Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

[dcastle]

So here's a good practical question (sorry if it's come up before; I have not read every page but I have read a lot of them). One of my other hobbies is candlepin bowling, our New England version of bowling, which we refer to as REAL bowling up here. Look it up and give it a try when up here sometime, it's a blast. I was in the semi-pro tour this year and it was a blast even though I didn't place too well in the standings. Anyway, my COVID related question :

One of the guys I bowl with on Wednesday and Friday nights tested positive this past Friday after developing mild symptoms on Thursday (runny nose, fever) and being informed that someone at his workplace had been infected. I saw him Wednesday night before he had his test. We and the other teammates were together for a couple hours at the lanes, which is practicing social distancing protocols including spacing out bowlers (leaving open lanes between matches), etc. I couldn't say for sure that I was within 6 feet for more than 15 minutes at a time but it's a good possibility; all of us did wear masks at all times. Most of the time in between our turns (5 frames per turn) we were at separate tables. My questions are 1) should I be self quarantining? (I have been staying home since finding out on Friday) If so, for how long? 2) Should I be concerned? I have moderately severe asthma and diabetes that is poorly controlled. So far as of today no symptoms other than a mild runny nose that comes and goes and just as well could be allergy related. No fever etc.

Thanks.

 

[OverTheTop]

Here is some good news for you. Following a three month lockdown we have defeated our second wave in the State of Victoria. Things are opening up and life getting back to normal. We peaked at 725 cases per day and 31 deaths. We have had 19 "double donut" days in a row now. No new cases or deaths.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Chuck, do other countries have a stake in Pfizer & Moderna vaccines?

 

[afadeev]

[....]I am not so sure the <mask> mandate without passage of law will be effective or constitutional.
To be effective and legal, any order to mandate masking must be well thought out, credible, and have science behind it.

Not picking on you, Chuck, but I figured it worthwhile to revisit the argument of whether or not nationwide (or state) mask mandates are legally sound.

Details provided in two articles referenced below, but in short, Public Health Service Act has a provision that grants the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) authority to issue regulations "to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or possession."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/mask-mandate-fact-check/index.html
https://theconversation.com/the-constitution-doesnt-have-a-problem-with-mask-mandates-142335
These laws can, and likely will be, challenged in courts.
There are legal precedents dating back to the 1905 small-pox outbreak and 1918-1919 flu pandemic, that grant broad rights to a "community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members".
The breadth of those permitted protections extend far beyond mask wearing, and include forced quarantining and mandatory vaccinations.

As another legal ruling reads (w.r.t. smallpox vaccination law in Cambridge, Massachusetts):
“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members.”

Cheers,

 

[cwbullet]

Chuck, do other countries have a stake in Pfizer & Moderna vaccines?

I think I remember something about Pfizer being with Germany. Many of our vaccines have some degree of cooperation.

 

[cwbullet]

Not picking on you, Chuck, but I figured it worthwhile to revisit the argument of whether or not nationwide (or state) mask mandates are legally sound.

Details provided in two articles referenced below, but in short, Public Health Service Act has a provision that grants the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) authority to issue regulations "to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the States or possessions, or from one State or possession into any other State or possession."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/01/politics/mask-mandate-fact-check/index.html
https://theconversation.com/the-constitution-doesnt-have-a-problem-with-mask-mandates-142335
These laws can, and likely will be, challenged in courts.
There are legal precedents dating back to the 1905 small-pox outbreak and 1918-1919 flu pandemic, that grant broad rights to a "community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members".
The breadth of those permitted protections extend far beyond mask wearing, and include forced quarantining and mandatory vaccinations.

As another legal ruling reads (w.r.t. smallpox vaccination law in Cambridge, Massachusetts):
“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good. On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members.”

Cheers,

I think that depends on how it is implemented. If it makes sense and is implemented as a risk reduction, you might be right. A mask mandate that states if you step outside your home, you must be wearing a mask might not. What we know today is that 6 feet of distancing or more and you are at minimal to no risk. The restriction must make sense if it is going to hinder someone's rights. For example, you can mandate that the drive cannot use a cell phone while driving, but you cannot legally say it is illegal to use a cell phone in an automobile.

Using a cell phone while driving is a risk to other drivers. The passenger using one is probably not.

