Covid Vaccines

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cwbullet

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If I’m in a store and the person next to me is not wearing a mask, I don’t care. I’m vaccinated.
And the crap that many people wear, like bandannas and cloth masks don’t work for aerosolized viruses anyway.
I disagree. All masks work to a degree. Saying they don't work indicates they don't do anything and the models clearly show that cloth masks reduce the spread of COVID and Influenza.
 

davel

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bandannas and cloth masks don’t work for aerosolized viruses anyway.
I disagree. All masks work to a degree. Saying they don't work indicates they don't do anything and the models clearly show that cloth masks reduce the spread of COVID and Influenza.
I remember from the beginning they weren't sure if the virus was being transmitted via droplets (>5 microns) or via an aerosol. Did they ever decide on this? I would think that the cloth masks are going to help a lot more with the droplets than the aerosol.
 

cwbullet

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Flu is droplets, covid mainly aerosol
True, but COVID is extremely sticky and sticks to the mask. The issue with increased spread with some masks is likely hands and not the mask. All masks reduce viral aerosol. The problem is people touch the crapy masks too much. I know it is a lot of conjecture. I did a study to look at Sarin gas using UV reactive powder. Nearly 70% of people trained could or did not properly maintain proper mask hygiene and this in people trained to do it.

I do not like fleece and other single-ply masks, but saying they do nto do anything is overstating the facts. If properly used, they work at reducing the viral burden, if not, they may increase it. They should be avoided because human nature makes it exceptionally rare that someone will be successful. The problem is not the mask, but the human.
 

cwbullet

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I remember from the beginning they weren't sure if the virus was being transmitted via droplets (>5 microns) or via an aerosol. Did they ever decide on this? I would think that the cloth masks are going to help a lot more with the droplets than the aerosol.
It is still very controversial. It is aerosolized and droplet bourne. You can also get it from surfaces. We suspect that most get it from an aerosol. Evidence is lacking. My own Infectious and Public Health advisors argue this if they sit in the room too long. I cannot imagine a day at the CDC.
 

NateB

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Turns out CVS has openings not shown on my state site. He now gets his first shot Sunday 5/16 and will be fully vaccinated in time for a trip with his grandparents late June!
Our hospital site just opened up for walk-ins. They are using the Pfizer vaccine, but I'm not sure if they are giving it to that age group or only over 16 right now.
 

cwbullet

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Our hospital site just opened up for walk-ins. They are using the Pfizer vaccine, but I'm not sure if they are giving it to that age group or only over 16 right now.
We are opening to 12-18 when the rules and education products are released. We are experiencing a big jump in vaccine requests. We will start running out if this continues. Two weeks ago, I could not give them away.
 

modeltrains

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My own Infectious and Public Health advisors argue this if they sit in the room too long. I cannot imagine a day at the CDC.
I can imagine it pretty much instantly, the acronym pretty much says it outright, Controversy Discord Contention
;) 😄
 

Sandy H.

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We are opening to 12-18 when the rules and education products are released. We are experiencing a big jump in vaccine requests. We will start running out if this continues. Two weeks ago, I could not give them away.
Running out due to increased demand sounds better than the alternative!

I wonder if there is a way to enforce the 'no vaccine = mask' vs. 'vaccine = no mask' thought without it becoming so political that it is a flash point. I doubt it, but I would participate (already got both shots). If kids can't get into rated R movies, people under 21 can't buy booze, you have to be 17/18 to join the military etc., then is there a reasonable way to do that with vaccines? I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to go to school or college without the proper vaccines and boosters. . .Maybe that can apply to other areas as well.

I saw that our NC governor just opened things up a lot more. I hope that encourages people to say "Oh, if I get the vaccine, I don't have to wear a mask" but I expect it to be "Oh, the problem is over. I don't need a mask AND don't have to get the vaccine."

We'll see. Hopefully the upcoming spike in NC is small. . .

Sandy.
 

NateB

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We are opening to 12-18 when the rules and education products are released. We are experiencing a big jump in vaccine requests. We will start running out if this continues. Two weeks ago, I could not give them away.
Glad to hear that demand is increasing again. Is that because of the new guidelines from the CDC in the past 24 hours or was demand increasing before it?
 

cwbullet

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Glad to hear that demand is increasing again. Is that because of the new guidelines from the CDC in the past 24 hours or was demand increasing before it?
Mostly today and yesterday.
 

Devin Batten

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then is there a reasonable way to do that with vaccines? I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to go to school or college without the proper vaccines and boosters. .
That's a very slippery slope. Requesting that we open up our personal information for the sole purpose of enforcement of a contested mandate opens everyone up to only more control measures. And there is a waiver for vaccinations at schools. Would there be a waiver in this case? And I'm not following the train of thought here. We were told to wear a mask to "protect others" and now it's if you're protected you dont need to. But those that aren't vaccinated need to wear masks to protect the vaccinated? And the cdc even admitted in a FOIA request theres no study for the effectiveness of masks.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/cdc-admits-no-rcts-support-mask-efficacy/comments
 

afadeev

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I wonder if there is a way to enforce the 'no vaccine = mask' vs. 'vaccine = no mask' thought without it becoming so political that it is a flash point.
There really isn't. It's all based on an honor system based compliance, and works exactly as well as the integrity of the participants.

I'm pretty sure I wasn't allowed to go to school or college without the proper vaccines and boosters. . .Maybe that can apply to other areas as well.
I don't think it will scale easily beyond schools, colleges, or places of employment. Basically, all private business that issue their own ID cards, and can impose and validate conditions under which those cards are issued, and access to the facilities is granted.

