Covid Vaccines

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Marc_G

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,916
Reaction score
934
Location
Indianapolis Metro Area

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
650
Location
Orefield, PA
Perspective Please: 7 million J&J vaccines. 6 cases of blood clots. Less than one in a million. Statistically, of the people who received J&J shots, More were bitten by rabid badgers afterwards than contracted this rare problem.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
Perspective Please: 7 million J&J vaccines. 6 cases of blood clots. Less than one in a million. Statistically, of the people who received J&J shots, More were bitten by rabid badgers afterwards than contracted this rare problem.
i Think you have to understand what an EUA is and what it requires. Any serious must be investigated. This is normal. It is not overreaction.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
650
Location
Orefield, PA
i Think you have to understand what an EUA is and what it requires. Any serious must be investigated. This is normal. It is not overreaction.
Oh I fully understand, and understand the halt in using those shots until looked into. But if this does not fall under the category of "acceptable risk", then nothing does. The anti-vaxxers will use this as a rallying cry, which would be silly.
 

Exactimator

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
870
Reaction score
182
Got my 2nd Pfizer shot Monday. My shoulder was sore for a day, but less sore than the first shot. Yesterday I could tell I was fighting something off. Light headache came and went a few times, couple rounds of chills, a couple naps. Slept a lot last night and feel great today.

In two weeks I'll be at full effect, the 5G will be hooked up to the government trackers, and I'll know the location of my third arm.

As for the J&J, it appears to be very low percentage of cases that have clotting issues but I appreciate the transparency and caution. It will simultaneously give the pro-vaxxers a reason to trust the process and anti-vaxxers a reason to remain anti-vax. Once my kids get the vaccine the latter will no longer be my problem.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
Oh I fully understand, and understand the halt in using those shots until looked into. But if this does not fall under the category of "acceptable risk", then nothing does. The anti-vaxxers will use this as a rallying cry, which would be silly.
I think I agree. Unless we find that a high percentage of patient develop clotting problems, it should be a non issue. We may find that is tied to a small group of women or people with habits and be able to better consent folks.
 

Ez2cDave

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
4,538
Reaction score
1,356
Perspective Please: 7 million J&J vaccines. 6 cases of blood clots. Less than one in a million. Statistically, of the people who received J&J shots, More were bitten by rabid badgers afterwards than contracted this rare problem.
More perspective: The Covid-19 virus is 99.8% non-fatal & 80-85% ( or more ) asymptomatic. People are making the choice to vaccinate, or not, based on that. If 100% of the U.S. Population ( 330 million people ) contracted Covid, 660,000 fatalities would occur, nationwide, statistically. Of course, a much smaller percentage have actually contracted Covid. People are weighing the "percentages" of the Virus, versus the "risks & unknowns" of the Vaccine(s).

Dave F.
 
Last edited:

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
650
Location
Orefield, PA
....More perspective: The Covid-19 virus is 99.8% non-fatal ...
Source, please? Everything I have read, everywhere, ever, that number has not been seen, by orders of magnitude.

CDC Places recovery rate between 96% and 97%, which is light years away from 99.8%

We are approaching your quoted 660k death toll already, and the virus is FAR from over.
 
Last edited:

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
I am very concerned the J&J pause will be gasoline on the fire of scepticisim for the public.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
Source, please? Everything I have read, everywhere, ever, that number has not been seen, by orders of magnitude.

CDC Places recovery rate between 96% and 97%, which is light years away from 99.8%

We are approaching your quoted 660k death toll already, and the virus is FAR from over.
I think depends on how you define recovery. I am 99% recovered but still get short of breath with exertion. Some patients will never smell or state again. which portion do these patients fit in? The 3% or 97%?
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
650
Location
Orefield, PA
I think depends on how you define recovery. I am 99% recovered but still get short of breath with exertion. Some patients will never smell or state again. which portion do these patients fit in? The 3% or 97%?
Recovery = continuing to stand upright and take in nourishment. You are one of the lucky 96-97% that has "recovered"
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
Recovery = continuing to stand upright and take in nourishment. You are one of the lucky 96-97% that has "recovered"
That is definitely one option. I prefer a little tighter definition - link able to return to normal duties.
 

