CSA Black Brant 9 (with Terrier booster) Pictures

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Ez2cDave

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The horizontal row of vertical fasteners is at the base of the motor casing and the "tube" under the fins is a "sleeve" over the external nozzle.

The Fins and Fin Mounts look "off" on that display rocket . . .

Dave F.

FIN DETAIL - VC.JPG
1618325613513.png
LOA-47 - LARGE.jpg
2 black brant2s motor.jpg
DSCN2062 - ADJ.jpg
DSCN2064 - ADJ.jpg
DSCN2065 - ADJ - CROP.jpg
BBVC Fin Can.jpg
fin.JPG
New Black Brant 21.jpg
 
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bobby_hamill

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Cool Photos thanks for sharing them.
I wonder why the outside skin on the upper stage did not cover the lower fin section ?

Bobby
 

Ez2cDave

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Cool Photos thanks for sharing them.
I wonder why the outside skin on the upper stage did not cover the lower fin section ?

Bobby
Bobby,

The horizontal row of vertical fasteners is at the base of the motor casing and the "tube" under the fins is a "sleeve" over the external nozzle.

I posted some items above . . .

Dave F.
 
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Bruiser

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I wonder why the outside skin on the upper stage did not cover the lower fin section ?

Bobby


What area are you asking about? This one?
Fins 1.jpg




Anybody else notice the fins on the sustainer? From Wikipedia:

Black Brant IX[edit]
  • Status: Active
  • Black Brant IX (a.k.a. Terrier Black Brant), a two-stage rocket with a Terrier Mk 70 booster first stage and a Black Brant VB second stage,[25][26] Black Brant IXB,[27] Black Brant IXBM1,[28] Black Brant IXCM1,[29] Terrier Black Brant XI Mod 2[30]
  • Gross Mass: 2,200 kg (4,900 lb) (Black Brant IX)
  • Height: 12.20 m (40.0 ft)
  • Diameter: 0.46 m (1 ft 6 in)
  • Apogee: 300 km (190 mi)
  • First Launch: 03/16/1982
  • Last Launch: 01/27/2020 13:40 UTC

So the sustainer is supposed to be a Black Brant VB but those fins are all wrong both in outline and that they have no tapers. That makes me wonder if they are a "special" fin, maybe a one-off but I'm thinking they are most likely made of plywood. Notice the fin mount plates? They are all "bubbled". That could be some serious corrosion but more likely it's plywood delaminating
 

TonyL

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It is very nice to see a display that one can get up close to, thanks for all the pictures.

By 'one-off' fins, one might mean just a 'mock up' for a display. They certainly don't look like credible flight fins. I also remember the Terrier fin adjusters at the front where the tabs are, but that is getting to be a long time ago. Either way the inter-stage seems ancient as the modern ones are much more streamlined.

But to answer the original question about why the 'skin' does not go all the way back? Because it probably is not "skin", but rather the motor case itself as is typical practice in rockets and missiles. One can expect that the aft section is not the same diameter because it does not have to be. It could be that it keeps the fin brackets out of the airstream and reduces weight. I wonder about the function of the two 'duck bills' on the inter-stage.

br/

Tony
 

John Brohm

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It would appear that the fins are indeed substitutes. Looking closely, one can see in the photo that the fin root does not extend to the end of the fin can (what Dave refers to as the "Tube" that covers the nozzle). Also, the BBVB/C fin has a fin foot that attaches to the fin can with seven socket head machine screws; the photos show only six, and one can see the open hole in the milled fin can mounting plate (at the can end) where the 7th screw would go, were the fin foot of the proper length. As pointed out by others, the fins are missing the planar tapers, and most likely these are just mock up fins as has been suggested. Or perhaps not; maybe they come from something else. But what we can say is they are not BBVB/C fins.

Regarding drawing 600-00389 (Dave's first attachment), I believe that drawing has an error in the depiction of the taper line that starts at the tip at STA 208.75. As that line reaches the root, it lands at a location forward of the fin can joint, and forward of the forward edge of the fin foot. I've not seen any BBVB/C fin with that feature; all of them have that taper line landing in line with the forward edge of the fin foot at the root.

I've been pecking away here on a Black Brant VIII model, and am just about ready to put the sustainer into the shop for priming. Still a few details to add, but the fin can section is coming along:

Fin Can Dry Fit.jpg
 

Ez2cDave

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Regarding drawing 600-00389 (Dave's first attachment), I believe that drawing has an error in the depiction of the taper line that starts at the tip at STA 208.75. As that line reaches the root, it lands at a location forward of the fin can joint, and forward of the forward edge of the fin foot. I've not seen any BBVB/C fin with that feature; all of them have that taper line landing in line with the forward edge of the fin foot at the root.
John,

If you have additional Drawings or images, please post them . . .

Dave F.
 

jfcusson

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Very interesting discussion, and I am now very curious about the fins. Sometimes I am meeting people from Magellan (Bristol), crossing my finger that if I ask they'll be able to inform, or link me with somebody that would know. Indeed they look of "different quality" than the rest, and somewhat awkward. I wonder if security will come and get me if I take a ladder to go see if this is plywood :).

Actually, I wonder if these are not Black Brant IV fins. Here are some extracts from the BB Manual attached.
 

Attachments

Ez2cDave

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More BB IV info . . . I think you are correct about those being BLACK BRANT IV Fins.

Dave F.

Black_Brant_4A-ADJ.jpg





1618373719508.png




1618373808896.png
 

bobby_hamill

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Dave
I don't think so would no hurt to test.
I dont think they would be plywood as for an long term
display they would need replacing . Maybe its just the paint bubbling up ?
 

Ez2cDave

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Ez2cDave

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Are those TAURUS Booster fins on that TERRIER Booster, in the original poster's pics ?

On another note . . . Remember that the BLACK BRANT IX uses a TERRIER booster, NOT a NIKE booster ( they look very similar, but are totally different ).

The NIKE Booster is 16.44" diameter.
The TERRIER Booster is 18.01" diameter
The TAURUS Booster is 22.875" diameter ( Honest John Motor )

Dave F.

TERRIER BOOSTER ( Trapezoidal Fins )
IMG_2152.jpg


NIKE BOOSTER ( Trapezoidal Fins )
1618600379326.png


TERRIER FINS . . .
scale-000580-000575-Fin_page1.jpg


scale-000581-000575-Fin_page2.jpg


TAURUS FINS . . .
1618601494856.png
 
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