Createx Masking Problems

Discussion in 'Techniques' started by mjennings, Jan 24, 2020.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 24, 2020 #1

    mjennings

    mjennings

    mjennings

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,547
    Likes Received:
    6
    Does anyone else have issues with Createx paints (both regular and Wicked Colors) having poor adhesion to the primer coat? I've had several rockets and other projects that when I let the first color dry, usually over night and then apply my masking tape (often green Frog tape, but some times plan old Masking tape or other tapes) the first paint layer peels off of the primer? I'm using ACE's in house primer, and it is happening on both sanded and unsanded primer. The primer passes the sniff test, before sanding / color application, so I'm assuming it is fully cured. The Createx is shot either straight or slightly thinned using one of Createx's thinners. Any thoughts? Thanks
     
  2. Jan 24, 2020 #2

    Zeus-cat

    Zeus-cat

    Zeus-cat

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,211
    Likes Received:
    404
    Is a day long enough to fully cure so that you can apply tape? Try letting sit for a week. I've used Createx, but never masked it so just guessing.
     
  3. Jan 24, 2020 #3

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,879
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indianapolis Metro Area
    For best results use a Createx sealer over top of whatever regular solvent based primer you are using. I use Auto Air Sealer White:

    https://www.amazon.com/Autoair-Base-Coat-Sealer-White/dp/B0006IJP48
    There is also a sealer dark.

    I spray it from a cheap Harbor Freight 4 oz cup spray gun which cleans up really easy. Then after an hour or so I start my actual colors (beginning with a coat of opaque white in many cases).
     
    tomsteve likes this.
  4. Jan 24, 2020 #4

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    219
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MN
    Even if your primer is dry there is a trick to removing masking. Try peeling it back on itself, do not pull it at 90 degree angles from your work.
     
  5. Jan 24, 2020 #5

    Jozef

    Jozef

    Jozef

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    You absolutely need to use one of the Createx sealers. Also, regular Createx is not intended for hard surface application. Auto Air and Wicked Colors are for formulated for automotive and other hard surface applications. Be sure to add 4030 balancing clear per instructions It helps with flow as well as adhesion. Lots of Createx info on You Tube as well as the Createx web site.
     
    tomsteve and Marc_G like this.
  6. Jan 24, 2020 #6

    mjennings

    mjennings

    mjennings

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,547
    Likes Received:
    6
    Awesome thanks all.

    I shot my Alien 8 last night and it unmasked fine, but the pearl black first coat had been on for months. (One small peal but that was a primer to wood failure not a Createx to primer failure)
     
  7. Jan 28, 2020 #7

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    233
    Location:
    SEPA
    What ratio of paint to balance and reducer are you using? And which balance and reducer? I use the 4030 balancing clear and the 4012 or 4020 reducer; paint is usually 50% of my mix and 30% of 4030 and the remainder is the reducer. I never had a problem with paint lift using regular blue masking tape or Tamiya masking tape. I am careful when removing tape though. I do not always use a base coat sometimes with the opaque colors I go right on top of fully cured Krylon primer. I always wait a couple days at minimum for primer to cure.
     
  8. Jan 30, 2020 #8

    mjennings

    mjennings

    mjennings

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,547
    Likes Received:
    6
    Often I shoot it straight form the bottle sometimes with some 4012 mixed in. I bought some of the 4030 and the white base, plan to get the black and silver as well. (wish my Hobby Lobby sold it in bigger bottles). I wait till my rocket passes the sniff test and then add a few days at the minimum, often lately it's a few months. I need to try the 180 degree tape pull off too.

    On another note other than Amazon where do you find 1-2 oz mixing cups?
     
  9. Jan 30, 2020 #9

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,879
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indianapolis Metro Area
    I have seen the small cups at CVS or Walgreens once in a while sold as medicine measuring cups. Ask at pharmacy counter if they have them on the store.

    Another paint peel note; make sure to use very low tack tape like Tamiya or the lowest stick 3M tape. I do one wrap with Tamiya then 3M over it the rest of the way.
     
  10. Jan 30, 2020 #10

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    233
    Location:
    SEPA
    I mix in a spare glass airbrush jar and clean it out when I’m finished; for larger batches I mix in a half pint or larger glass mason jar. Also these paints should be rested for a few minutes after mixing to allow for ‘emulsification’. Always read and follow directions on the bottle. Most of these call for a balancing clear and a reducer. Often exact ratios do not matter but some of each must be used. And usually for spraying only about half the mixture is actual paint.
     