PayLoad

I don't do spirals
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
558
Reaction score
650
Location
Orefield, PA
That is definitely one option. I prefer a little tighter definition - link able to return to normal duties.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. However, the CDC sees two categories for the outcome of people who have contracted this disease.
1. Recovered
2. Dead
 

Ez2cDave

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
4,538
Reaction score
1,356
Source, please? Everything I have read, everywhere, ever, that number has not been seen, by orders of magnitude.

CDC Places recovery rate between 96% and 97%, which is light years away from 99.8%
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map

Okay . . . Source is the CDC's "IFR" ( Infection Fatality Ratio ) . . . Updated, as of March 19, 2021.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

The numbers below are taken directly from the CDC’s website. They are IFR (Infection Fatality Ratio) survivability best estimates after contracting the virus.

1618441329961.png


  • 0-19 years old survivability rate is 99.997%
  • 20-49 years old survivability rate is 99.98%
  • 50-69 years old survivability rate is 99.5%
  • 70 years old or older survivability rate is 94.6%
To show it another way, the CDC’s new estimate for the death rate after contracting COVID-19 by age are:
  • 0-19 years old death rate is .003% or .00003
  • 20-49 years old death rate is .02% or .0002
  • 50-69 years old death rate is .5%% or .005
  • 70 years old or older death rate is 5.4% or .054

The Centers for Diseases Control & Prevention released new COVID-19 numbers this month, showing the likelihood of a person dying from the coronavirus. If you are a person who is worried about COVID-19, these numbers may make you feel better. While to those who feel that too much is being made of the coronavirus, the numbers may provide more confidence about your position.

Dave F.
 

Zeus-cat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
4,628
Reaction score
836
I had a root canal in the morning and my second COVID shot in the afternoon. Not a great combo; I recommend avoiding the situation if possible. Sadly, it wasn't a good option for me, so I had the root canal after having been in pain for the last 5 days.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
26,930
Reaction score
4,416
Location
Glennville, GA
I had a root canal in the morning and my second COVID shot in the afternoon. Not a great combo; I recommend avoiding the situation if possible. Sadly, it wasn't a good option for me, so I had the root canal after having been in pain for the last 5 days.
I would suspect the root canal is worse than the shot. I had to have a pulpotomy which is similar. I can’t say I enjoyed it, btu there will be better days,
 

Zeus-cat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
4,628
Reaction score
836
I would suspect the root canal is worse than the shot. I had to have a pulpotomy which is similar. I can’t say I enjoyed it, btu there will be better days,
The root canal is winning the pain race with ease. I had some pain meds from the dentist and I took them after getting home from the COVID shot. I woke up 3 hours later and it was just a few hours before I had to go back to bed. I'm better today and will hold off on the pain meds to see if I need them. I also have antibiotics I'll be on for a week.

Interesting thing with the shot. The nurse switched needles on the syringes after filling the syringes from the vial. My wife and I both barely felt the new needle. Pretty bizarre if you know my wife; she cringes when they show injections on the news.
 

dr wogz

Fly caster
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
6,382
Reaction score
1,522
Location
Land of Poutine!
Under the heading of "No sense makes sense".
A young lady got her Covid vaccine shot today.
Encourages others to do the same.
Pic on Instagram.
Huge NEGATIVE pushback from her followers.
Unbelievable.
Ivanka Trump (@ivankatrump) • Instagram photos and videos
that should be in the 'sad but true' thread..

or maybe just the 'sad' part (the feed back she got, not the fact she got the shot! Good for her!)

or maybe we need to have a 'people are stupid' thread!
 