List of colleges and universities that have added Covid-19 to their requirements for fall of 2021 continues to grow:

That's a very slippery slope. Requesting that we open up our personal information for the sole purpose of enforcement of a contested mandate opens everyone up to only more control measures.
Nothing slippery or contested about any of this.
Business and schools have always been able to impose whatever requirements they deem appropriate for the purpose of employment, or business operations. Including vaccinations requirements.
Private schools and business have more flexibility in this regard.
Public schools will follow state-specific government mandates.

And there is a waiver for vaccinations at schools. Would there be a waiver in this case?
Vaccination compliance waivers in public schools vary by state.

There are no such waivers at most private schools.
If you don't comply, you are not allowed on premises.
Simple, easy, legal, logical, effective.
 

Devin Batten

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Simple, easy, legal, logical, effective.
✔, ✔, maybe, dont see it, still has yet to be proven.
At the end of the day these vaccines are still under experimental conditions. Dont get it twisted I'm getting the vaccine. Just dont agree with making it a requirement tos exercise your freedoms. We need to stop exporting power to businesses.
 

modeltrains

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We need to stop exporting power to businesses.
Hmm, looking at it from a government expenditure point of view, if the power is exported to business along with the cost and burden of exercising and enforcing the power, win-win for the government.
 

NateB

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Just dont agree with making it a requirement tos exercise your freedoms.
I agree that the vaccine shouldn't be mandatory under the EUA. At my hospital, flu and other vaccines are mandatory and they draw blood to test for continued immunity and give us boosters as needed. The covid vaccines were NOT mandatory under the EUA. Full approval is around the corner. I suspect we will see more places make the vaccine mandatory when it is no longer under the EUA.
 

Cl(VII)

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My son ended up getting his first shot yesterday. I had him at an apt near the mass vaccination site in downtown Dallas, so we just swung by...45 min start to finish. He is a bit tired today, and has a sore shoulder, but otherwise good.
 

NateB

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Why not just give them the immunizations without testing?
We have to give vaccine records when we get hired. Each year during our physical, they do lab work and one of the things they check is to ensure the vaccinations we have received are still effective. If we need a booster, we get one. Anything we aren't immunized for that we commonly encounter, we get.
 

Devin Batten

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Each year during our physical, they do lab work
Why are they checking to ensure the antibody count is still high enough to provide protection? Why dont they just assume you're not protected and give you a booster?
 

mo2872

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My 15 year old got his first dose on Friday. He was a little crabby and tired Saturday, but he's 15, so.........not sure that was the vax.......ROFL
 

modeltrains

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2 points interest me in this from JAMA, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777785

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advises that even after they’re fully vaccinated, people should continue to mask up and socially distance in public places in part because they could still unknowingly become infected and, although asymptomatic, transmit SARS-CoV-2 to people who haven’t yet received their shots.
And, earlier in text,

One reason SARS-CoV-2 is throwing out variants and will continue to do so is because relatively few people globally have been vaccinated, Norman Baylor, PhD, a former director of the FDA’s Office of Vaccines Research and Review, noted in an interview. “This virus is like, ‘Yep, I’ve got plenty of people I can infect, and the more I replicate, the more I can mutate,’” Baylor said.
Immediately before the above,
That’s to be expected, Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), told JAMA Editor in Chief Howard Bauchner, MD, in a February 3 podcast. Regardless of the platform on which the vaccine is based, Fauci said, “you still have a fixed immunogen and a virus that’s changing. Sooner or later, you’re going to get a mutant that evades that.”
Source:
March 17, 2021

COVID-19 Vaccines vs Variants—Determining How Much Immunity Is Enough

Rita Rubin, MA

JAMA. 2021;325(13):1241-1243. doi:10.1001/jama.2021.3370
 

modeltrains

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Hmm. Well, it is May now, so what's the current?
Do Vaccines Protect Against Infection and Prevent Transmission?
Having COVID-19 vaccines that prevent infection and transmission will be critical to stopping the pandemic, but there is not yet clear evidence that this occurs. Protection against transmission may be difficult to prove because a decline in infections may be due to multiple factors. Preliminary data from phase 3 trials suggest some reduction in asymptomatic infection after vaccination. Early results from Israel suggest a decline in infections and symptomatic disease after vaccination.3 It would be unusual if the vaccines did not prevent infection, but the extent of protection is unknown.
Source:
March 4, 2021
COVID-19 in 2021—Continuing Uncertainty
Carlos del Rio, MD1; Preeti Malani, MD, MSJ2,3
JAMA. 2021;325(14):1389-1390. doi:10.1001/jama.2021.3760
 

OverTheTop

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Down here we have mainly the AstraZeneca vaccine and with the number of adverse clotting incidents (with a 25% death rate) a lot of people are holding back from getting the vaccine. 29% are hesitant to get it currently and likely holding out for alternative vaccines. The interesting thing in that survey was that the anti-vaxers were utterly insignificant in the figures.
 

Antares JS

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Well, some days later, it seems I was one of the lucky ones. I was incredibly lethargic on Thursday night and went to sleep around 8, but after waking up the next morning all I had was the usual arm soreness, and now that's gone away too.
 

modeltrains

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29% are hesitant to get it currently and likely holding out for alternative vaccines. The interesting thing in that survey was that the anti-vaxers were utterly insignificant in the figures.
Would it be appropriate to say something like, Hmm, interesting.
 

boatgeek

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WA in general and Seattle in particular are winding down their mass vaccination sites due to reduced demand. They're now changing focus to find people where they are. Every public middle and high school in town is hosting a couple of vax sites, and they've gone on to the state ferries to pick up commuters going across Puget Sound. Also, pretty much any decent-sized business can contact Seattle Fire Department and get a popup vax site. I've seen news about both a local burger chain and brewpub getting into that action. People who got the vax there got a free burger and a $1 beer (respectively). The brewpub would have given free beer, but state liquor regs require them to charge something nominal.
 

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