Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

[Flyfalcons]

Same here. Unbelievable. Being educated in other areas makes them think they are qualified to have a meaningful and realistic opinion about the danger of getting vaccinated.

What abose those being educated in health care who are holding off?

 

[cwbullet]

What abose those being educated in health care who are holding off?

It is a free country and you can't fix stupid.

 

[ksaves2]

It is a free country and you can't fix stupid.

Ditto,

I have a sister-in-law in healthcare who says she's not going to get it. I've talked to her till I'm blue in my face and she won't change her tune.
I'm last on the list though I'm close, I'm only 64. I retired from practicing primary care medicine last July so am considered a civilian now.
I can hole up at home and where I'm geographically located still feel comfortable going out in an N95 mask to go shopping. I squirreled away some masks before I left! Give the vaccines to people who have more exposure than me. I'm done with practicing and can remain "hiding".
As soon as any of the vaccines open up for me, I and my 26 year old son (autistic spectrum but doing great) are going to get it. He doesn't mind wearing a mask when we go to the library to pick out DVD's and doesn't mind being "poked" for blood or shots.
Kurt

 

[cwbullet]

One of my

Ditto,

I have a sister-in-law in healthcare who says she's not going to get it. I've talked to her till I'm blue in my face and she won't change her tune.
I'm last on the list though I'm close, I'm only 64. I retired from practicing primary care medicine last July so am considered a civilian now.
I can hole up at home and where I'm geographically located still feel comfortable going out in an N95 mask to go shopping. I squirreled away some masks before I left! Give the vaccines to people who have more exposure than me. I'm done with practicing and can remain "hiding".
As soon as any of the vaccines open up for me, I and my 26 year old son (autistic spectrum but doing great) are going to get it. He doesn't mind wearing a mask when we go to the library to pick out DVD's and doesn't mind being "poked" for blood or shots.
Kurt

One of my coworkers is the same way. I just keep offering. I am not overdoing but I feel like I must try. I finally got her to quit smoking this year. One item at a time.

 

[NOLA_BAR]

Just got first dose of Moderna today through Walmart’s no waste vaccine list. If you are looking for a vaccine and not in a eligible group, I recommend getting on the list.

 

[ksaves2]

I live in forgottenonia and the Walmart here doesn't have it yet.
Kurt

 

[NOLA_BAR]

I live in forgottenonia and the Walmart here doesn't have it yet.
Kurt

Hopefully it becomes available to you soon. We have a pretty good coverage of Walmart stores. I can get to at least 3 fairly quickly. They call you at the end of the day if there are unused dose and you need to get there before they close the pharmacy. It keeps a vaccine dose from going in the trash.

 

[cwbullet]

We have a lot of no-shows. One of my teams immunized over 1250 in 8 hours. Over 100 were on a call list and got the vaccine because it would have not lasted until the next day. The original recipient failed to show. Not bringing religion into it, but I would think it is more of a sin to waste vaccines than to violate the immunization schema.

 

[NOLA_BAR]

My understanding is the list is still prioritized based on state requirements. A lot of those people have already got their dose or have appointments. They then move down the list based on what the state says will be the next tier of eligible people by age. I guess the final criteria is "can you get here in 20 minutes"!

With case counts lower and hopefully vaccines ramping up this is a window of opportunity to prevent another surge. I fully expect all of us will be getting a third booster shot before the end of the year.

 

[Marc_G]

Chuck, do you have a reference that will help with this:

I try to combat vaccine skepticism on my local social media, not to change minds of the skeptics but to reduce the number of readers that may find their arguments credible. There's a running argument on nextdoor related to potential school re-fully-opening with a skeptic who keeps saying the vaccines won't help reduce the spread of COVID because "vaccinated people can still get infected and spread the virus."

Of course I counter with A) Vaccinated people are less likely to get seriously ill or die, and B) While not 100% immune to the virus, those vaccinated are less likely to host an infection that would be spreadable and the window during which they may be infectious is much smaller than in non-vaccinated folks, just like happens with the flu vaccine: people can still get the same strain they are vaccinated against, just less of a case and less spread due to less severe infection.

While we wait for solid data about this for COVID-19, I'm looking for a reference on reduction in spread by people who got flu vaccinated but still got some level of infection, as a comparable respiratory virus with a lot of data around such things. I've googled but not found something really on-point. Do you know of a good reference? I know I've seen one before but didn't save the link.

 

[Jmhepworth]

Here’s something from a professor at my alma mater. https://news.byu.edu/intellect/q-a-with-byu-professor-addresses-covid-19-vaccine-misconceptions

 

[Marc_G]

Here’s something from a professor at my alma mater. https://news.byu.edu/intellect/q-a-with-byu-professor-addresses-covid-19-vaccine-misconceptions

That's a good link. It doesn't specifically get to the point I'm making about "infection and spread still possible but reduced" I'm trying to make but this link is going into my list of good articles. Thanks again!

