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Correct Storage of Epoxy and Pumps?

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Scott Evil

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What's the best way to store West Sytems type epoxy sets + attached pumps sets between usage?

The reason I ask is I have about a 33% quart of Pro Line that I neglected to throw a zip lock bag over the last time I used it (Jan10). The resin is like thick gritty sugar crystaled old honey now.

I'm not sure yet if the remainder of the can is trashed or just the pump and what's in it.

The hardener seems to have survived the same type of abuse though.

Anybody have some tips for month+ gaps in epoxy usage before I crack open another set and pumps?

Thnx, Scott
 

sandman

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What's the best way to store West Sytems type epoxy sets + attached pumps sets between usage?

The reason I ask is I have about a 33% quart of Pro Line that I neglected to throw a zip lock bag over the last time I used it (Jan10). The resin is like thick gritty sugar crystaled old honey now.

I'm not sure yet if the remainder of the can is trashed or just the pump and what's in it.

The hardener seems to have survived the same type of abuse though.

Anybody have some tips for month+ gaps in epoxy usage before I crack open another set and pumps?

Thnx, Scott
It's not trash.

Just warm it up and the crystals will go away.

You will have to clean the pumps. A real PIA! I know!

If it's discolored (usually the hardener does that) don't worry about that. It's just moisture and that will now effect the epoxy strength. It's just cosmetic.

Keep it from freezing and that won't happen again.
 

Scott Evil

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Thanks Sandman,

There is no discoloration in the resin outside of a current milky appearance. It's very possible that it has seen episodes of sub 32F temps. The room has been 50+F now for at least a week. Now that I think of it, I believe I did keep it inside for a couple days before I used it last.

So, this stuff doesn't "foul" from out gassing or humidity variations?
 

sandman

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Thanks Sandman,

There is no discoloration in the resin outside of a current milky appearance. It's very possible that it has seen episodes of sub 32F temps. The room has been 50+F now for at least a week. Now that I think of it, I believe I did keep it inside for a couple days before I used it last.

So, this stuff doesn't "foul" from out gassing or humidity variations?
No fouling there. Acording to West Systems the epoxy is fine. It has a really really long shelf life.

It doesn't have to be below freezing to crystalize. Low temps will do it.

Like I said no big deal except for cleaning the pumps.
 

troj

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Yep, West Systems lasts forever. I have some I bought at least five years ago that's still quite usable. The hardener is dark, but it still works just fine.

Some epoxies, though, do have a shelf life. Fibreglast System 2000 resin oxidizes.

-Kevin
 

Scott Evil

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I meant Pro Line 4100 BTW, I used West Systems as an example as I am assuming they are basically the same chemically (maybe my bad?)

Anyways, I'm still having some major issues getting my epoxy working. I'm really motivated to get some tubes glassed and CIII: DarkStar on its way.

Sunday 7am, a gallon of sealed resin opened to find the same crystalized mess as I had with my quart size.

New gallon of resin stored in 70~100 F environment in upper level of my furnace room (with multiple shaking and mixing attempts on my end in the last 40 or so hours).

Now Tuesday morning. I haven't jammed a thermocouple down into it but it's gotta be 75~80F by now. Still a 1~2" layer of B.S. at the bottom of the gallon can. (like somebody dumped 2~3 cups of sugar into my fancy $100 can of of epoxy)

Anybody familiar with upper mid-west winter resin storage know how to un-**** this situation so I can get going again?

Honestly, this one caught me by surprise, I figured this stuff would be usable again by today.

Thnx for ANY info,

Scott
 

troj

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I meant Pro Line 4100 BTW, I used West Systems as an example as I am assuming they are basically the same chemically (maybe my bad?)
Unless Pro Line is relabeled West Systems, they are likely different enough to be relevant.

New gallon of resin stored in 70~100 F environment in upper level of my furnace room (with multiple shaking and mixing attempts on my end in the last 40 or so hours).
Set the can in a pan of warm (~105F) water for a while.

Depending on the Tg of the epoxy, you can go warmer. Tg on West Systems is only 120, so I wouldn't heat it above 105. I've never used Pro Line, so I don't know its properties.

-Kevin
 

ONAWHIM

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Scott,

Is Bonded the parent company of your Pro Line epoxy?
I did a search and found this site with a Proline epoxy, one word "Proline".

http://www.bondedmaterials.com/

I was trying to find the MSDS or other info so the brainiacs on this forum (not me) may advise further.

Good luck.

Wm.
 

Scott Evil

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Ah! Finally!

A couple hours in a sink full of hot water we're primed and ready to go.

Thanks for the advice all!
 

blackjack2564

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By the way both West and Proline Hardener will clean up with warm water. Just put pump in pan full of warm water and pump away.

Resin needs to be cleaned up with denatured alcohol, but in a pinch rubbing will do!
 