A lot of things were illegal 100 years ago but are no longer used as precedence. Let the court battle play out.

 

[NateB]

I think I remember something about Pfizer being with Germany. Many of our vaccines have some degree of cooperation.

I remember reading that either a part of the vaccine was developed by a German company or Pfizer expanded on their prior research to develop their product.

I think this whole disease has shown what can happen with the international community works together towards a common goal. Maybe we can learn from this and cooperate on other needs too.

 

[jsdemar]

"What defines an efficacious COVID-19 vaccine? A review of the challenges assessing the clinical efficacy of vaccines against SARS-CoV-2"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30773-8/fulltext

Some points made in the article:

• A vaccine could cause faster mutation of the virus
• A vaccine could cause respiratory disease without exposure to the virus
• A vaccine could cause prolonged shedding of the virus
• Controlled human infection model (CHIM) studies aren't being done?
  • Only inferring statistical possible exposure in the trail study volunteers

From the Conclusion:
Assessment of the efficacy of a vaccine is complex for many diseases but particularly so in the case of SARS-CoV-2, where the fundamental understanding of the pathogen is evolving.

 

[cwbullet]

"What defines an efficacious COVID-19 vaccine? A review of the challenges assessing the clinical efficacy of vaccines against SARS-CoV-2"
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30773-8/fulltext

Some points made in the article:

• A vaccine could cause faster mutation of the virus
• A vaccine could cause respiratory disease without exposure to the virus
• A vaccine could cause prolonged shedding of the virus
• Controlled human infection model (CHIM) studies aren't being done?
  • Only inferring statistical possible exposure in the trail study volunteers

From the Conclusion:
Assessment of the efficacy of a vaccine is complex for many diseases but particularly so in the case of SARS-CoV-2, where the fundamental understanding of the pathogen is evolving.

Could is the keyword. Most of the vaccines use a viral agent or particle to cause an immune response. Most VOCID vaccines use adenovirus which is a common cold-like virus do yes it would likely cause a mild respiratory illness. We do not have time for a CHIM.

 

[cwbullet]

Interesting out of Norway:
https://oslo-universitetssykehus.no...ge-korona#facts-about-the-cod-liver-oil-study
I need more research but if you take cod liver oil, keep taking it. More is not always better.

 

[kuririn]

I need more research but if you take cod liver oil, keep taking it. More is not always better.

From the study:
"Cod liver oil has a natural content of vitamin D and the omega-3 fatty acids DHA and EPA. "
Maybe something to do with Vitamin D? If so I'd rather take some Vitamin D pills!
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-vitamin-d-and-covid-19

 

[Peartree]

Is "Cod Liver Oil" the same as, or at all similar to, the "Fish Oil" supplements that I take (at my doctors recommendation)?

 

[boatgeek]

Is "Cod Liver Oil" the same as, or at all similar to, the "Fish Oil" supplements that I take (at my doctors recommendation)?

Cod Liver Oil is pretty specific (as the name says) to cod. Fish oil in general can come from a lot of different fish. Many of our clients make it out of pollock or whiting as well as cod. It's one of the products that come out when you turn all of the offal into fishmeal, usually for animal feed. Our clients often used to blend it into the diesel they burned in their engines or boilers, but now it's more valuable as a standalone product. In a few cases, we've designed USP-grade tanks for the fish oil so they can sell it in supplements.

This episode of "More than you wanted to know" brought to you by Boatgeek!

 

[Peartree]

Cod Liver Oil is pretty specific (as the name says) to cod. Fish oil in general can come from a lot of different fish. Many of our clients make it out of pollock or whiting as well as cod. It's one of the products that come out when you turn all of the offal into fishmeal, usually for animal feed. Our clients often used to blend it into the diesel they burned in their engines or boilers, but now it's more valuable as a standalone product. In a few cases, we've designed USP-grade tanks for the fish oil so they can sell it in supplements.

This episode of "More than you wanted to know" brought to you by Boatgeek!

That makes sense but, from a medical standpoint, if I take a daily "fish oil" supplement, do I get any of the benefits that "cod liver oil" might grant in regard to COVID-19?

