Covid Vaccines

[Bowman]

Alas, the emphasis in the US is on S, not the U.

The "Ss" all want their freedom to govern as they wish, but when the poop hits the fan they suddenly demand the "U" bail them out.
The new "American" way.

 

[cwbullet]

That's not what CDC is recommending.

Group 1a:

• health care personnel //somewhat loosely defined, but less than 100% of the healthcare sector employees
• residents of long-term care facilities //note that this group is defined by residential density, not age

Group 1b:

• Frontline essential workers (fire fighters, police officers, corrections officers, food and agricultural workers, USPS workers, manufacturing workers, grocery store workers, public transit workers, and those who work in the educational sector (teachers, support staff, and daycare workers.))
• 75+ year olds //at highest risk of hospitalization, illness, and death from COVID-19. 75+ year olds who are also residents of long-term care facilities should be offered vaccination in Phase 1a.

Group 1c:

• 65—74 years olds
• 16—64 years with underlying medical conditions
• Other essential workers (transportation and logistics, food service, housing construction and finance, information technology, communications, energy, law, media, public safety, and public health).

When Vaccine is Limited, Who Gets Vaccinated First?

Learn more about the CDC’s recommendations for who should be offered COVID-19 vaccine first.

www.cdc.gov

For the 2nd part, we've got that figured out, more or less. With the exception of TX and MO.
For the former, the idea is to un-freeze as many parts of the economy as possible. And that is hard to do without allowing parents to ditch their kids in schools and kindergartens (teachers), and help folks get to work (transportation) and eat (agriculture, grocery stores).

I don't have a strong preference either way (our school district has figured out ways to stay open for in-person instruction), just reconciling the reality with logical patterns.
That would have been a lot easier if we had a National vaccine distribution standard and policy, instead of each of the 50 states spit-balling, improvising, and politicizing things as they see fit. Alas, the emphasis in the US is on S, not the U.

I think I may have confused you. We are already in 1b. 1a is long passed in my area.

 

[kuririn]

I think I may have confused you. We are already in 1b. 1a is long passed in my area.

Teachers are included in 1b.

 

[Buckeye]

I applaud MarcG for doing his part to fight this pandemic. And thank you for your input, Dr. Winslow.

This is not about Flyfalcons issuing medical advice, so no need for that snark. Marc_G gave very contradictory statements:

...I signed up within minutes...

...But I as a 53 year old work-at-home type would have gladly given my slot in line to a 30 year old teacher...

Maybe moot now, if Indiana teachers and any 50+ resident are now in the same priority class. At first reading, though, it sure sounded like Marc_G was not walking the talk.

 

[shockie]

I check out 6 different online websites every day looking for an appt now that KY is in Phase 1C....1 site only does phone appt Tues thru Thursday...I found a 1st shot appt available today at Krogers for March 11, but since there was no appt availability for the 2nd shot, they wouldn't allow me to make a 1st shot appt...WTH I had my barber tell me yesterday that the COVID-19 shot was the mark of the beast 666....I'm glad he's a good barber......

 

[Marc_G]

I think it's all good guys. I recognized that @Flyfalcons had a legitimate point.

My earlier note did allude to the fact that I didn't get the vaccine immediately:
Quote from earlier post:
(I'm 53- I signed up within minutes of the announcement that 50+ are now eligible--I get my first shot on 3/17, but could have signed up for a mass vaccination clinic this weekend if I had so chosen).

But I gave no context about why I delayed the appointment for two weeks, and my lengthy post probably put half our readership to sleep.

And today, 50+ and teachers are all eligible. I'm comfortable with the ethics of how I handled this.

The Indiana system is a bit cumbersome but anyone who is eligible and wants a shot can get one. In fact there are still openings for this weekend's mass vax clinics.

 

[kuririn]

What I'm hearing from these discussions seem contradictory. Terms like "Presidential decree" and "Politics from both sides" regarding the Presidents' recommendation that teachers be given priority for vaccinations. And yet the CDC recommendations place both seniors over 75 and educators in the same tier: 1b.
So the president is following the CDC guidelines. Explain to me how that could possibly be interpreted as political?

 

[kuririn]

This is not about Flyfalcons issuing medical advice,

When he says that one group should not be vaccinated before another then yes, it is.
Especially when medical experts say different.

 

[dr wogz]

The "Ss" all want their freedom to govern as they wish, but when the poop hits the fan they suddenly demand the "U" bail them out.
The new "American" way.

reminds me of being 19:
Move out, yet come 'home' for: laundry, dinners, borrow the car, make long distance calls, etc..

 

[Bowman]

When he says that one group should not be vaccinated before another then yes, it is.
Especially when medical experts say different.

Aren't there multiple factors driving who should go when?
Medical advice is one factor, defining who may be at greatest risk of adverse outcome from infection.
Isn't epidemiology a separate discipline, determining how best to eliminate or reduce spread, or at least assessing the statistical data to provide that recommendation.

