allready? that would be like putting a 302 ford in a camaro.. its just wrong LOL

edit: i guess i was wrong, sorry, see below.

 

[cjl]

Because Aerotech doesn't make any 14 second 98mm moonburners?

Yes, AT has variety, but they don't have some of the things that CTI 98mm does. Moonburners are one thing, and also, the CTI loads on the whole give a slightly longer burn than AT WL and have a different effect (LOUD with a skinny white flame and mach diamonds). Finally, the big CTI motors are a bit cheaper than the AT (though honestly, if you're shelling out hundreds of bucks for a motor, a $20 difference shouldn't be the deciding factor)

Oh - and CTI has made Pro98 hardware for quite some time.
https://www.pro38.com/products/pro98/hardware_pro98.php

Oh - as for Aerotech offering more loads for the cases, that isn't true in every case. CTI makes 2 loads each for the 3, 4, and 6 grain cases. AT makes 3 for the 3 and 4 grain cases, but only 1 for the 6 grain.

Honestly, both the CTI and AT are great choices, and the fact that they can all be flown from AT RMS hardware makes it even better.

 

[Len B]

Originally posted by metalwizard
cesseroni dosent make their own 98mm harware, (unless they have started to make them on their own recently) if you want to fly cesseroni in 98mm the only way to do it is in an aerotech (or similar) case.

but why do that when Aerotech offers more reload choices for those cases allready? that would be like putting a 302 ford in a camaro.. its just wrong LOL

"Cesaroni"

I have a Pro-98 set of hardware for 2G and a 4G casing. This is CTI made hardware. I bet it could fit the AT reloads but since AT won't play, I will have to fly the KILLER CTI L610 and M795. Oh well. No suffering here.

Len

 

[metalwizard]

cool i didnt know that, I was told they didnt make them.

you learn something new every day.

 

[Len B]

Originally posted by Anthony Cesaroni
intent was to reduce costs and help the hobby. CTI continue discussions with AMW along these lines particularly with 38 and 29 mm products and are considering "Pro style, drop in" AT compatable reloads in that caliber range.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto [/B]

Hmmm. 29mm. Very cool. I hope it can be worked out.
"Drop in" reloads are great. Sure, some people NEED to build their motor. Been there, done that, still have a lot of them and WILL do that (18mm to 54mm). But once you've done it once, well ...? I540, H565, G79SS, K660, L730, L610, M520, M795 M2505! etc, etc.

O.K. the 75's and 98's are not "drop in" but still ....

Len

 

[uncle_vanya]

Originally posted by Len B
O.K. the 75's and 98's are not "drop in" but still ....

I have never seen a Pro75 or Pro98 reloaded in person so I'm not clear about the differences between that and the Pro38 stuff. How do these compare with the Aerotech 75 and 98mm reloads in terms of number of parts and complexity of assembly?

 

[cjl]

I would guess they aren't too different, considering the cross-compatibility of the hardware...

 

[Anthony Cesaroni]

Originally posted by metalwizard
cesseroni dosent make their own 98mm harware, (unless they have started to make them on their own recently) if you want to fly cesseroni in 98mm the only way to do it is in an aerotech (or similar) case.

but why do that when Aerotech offers more reload choices for those cases allready? that would be like putting a 302 ford in a camaro.. its just wrong LOL

edit: i guess i was wrong, sorry, see below.

CTI makes all it's hardware. Go to https://www.pro38.com/ and check out the 75 and 98's. The hardware was developed and is manufactured in house. Pro 75 and 98 cases have an integral machined rear load step and the closure rings use acme threads with a cool wrench design. Everything is close tolerance and easy to use.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto

 

[uncle_vanya]

OK... so I think I have it now. Let's review:

1) Pro75 and Pro98 reloads are capable of being used in AeroTech 75mm and 98mm cases.

This is due to the fact that these reloads have extra o-rings packaged with designed for use in AeroTech style cases. The reloads are cross-certified with AeroTech hardware when tested.

2) These reloads carry specific info about the particular AeroTech casing that they work with.

As I understand it, this was done at the request of the TMT to avoid confusion. I was told that RSO's and LCO's had expressed concern about the use of these in AeroTech hardware at non-research launches and this was done to reduce the confusion about the certification status.

3) AeroTech reloads are not intended to be used in ProXX cases.

AeroTech reloads do not include o-rings designed for use with ProXX cases. Without these o-rings AeroTech reloads will not function in the ProXX cases. AeroTech reloads are not cross-certified in ProXX hardware and as such they are not qualified for use in ProXX cases at non-research launches.

I assume that research flights could be attempted using ProXX hardware with AeroTech reloads but it would be tricky due to the lack of O-rings. I assume that it would be possible to source appropriate rings from another source - but since no organized testing has been attempted this would be potentially risky.

4) AeroTech does not sanction the use of non-AeroTech reloads in their cases.

This is what AeroTech says in the instructions for their reloads:

• USE ONLY AEROTECH/RCS RMS™ RELOAD KITS AND MOTOR PARTS TO REFURBISH YOUR RMS™ MOTOR. The AeroTech/RCS reload kits have been designed specifically for use in your particular AeroTech/RCS RMS™ motor. Use of imitation components may destroy your motor, rocket and payload and will
invalidate your motor warranty. Only use AeroTech/RCS RMS™ reload kits intended for your specific AeroTech/RCS RMS™ motor. DO NOT INTERCHANGE PARTS! Do not use AeroTech/RCS RMS™ reload kits or motor components for any other purpose than to refurbish an AeroTech/RCS RMS™ motor.

Please NOTE: I am not advocating any position. I am just trying to summarize what I think I have learned. If I have something wrong please let me know. I would like to be an informed consumer when I buy larger motors in the future.

 

[cjl]

That is all correct as far as I know.