Scott Evil

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By the way both West and Proline Hardener will clean up with warm water. Just put pump in pan full of warm water and pump away.

Resin needs to be cleaned up with denatured alcohol, but in a pinch rubbing will do!
Thanks Jim, that's good to know. I tried blasting my "sugared up" resin pump with some high purity isopropanol (heat) as a solvent but it hardly touched it. I wrapped it in foil for now and popped a new pump in for my recovered resin can.

So, same prescription to clean the resin pump but use Everclear instead of warm water?
 

Reed Goodwin

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I'm glad I saw this. I too got some Proline epoxy but the resin was all crystallized. It likely got pretty cold during shipment, but it's been warm now for a while, being stored in a ~70 degF room. I guess I need to let it sit in warm water for a while, huh? Thanks!
Reed
 

dnl2

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Can proline epoxy be stored for long periods of time ( months ) with the pumps

in the cans? Or will the resin and hardener thicken in the pumps? Should the

caps be put back on the cans and clean the pumps? From what I read earlier

the answer sounds like clean the pumps and cap the cans.

Also using epoxy in my basement doesn't sound like a great idea. Should you build in a better ventilated space?

I was planning on building a couple wildman kits over the winter. Building in the garage would be an option, but would the epoxy cure right in the low temperatures?
 
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blackjack2564

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I have stored my epoxy with the pumps in cans for years with no ill effects.
I do however keep them in the house away from wild temperature swings, which are the root cause of all evil.

Only time I clean the pumps is when they begin to malfunction due to crud build up. This has only been 2x in 7 years.

If i have not used them for several months I will pump into a cup for awhile to get rid of air in the line, then pour the resin or hardener back into the can.
 
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dnl2

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Any thoughts on using epoxy in your basement? I think that your mixing such small amounts at one time that there can't be much for fumes to inhale. (7 and 9 year old kids in the house.)
 

troj

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Any thoughts on using epoxy in your basement? I think that your mixing such small amounts at one time that there can't be much for fumes to inhale. (7 and 9 year old kids in the house.)
I do it in the house all the time. Nobody in my house has any sensitivity to it, which is what's important.

Keep an eye on everyone, not just the kids -- watch for any sort of reaction. If you're doing small batches, it's likely not an issue. But go slow, and watch for reactions.

No different than introducing your kids to new foods when they're little.

-Kevin
 

dnl2

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When using chopped carbon fiber is it necessary to chop up the carbon more than how it is out of the package?

Does it flow out of small 10mm syringe okay?
 

blackjack2564

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When using chopped carbon fiber is it necessary to chop up the carbon more than how it is out of the package?

Does it flow out of small 10mm syringe okay?
Depends on what epoxy you are using....yes for West or similar...no for Hobby types. That must be thinned a tad.

Assuming that the strands are 1/4 or close....no ...they will be fine.

Yes is should flow just fine, if your syringe has a tiny hole, just cut off the tip, to enlarge it.
As long as you can get the syringe in a hole of 3/16 or 1/4 you drilled in the airframe, you're fine.

I trim syringes all the time as there does not appear to be a standard size.
You're building a rocket..... make it fit/work!

Notice in the pics one syringe worked as it came the other I had to trim to get larger hole, cut that one at a 45.

The biggest mistake made by beginners is trying to use too much. Pile the size of dime is all that's needed for 10ml

100_3313.jpg


100_3316.jpg


100_3318.jpg
 
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edwinshap1

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impregnating epoxy w/CF strengthens it, or just for certain applications?
 

blackjack2564

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impregnating epoxy w/CF strengthens it, or just for certain applications?
Yes it does, BUT is that what applies to the specific use? or is there something better? Carbon is not always the best answer.
Like most other things, it depends on the application.

Think of it like re-bar in concrete. Not needed in a driveway, or local streets, but is used on super highways to prevent road damage from heavy truck traffic.

Most epoxies have more than enough shear strength for normal applications.
But when flying heavier, high performance rockets it can be a life saver.

In smaller, lighter rockets, you are served just as well, to use fiberglass strips or tip to tip.

Many fillers such as West 406, can increase adhesive strength by adding to fillets, and sand MUCH better than carbon fiber. I only use it internally[carbon] where it doesn't matter cosmetically. However many others use it externally as well.
You will get many opinions on these issues, filter through them and decide for yourself. OR DO THE RESEARCH like I did.
Go to websites like this one for complete tutorials and material strengths information. Surf around a bit, a true wealth of information.
Almost all makers of glass and epoxies do this.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/use-guides/

I use the information from sources like this, hopefully it may help you also. I

It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish, save weight, mach-busting, super strength. etc.

There are always trade offs for everything you do when building. You must decide what suits your interests best.

Here is a great report on heat effects on epoxy that dispels many myths about needed strength.

Search a little, you can find tons of RELIABLE information.

Picture 2.jpg


Picture 5.jpg


View attachment heat effects on epoxy copy.pdf
 
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