Bill S

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
727
Reaction score
335
The root canal is winning the pain race with ease. I had some pain meds from the dentist and I took them after getting home from the COVID shot. I woke up 3 hours later and it was just a few hours before I had to go back to bed. I'm better today and will hold off on the pain meds to see if I need them. I also have antibiotics I'll be on for a week.

Interesting thing with the shot. The nurse switched needles on the syringes after filling the syringes from the vial. My wife and I both barely felt the new needle. Pretty bizarre if you know my wife; she cringes when they show injections on the news.
My pharmacist wife does the same thing; she draws up the needed doses with one needle (a larger diameter one), and then switches to the smaller gauge needles for the actual injection.
 

Bill S

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
727
Reaction score
335
Under the heading of "No sense makes sense".
A young lady got her Covid vaccine shot today.
Encourages others to do the same.
Pic on Instagram.
Huge NEGATIVE pushback from her followers.
Unbelievable.
Ivanka Trump (@ivankatrump) • Instagram photos and videos
My take on it is this: There are a LOT of people out there who have lost faith in the integrity of our societal institutions and our govt. They view said .govt entities with distrust. They view the media with distrust (I trust them not at all). They view large corporations with distrust (mainly woke, not trustworthy at all). So when these entities come out and say take this experimental vaccine that's been rushed through approval, we don't know if its safe or not but you can't hold us accountable if it isnt, they balk. They perhaps view the vaccine as potentially more dangerous than getting Covid. Nobody knows the long term effects of these new tech vaccines, so that creates uncertaintity as well.

Without getting into the whole conspiracy theories of nano-chips in the vaccines, etc, etc, there just isn't much trust in those in power, whether that be D or R. So naturally when said authorities push the vaccines, people just don't trust them. They don't believe those in power have their best interests in mind - they are suspicious, and for good reason. Getting back any semblance of trust is going to be very hard, as people have lost trust/faith for good reason.
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
1,746
Reaction score
1,687
Location
NE Indiana
Interesting thing with the shot. The nurse switched needles on the syringes after filling the syringes from the vial.
There is a difference between fill needles and injection needles. Fill needles are more blunt and injection needles will vary in length and gauge to best suit the injection site. You also change needles to eliminate the chance that bits of rubber from the self healing cap on the vials don't get into your patient. There are also filter fill needles to use with glass ampules to make sure no shards of glass get into the injection solution.
 
Last edited:

CalebJ

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
700
Reaction score
476
Okay . . . Source is the CDC's "IFR" ( Infection Fatality Ratio ) . . . Updated, as of March 19, 2021.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

The numbers below are taken directly from the CDC’s website. They are IFR (Infection Fatality Ratio) survivability best estimates after contracting the virus.

View attachment 459968

  • 0-19 years old survivability rate is 99.997%
  • 20-49 years old survivability rate is 99.98%
  • 50-69 years old survivability rate is 99.5%
  • 70 years old or older survivability rate is 94.6%
To show it another way, the CDC’s new estimate for the death rate after contracting COVID-19 by age are:
  • 0-19 years old death rate is .003% or .00003
  • 20-49 years old death rate is .02% or .0002
  • 50-69 years old death rate is .5%% or .005
  • 70 years old or older death rate is 5.4% or .054
Why do the numbers you posted below the CDC chart you used as the source not match the chart itself?
Your age groups are different (breaking at 19 and 69 vs 17 and 64), and the percentages are different (I'm getting 99.998, 99.95, 99.4, and 91 respectively).
And how did you get from those numbers to the 99.8% rate you previously stated?
 

boatgeek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
1,906
Under the heading of "No sense makes sense".
A young lady got her Covid vaccine shot today.
Encourages others to do the same.
Pic on Instagram.
Huge NEGATIVE pushback from her followers.
Unbelievable.
Ivanka Trump (@ivankatrump) • Instagram photos and videos
To paraphrase a popular book, live by the sword and you will die by the sword. I'm actually pretty surprised that she wasn't in the early round of vaccines given to White House staff in December.
 