 

[Cl(VII)]

That's a good link. It doesn't specifically get to the point I'm making about "infection and spread still possible but reduced" I'm trying to make but this link is going into my list of good articles. Thanks again!

A lot of data regarding this coming from Israel, this was released just this morning: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210311005482/en/

Punchline for your question: "Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections"

There is no reason to believe that Moderna shot isn't comparable (same underlying technology, similar efficacy against symptomatic disease, and similar amounts of clearing antibody induction), but I'm unaware of data that is this directly on point. J and J would be more of a question, but I suspect it would trend this way also, but again I'm unaware of specific data regarding this.

 

[kuririn]

While we wait for solid data about this for COVID-19, I'm looking for a reference on reduction in spread by people who got flu vaccinated but still got some level of infection, as a comparable respiratory virus with a lot of data around such things. I've googled but not found something really on-point. Do you know of a good reference? I know I've seen one before but didn't save the link.

As I understand it, the pharmaceutical companies have to take a "best guess" at what strains of the flu will be prevalent in the upcoming season prior to manufacturing each years' vaccine. So the effectiveness can vary wildly depending on how accurate their guess is.
CDC Seasonal Flu Vaccine Effectiveness Studies | CDC
Note the effectiveness of the flu vaccine for the 2014-15 season.

While not a study with hard numbers, here's a link where two epidemiologists discuss infectiousness after getting vaccinated:
Even After Getting Vaccinated, You Could Still Infect Others | FiveThirtyEight

Excerpt:
We also have at least one example of a vaccine that can end up protecting the vaccinated person more than the community at large, Parikh told me. The flu vaccines are notoriously imperfect in how well they protect against infection, as effectiveness rates fluctuate but tend to be between 40 and 60 percent. That’s better than nothing for the people who get them — especially because we know that, even if you do get sick, having had the vaccine can result in a less severe illness. But, Parikh said, that means that person — vaccinated, less susceptible, and less sick than they otherwise would have been — can still spread influenza around the community.

Excerpt:
The Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines have, after all, turned out to be much more effective than those tricky flu vaccines. “If you have a vaccine that’s 95 percent effective at reducing symptoms, there is no universe in which it wouldn’t also reduce the likelihood of transmission. It’s just not possible,” he said. “So we’re not talking about whether it reduces transmission or not, we just want to get an extent as to how much.”

So bottom line the flu vaccines can allow transmission by inoculated people who are subsequently infected but are also less effective than the Covid vaccines. So we'll have to wait and see what the studies being conducted now say in a few months.

 

[NateB]

@Marc_G I have the same dilemma and usually just choose not to engage with that conversation online because it is too hard for me to explain in a tiny bite of text and people typically ignore it or reply "why doesn't the news today that then?"

People need to understand that vaccines are not a barrier that prevents a virus or other pathogen from entering the body and making you ill. A vaccine serves as a way to train your own immune system to recognize and destroy those pathogens when they enter your body. Vaccines speed up the process, but someone can still get sick while their body is fighting the infection off. In these cases, the symptoms are usually more mild because the body starts destroying the virus cells earlier and it has less time to replicate and cause more damage.

Think about this a step further and if fewer viral cells are replicating inside a host due to a more mild infection, fewer are being spread to the next person. This is why vaccines are extremely important, but not the only step in preventing disease spread.

 

[BABAR]

I was suspecting that a significant portion of those choosing to forgo the vaccination might be this that have already HAD active Covid infection, and now figure they are immune anyway.

but no one knows for sure the length of naturally acquired immunity for sure, and apparently the Brazilian Strain is actively reinfecting those that have already had the original strain.

small study from New England Journal of Medicine may encourage those in this group. Suggests not only does the shot work well on those already infected (gives them much better immunity than those not previously infected) but they may only need one shot instead of two (in fact, may get no benefit from the second dose, NOT true for previously uninfected people who get a 3x boost from second shot.)

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2101667
sorry you got sick, @cwbullet , only bright side is that now you may be “super protected.”

 

[Marc_G]

@Marc_G I have the same dilemma and usually just choose not to engage with that conversation online because it is too hard for me to explain in a tiny bite of text and people typically ignore it or reply "why doesn't the news today that then?"

People need to understand that vaccines are not a barrier that prevents a virus or other pathogen from entering the body and making you ill. A vaccine serves as a way to train your own immune system to recognize and destroy those pathogens when they enter your body. Vaccines speed up the process, but someone can still get sick while their body is fighting the infection off. In these cases, the symptoms are usually more mild because the body starts destroying the virus cells earlier and it has less time to replicate and cause more damage.

Think about this a step further and if fewer viral cells are replicating inside a host due to a more mild infection, fewer are being spread to the next person. This is why vaccines are extremely important, but not the only step in preventing disease spread.

This is an excellent summary; better than the one I posted locally. Thank you. If only I could find that reference with % spread reduction in flu vaccinated folks that also showed spread window shrinking.