  11. Jan 30, 2020 #11

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Marc_G

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    5,879
    Likes Received:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Indianapolis Metro Area
    I've had good experience shooting most Wicked Colors straight from the bottle. I think they are designed for that. Others in the Auto-something lineup are too thick to flow well such as some of the Sparklescent metallics. It's a bit trial and error. The Auto Air opaque white goes well straight without any mixing, at least via my air brushes.
     
  12. Jan 30, 2020 #12

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    solid_fuel

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2017
    Messages:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    233
    Location:
    SEPA
    They are definitely not designed to be sprayed without reduction. you may have had good experience but they are designed to be reduced and balanced. I believe it helps with flow and adhesion. the balance and reducers also help orientation of solids in pearls and metallics. hardness of the coating the 4030 makes the paint harder and more chip resistant. here is a link to the instructions from 2017. I know Createx has recently come out with a new reducer and new instructions, at least for the candy O2 colors (which are awesome), but I haven't tried the new reducer or balancer they just started recommending. https://createxcolors.com/pdf/2017-Createx-Hard-Surface-Application-Guide_Auto-Air-Colors.pdf

    Also always strain through mesh after mixing at least for the transparent colors definitely for the candy 2o colors.

    some highlights from the PDF:

    4030 Mix Additive | Balancing Clear



    •  A water-soluble, polyurethane resin additive recommended for direct mixing for improved spray performance and durability.
    •  Mix with most colors 10-30% per volume. Generally, more 4030 mixed with paint improves flow and coating formation, especially when laying out color with a mini-gun or full sized spray gun.
    •  4030 is not a reducer in that it does not truly lower paint’s viscosity. 4030 is a flow & leveling enhancer that creates solvent-like performance and allows paint to air dry to a more durable coating with improved adhesion over hard-to-paint surfaces.
    •  Not for use with AutoBorne Sealers; reduce with 4012 High Performance Reducer.

    4012 High Performance Reducer


    •  Our go-to reducer for airbrushing.
    •  May be added to colors in any ratio.
    •  Allows colors such as Createx Illustration Colors to air-dry with its designed delayed-crosslinking for reductive techniques.

    4020 Automotive Reducer


    •  An aggressive reducer made with Acetone for making paint flow like solvent-based paint when airbrushing.
    •  Colors air dry to a harder coating when reduced with 4020 compared with 4012; use 4012 Reducer for soft-erasing & reductive techniques.
    •  Only for professional use in a controlled environment that is adequately ventilated and applied using proper safety gear including but not limited to a NIOSH / MSHA approved respirator.

    • PREPARATION


      Proper preparation is crucial to ensuring a successful paint job. This guide does not cover preparation of substrate defects.

      Prepare surface with attention to the following:
      •  Clean the surface thoroughly before & after sanding. Use both soap & water and a degreaser to remove oils before sealer or paint. Allow enough time to ensure all solvents & waters have flashed from paint-ready surface.
      •  Scuff with 600‐800 grit sandpaper or equivalent grade scuff pad to ensure a flat surface. Use a sanding block, not finger tips, when sanding.
      •  Scuff thoroughly to remove all gloss areas from the surface, especially crevices, edges and areas difficult to reach as this is where paint will often peel. We agree, sanding isn’t always fun, but good paintjobs are. Sand thoroughly all crevices being careful not to burn through an edge exposing bare metal. If metal exposed, treat with phosphoric acid or apply DTM etch-primer before re-applying sealer.
      •  As mentioned elsewhere in guide, we highly recommend starting with AutoBorne Sealers due to their excellent adhesion. Custom painting involves paint abuse such as excessive taping and cutting into with a blade during graphic application.


      Strain Color



    Use a nylon meshed‐filter to strain colors prior to each usage especially transparent or candy2O colors.

    • TAPING & MASKING


      After colors have thoroughly dried, they are safe to directly tape on without the use of an inter‐coat.
      •  After thoroughly drying, Auto Air Colors and AutoBorne Sealers are safe to directly tape on with medium and high tack tape & masking film.
      •  4004 Auto Air Colors Transparent Base may be used as a light, protective inter‐coat over paint on which to tape over. Urethane inter‐coat clears and bases may also be applied as an inter‐coat.
      •  Tip: To create clean edges along tape lines, apply another light coat of the base color along the graphic edge prior to applying the graphic・s color(s). The additional coat of the base color will fill‐in any open space under the tape and crawl in slightly under the tape line, creating a crisper line when the graphic color is next applied
     
    Chris_H likes this.

Share This Page

Group Builder