Ez2cDave

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
4,538
Reaction score
1,356
Why do the numbers you posted below the CDC chart you used as the source not match the chart itself?
Your age groups are different (breaking at 19 and 69 vs 17 and 64), and the percentages are different (I'm getting 99.998, 99.95, 99.4, and 91 respectively).
And how did you get from those numbers to the 99.8% rate you previously stated?
Average those numbers ( supplied by you ) for all groups together and it is 97.6% survivable, across the spectrum, based on your numbers .

There are different numbers, quoted in other CDC articles, with a higher survival rate for older people . . . Remember these numbers will also vary, depending on the "R-naught" of the virus.

Either way, your claim of "orders of magnitude" is debunked.

Dave F.
 
Last edited:

CalebJ

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
700
Reaction score
476
I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this...
You just inexplicably backtracked from 99.8 to 97.6%. That's a factor of 12.

And you still haven't made any attempt whatsoever to explain the discrepancy between your numbers and where you claim to have sourced them.
 

Ez2cDave

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
4,538
Reaction score
1,356
There are different numbers, quoted in other CDC articles, with a higher survival rate for older people . . . Remember these numbers will also vary, depending on the "R-naught" of the virus.
I'm trying to get my head wrapped around this...You just inexplicably backtracked from 99.8 to 97.6%. That's a factor of 12.

And you still haven't made any attempt whatsoever to explain the discrepancy between your numbers and where you claim to have sourced them.
Caleb,

I will not be baited into a "pissing match" with you .

( 1 ) The CDC was the source for what I originally stated.

( 2 ) The CDC link I posted was not the one I originally read ( they have MANY different articles ).

( 3 ) My post was a "composite" of data, in addition the the CDC link ( you would have realized that, if you had looked at the CDC article in detail ).

( 4 ) I have not "backtracked", at all ( the "numbers" were averaged from the ones YOU supplied to reach 97.6% ) . . . Your 91% value "skewed" the survival % figure lower.

( 5 ) As I clearly stated, the IFR changes, as the R-naught of the virus changes.

Take this portion of the chart I previously posted . . .

1618540366216.png



Based on an "R-naught" of 2.0 ( from the chart above )

0-17 = 6 deaths per 1,000,000 cases ( .000006 = .0006 % ) . . . 99.9994 % survivable
18-49 = 150 deaths per 1,000,000 cases ( .00015 = .015 % ) . . . 99.985 % survivable
50-64 = 1,800 deaths per 1,000,000 cases ( .0018 = .18 % ) . . . 99.82 % survivable
65+ = 26,000 deaths per 1,000,000 cases ( .026 = 2.6 % ) . . . 97.40 % survivable
______________________
99.30 % survivable ( AVERAGE )


As I said before, the "IFR" varies, according to the "R-Naught" of the virus.

Dave F.
 

modeltrains

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
1,444
Reaction score
308
Found this, https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/13...-clots-and-covid-vaccines-and-see-some-clues/

Hmm, interesting,
Warkentin, the expert on heparin-induced thrombocytopenia, said that free DNA — that is, DNA not contained in the virus — could, if it were to be exposed to platelet factor 4, itself trigger the immune system to create antibodies against platelet factor 4. It’s not clear how that risk would differ between vaccines. While researchers try to figure out the biology behind the blood clots, doctors and people who need vaccines are left to balance the risks and benefits of the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines with incomplete information. While that might seem troubling, it’s also common, and, perhaps, the central quandary in medicine.
 

OverTheTop

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
5,141
Reaction score
2,426
Location
Melbourne Australia
My wife and my sister has the AstraZeneca jab recently. My sister felt spaced-out and not with it a day later, and my wife got body and joint aches on days 4 & 5. Both back to normal now.

I got my 2021 Fluvax today, but I am a long way away from getting the covid jab currently. Still about 4 million in front of me. Maybe before the end of the year, if I am lucky :( . The authorities here really couldn't organise getting a kick in a bar fight.
 
Top