The person I'm semi-arguing with seems to think "regular" vaccines don't allow for infection and spread and that the Covid vaccines are defective in that they do allow some infection and spread. So why bother wait to open schools etc until people are vaccinated? Yes, she's a Q nutter so there is no reasoning with her. But I put good info out there to combat her irrationality.

 

[NateB]

The person I'm semi-arguing with seems to think "regular" vaccines don't allow for infection and spread and that the Covid vaccines are defective in that they do allow some infection and spread.

I'm sure they are thinking about Polio, Measles, and Smallpox which were almost eradicated thanks to vaccines. If very few people are carrying them around any more, you're unlikely to get them. Of course, we have seen the Measles outbreaks returning thanks to the anti-vax crowd.

Like you noted, Influenza is tricky. So many different stains and mutations makes vaccination more difficult. Even then, the body recognizes a flu that is similar to one it has been vaccinated for, and the process to create antibodies and fight it is still sped up.

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Georgia just expanded the allowed list to include me. What is the best way to get on the list? Call my PCP?

 

[kuririn]

Georgia just expanded the allowed list to include me. What is the best way to get on the list? Call my PCP?

COVID Vaccine | Georgia Department of Public Health

 

[kuririn]

BTW just read that Krogers accidentally vaccinated a number of people with empty syringes. At first they said it was syringes filled with a saline solution, then they changed the story.
WTF?
The person giving the shot can see if it's empty right?
Maybe they should stick to groceries.

 

[Marc_G]

Makes me glad I arranged my shot next week at a hospital.

 

[Peartree]

I'm sure they are thinking about Polio, Measles, and Smallpox which were almost eradicated thanks to vaccines. If very few people are carrying them around any more, you're unlikely to get them. Of course, we have seen the Measles outbreaks returning thanks to the anti-vax crowd.

I was also thinking that, some other diseases with which we are already familiar (possibly some of those you noted), the time that it takes to become transmissible, and the time that it takes to show symptoms is different than it is for COVID-19. In some cases (I would imagine) a rapid immune response from a vaccinated person may be able to fight off the virus before the infected person exhibited symptoms or the virus was significantly transmissible. COVID, as we know, can be transmitted to others before you are even aware that you have it. Does that sound right?

 

[NOLA_BAR]

BTW just read that Krogers accidentally vaccinated a number of people with empty syringes. At first they said it was syringes filled with a saline solution, then they changed the story.
WTF?
The person giving the shot can see if it's empty right?
Maybe they should stick to groceries.

What the heck did they inject? Air?? I felt pretty bad this morning, but just a sore arm now. Hopefully that means I actually got something.

 

[kuririn]

What the heck did they inject? Air?? I felt pretty bad this morning, but just a sore arm now. Hopefully that means I actually got something.

A Kroger clinic in Virginia accidentally gave customers empty shots instead of Covid-19 vaccines - CNN

I've heard about stretching the supply but this is overdoing it.

 

[Marc_G]

Talk about running on fumes...

But seriously, not funny

 

[Sandy H.]

I have a co-worker who I would have assumed would be completely on-board, but apparently isn't planning to get it. He said he's read a lot about it and doesn't think blah-blah-blah-blah. I don't actually know what he said, as I'm hearing this second hand, but I plan to talk to him next week and ask him to explain and show me what he's seen. It won't change my mind at all about getting the vaccine, as I am going to do it for sure, but I'm curious what swayed him and figure reading that might help me to debunk the information he has. Having said that, he does have a new baby and his wife might be a logical person to not get it due to that fact, but I don't think that would affect him at all, if my meaning is clear.

We'll see. I hope his info comes from traceable sources and not a Facebook group or other crowd sourced opinion source. (In all fairness, a rocketry forum is not likely the first place most people would go to look for vaccine info, but Chuck is obviously qualified and many people here post references for verification, so that gets a pass for sure.).

Sandy.

 

[rocketsaway]

My J&J vaccine appointment is this Sunday.
Considering I was first notified about this initiative on Feb 27th, that was fast.
From what I understand, this is a PA DoH big push for all school employees. Perhaps, from Biden's campaign to open schools ?
btw-Im a school bus driver. Grades K-6.
Im wondering how many of us, will call in sick the day or two after vaccination ? uh-oh...

 

[jd2cylman]

My J&J vaccine appointment is this Sunday.
Considering I was first notified about this initiative on Feb 27th, that was fast.
From what I understand, this is a PA DoH big push for all school employees. Perhaps, from Biden's campaign to open schools ?
btw-Im a school bus driver. Grades K-6.
Im wondering how many of us, will call in sick the day or two after vaccination ? uh-oh...

My coworker's son's school had 120 teachers call in sick today after receiving their second dose of (Moderna I think) vaccine. They had to close the school for the day.

 

[NateB]

Im wondering how many of us, will call in sick the day or two after vaccination ? uh-oh...

We were told to schedule our vaccines on our set of days off. I could have worked after mine, but a couple of my coworkers ended up laying in bed for a day after theirs.