The two are interrelated in that you want to, in the time you have, reduce the likelihood that the persons most at risk from infection get infected. It seems to be a balancing act between how fast can we mitigate the impact of infection with the vaccine, and reducing the criticality of the need to be inoculated.
The more spread, the greater the criticality.
We still don't have solid data on the vaccine's effectiveness at reducing spread, at least I haven't heard of it, maybe they do know.

 

[kuririn]

Aren't there multiple factors driving who should go when?

Agree 100%.
Hopefully the decision makers take a panoramic view, not just a narrow one.

 

[cwbullet]

Teachers are included in 1b.

good point.

 

[cwbullet]

Hell, I immunized over 1200 in on a 10-hour shift. I challenge to find someone else doing those kinds of numbers.

 

[cwbullet]

I do not want you to misinterpret any of my posts. I look at my father all those we have lost and feel guilty for anyone who gets a shot under 60.

 

[kuririn]

No worries Chuck, it's all good.
I'm a little miffed at the fact that at least one state is vaccinating people 50 and over while here seniors have to be 75 or over. On Monday that goes down to 70. And CDC recommends 65 and over.
Are some states getting more vaccine doses per capita than others?
Criminy.

 

[boatgeek]

No worries Chuck, it's all good.
I'm a little miffed at the fact that at least one state is vaccinating people 50 and over while here seniors have to be 75 or over. On Monday that goes down to 70. And CDC recommends 65 and over.
Are some states getting more vaccine doses per capita than others?
Criminy.

I suspect that one factor is whether states try to finish one group before going on to the next because there’s so much political pressure to go on to the next phase. It seems like some states are starting the next phase/sub phase before they’re even 50% done with the last one.

 

[cwbullet]

No worries Chuck, it's all good.
I'm a little miffed at the fact that at least one state is vaccinating people 50 and over while here seniors have to be 75 or over. On Monday that goes down to 70. And CDC recommends 65 and over.
Are some states getting more vaccine doses per capita than others?
Criminy.

Thank you. It is hard to not be biased.

 

[Marc_G]

No worries Chuck, it's all good.
I'm a little miffed at the fact that at least one state is vaccinating people 50 and over while here seniors have to be 75 or over. On Monday that goes down to 70. And CDC recommends 65 and over.
Are some states getting more vaccine doses per capita than others?
Criminy.

I suspect that one factor is whether states try to finish one group before going on to the next because there’s so much political pressure to go on to the next phase. It seems like some states are starting the next phase/sub phase before they’re even 50% done with the last one.

Thank you. It is hard to not be biased.

Well, a big factor is how many people per capita volunteer to get the vaccine when available. Some states have lower adoption than others, driving more doses to be available per capita for those who want it. Hence, some states open it up to younger folks earlier because an unfortunate percentage of older folks pass on the shot.

 

[cwbullet]

Well, a big factor is how many people per capita volunteer to get the vaccine when available. Some states have lower adoption than others, driving more doses to be available per capita for those who want it. Hence, some states open it up to younger folks earlier because an unfortunate percentage of older folks pass on the shot.

I do not entirely disagree with that,.

 

[UPscaler]

How are people, with medical training and experience, "bad apples", when they make a personal medical decision, based on their qualifications ?

Excerpt from the article :

"A recent survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that 29% of healthcare workers were “vaccine hesitant,” a figure slightly higher than the percentage of the general population, 27%."

End excerpt :

Dave F.

An RN that works with my mom was entirely convinced COVID was a hoax to begin with and would be fully "cured and gone" within a few days after the election.

A medical degree or medical training does not come with common sense.

Braden

 

[dr wogz]

My dad & his wife (step mum of 30+ years!) got shot yesterday !

Er, got the shot yesterday. first dose. their 2nd dose is due in June..

He is over 80, she is just under 80, but is considered "his care giver" Quebec is currently doing the 80 and over group. I believe health care workers are already shot.. got the shot. Teachers are still 'up in the air'. My wife & I expect to be shot in June or July..


There have been some hi-profile resignations in the news too.. Seems some CEOs & execs 'lined up & got their families lined up' for a shot while healthcare workers (mainly at senior residences) were getting theirs. Essentially jumping the queue..

 

[BABAR]

The "Ss" all want their freedom to govern as they wish, but when the poop hits the fan they suddenly demand the "U" bail them out.
The new "American" way.

Good point. Of course, your assumption is that the U is more likely to have the correct answer than the S. That’s all good when you personally agree with the U. If you don’t.........then the U is a pain in the S.

given the U has had drastically changing opinions over the time of this plague (some due to changes in political control, but some not), no matter which side of the aisle you are on, the U clearly does NOT always get it right either. Whether the U gets it right MORE OFTEN than the S is clearly a matter of debate, but not only beyond the scope of this thread but likely also outside the boundaries allowed by the excellent and under appreciated moderators of this forum!