 

[boatgeek]

That makes sense but, from a medical standpoint, if I take a daily "fish oil" supplement, do I get any of the benefits that "cod liver oil" might grant in regard to COVID-19?

Sorry for not actually answering the question. From this article, it looks like fish oil doesn't have as much Vitamin D as cod liver oil. If the D is the good stuff for COVID, it wouldn't be in regular fish oil.

 

[cwbullet]

Sorry for not actually answering the question. From this article, it looks like fish oil doesn't have as much Vitamin D as cod liver oil. If the D is the good stuff for COVID, it wouldn't be in regular fish oil.

You are good and that is spot on. Fish oil has many positives. COVID protection might not be one of them. COD Liver oil may be better for this instance.

As always, I preface this with the fact we need more research on this. I would not flock down to buy a bunch of cod liver oil. There is no reason to start Hoarding that.

 

[BABAR]

You are good and that is spot on. Fish oil has many positives. COVID protection might not be one of them. COD Liver oil may be better for this instance.

Not so good for the cod.

 

[boatgeek]

Not so good for the cod.

'Struth. Pacific cod fisheries are fairly stable, particularly in Alaska. The Atlantic cod fisheries are in rougher shape. It helps that we only overfished Alaska for about 50 years before getting our heads on straight, as opposed to about 400 years on the Atlantic side. I'll stop threadjacking now.

 

[Peartree]

You are good and that is spot on. Fish oil has many positives. COVID protection might not be one of them. COD Liver oil may be better for this instance.

As always, I preface this with the fact we need more research on this. I would not flock down to buy a bunch of cod liver oil. There is no reason to start Hoarding that.

Thanks. I'm not rushing to change anything. For the Vitamin D, I suppose I'm already taking a daily multivitamin so between the two, I should be at least partially covered.

 

[cwbullet]

Not so good for the cod.

That is 100% true. Then again, eating salmon is probably not too good for them either.

 

[CalebJ]

IMO, eating salmon is probably great for cod.

 

[davel]

For the Vitamin D, I suppose I'm already taking a daily multivitamin so between the two, I should be at least partially covered.

Or buy the fish oil that has vitamin D added. The supplement I take is 1200 mg Omega-3/Fish Oil + 1000 IU D3, taken twice a day.

 

[dhbarr]

Or just drink milk and OJ that has vitamin D, plus get some sunshine? AFAICT none of these are humful to either fish.

 

[NateB]

The fish are far tastier baked or fried than they are when the pressed oil is placed in a capsule.

 

[cwbullet]

The fish are far tastier baked or fried than they are when the pressed oil is placed in a capsule.

I am not too fond of fish unless it is blackened.

 

[mo2872]

I am not too fond of fish unless it is blackened.

You are not eating the right fish!

Pellet grill+fresh salmon+12-15 minutes=delicate fish goodness

Broiler+ rainbow trout + ample lemon wedges= light fish nirvana

Don‘t even get me started on swords, shark and mahi-mahi!

 

[mo2872]

Don’t get me wrong, blackened redfish is great......but man, soooo many choices!

 

[jsdemar]

Could is the keyword. Most of the vaccines use a viral agent or particle to cause an immune response. Most VOCID vaccines use adenovirus which is a common cold-like virus do yes it would likely cause a mild respiratory illness. We do not have time for a CHIM.

What about a CHIM trial takes any longer than regular drug trials? It is unprecedented to release a vaccine without a direct controlled test, giving the virus to volunteers.

The "could" warnings in the article are the reason why all drugs have trials and reviews. Without the luxury of 4 or 5 years to measure long-term side affects, there are significant risks. Other than that Lancet article, I don't see anyone informing the public of the risks from a rushed vaccine.

 

[SkyFire]

 

[NateB]

I don't see anyone informing the public of the risks from a rushed vaccine.

It isn't like this vaccine is being made from scratch over the past 9 months. Pharmaceutical researchers have been studying and working on vaccines for SARS and MERS for years. Both are caused by coronaviruses and share genetic structure with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. They had a good staring point already and then worldwide interest along with worldwide funding to make the final push to apply what they knew to the problem that we have today. I won't say it is risk free, nothing in medicine is, but this wasn't rushed starting from nothing. It is like having a runner on 2nd base and needing a good solid base hit to get the run in.