I got to the front of the line because I was tier 1a. Selfishly however, I am wanting my family members to get the shot as soon as they possibly can, no matter what their ages, and I’ve told them if someone offers them the shot, darn well go git it, no matter what the “experts” say. Sometimes love overrules reason. Not saying it’s right.

 

[kuririn]

Here's a lesson in ethics and morality. The CEO of Pfizer cancelled a trip to Israel because he refused to cut the line back in December and is not yet fully vaccinated against Covid.
Pfizer's CEO has reportedly postponed an Israel trip because he's not fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and refuses to 'cut the line' (msn.com)

 

[Peartree]

I do not want you to misinterpret any of my posts. I look at my father all those we have lost and feel guilty for anyone who gets a shot under 60.

I understand that. On the other hand, I (being only 56) got a phone call yesterday that the vaccine clinic at our local high school had some Moderna vaccines "leftover" that had already been thawed and needed to be used. Apparently, whomever was supposed to attend did not, or not as many as expected came, or something. In any case, they said that if I could get there RIGHT NOW I could get the vaccine. I wasn't going to refuse and I was there within the next five or ten minutes, got shot #1, and have an appointment for shot #2 in a month.

 

[cwbullet]

I understand that. On the other hand, I (being only 56) got a phone call yesterday that the vaccine clinic at our local high school had some Moderna vaccines "leftover" that had already been thawed and needed to be used. Apparently, whomever was supposed to attend did not, or not as many as expected came, or something. In any case, they said that if I could get there RIGHT NOW I could get the vaccine. I wasn't going to refuse and I was there within the next five or ten minutes, got shot #1, and have an appointment for shot #2 in a month.

We have had that issue with a handful. Ou biggest problem is thawed vaccine and not shows.

 

[modeltrains]

The skepticism has grown into hysteria.

Through several decades of observation of the neurotypical (meaning not autistic like me) portion of humanity I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain percentage of humanity which falls in to a state of blind panic at the lack of value, meaning, and purpose, in their lives when they are deprived of anything about which to be hysterical.

 

[RocketDestroyer]

My father put it more bluntly. "Some people aren't happy unless they are bitching."

Through several decades of observation of the neurotypical (meaning not autistic like me) portion of humanity I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain percentage of humanity which falls in to a state of blind panic at the lack of value, meaning, and purpose, in their lives when they are deprived of anything about which to be hysterical.

 

[BABAR]

From New England Journal of Medicine regarding vaccinating people who have already HAD Covid. Small study with interesting result. The question is NOT do people who have had Covid already still NEED the vaccines but do they NEED two doses of vaccine (for the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines)

as I interpret it, people who have already had Covid (pre-infected people), they get a HUGE RESPONSE (10-45 X) from the first dose compared to people with no previous exposure or immunity. These same pre-infected got NO additional response to the second dose, while those without hadn’t had Covid before DID get an additional “boost”
(3x) from the second dose. Because of the huge initial response, the pre-infected people in the end were still ahead of the non-preinfected people in terms of immunity.

so the interpretation suggests that for those with documented previous infection, they may only need ONE dose of a Pfizer or Moderna, and with just one dose they will still come out ahead of nonpreviously infected people with two doses.

if verified, would allow countries to safely stretch existing and newly produced amount of vaccine, as well as reduce some of the logistic support. Might also increase compliance/acceptance for those who have recovered from the virus (“hey, it’s only one shot!”), especially for those that have already had it and think, “Hey, I’ve already had it and I’m immune.” Apparently the Brazilian variant may be commonly infecting (re-infecting?) those that had the original strain.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667

 

[JLP1]

Down here in Texas we start tier 1C sometime this week. Our 1C is 50+ year olds, 16+ with health issues, and teachers are in there somewhere. Ever since the vaccine programs started here in Houston it's been hard to get a shot. There are large areas that still have not received a single dose. Some of our leaders have been redirecting large amounts of the shots to certain communities and zip codes in the name of social justice. About 2 months ago the health officials started running PSA's telling everybody to sign up where they could and if offered get the shot. Some folks are on at least a half dozen wait list just waiting for a call or text telling them they have appointments. One county came out Tuesday and said there is now to much "vaccine shopping" and that they were deleting their wait list and starting over. If you live in that county and still need a shot you have to sign up all over again. One major hospital CEO was busted for providing shots to well heeled folks and their families who were flying in from other countries. Some of them were paying as much as $30K for the shots. Some folks are not having any issues what so ever and we are now waiting for our second shot. A perfect storm in the form of the Texas crap shoot.

 

[Marc_G]

@JLP1 's experience underscores the cluster that vaccine management at the state level is.

Feds should have prepared templates for states to adopt where people sign up one time and one place, say where they live and how far they will travel, and are then assigned a place in line that is equably managed, with notification when they are assigned an appointment and reminders leading up to the actual date.

We had all summer and fall to develop this; it's a national disgrace that it doesn't exist. At this point it's probably too late but should be developed anyway. We will need it next time...