Coronavirus: What questions do you have?

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cwbullet

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Guys: let's not turn this into a race discussion. The fact is that a large number of reported infections in some areas occur in Black Americans and the outcomes are more severe. The fact is that poor outcomes happen in the same group. The virus does nto choose to infect based on race but risk and infectivity. We do not know why there is a disparity but it certainly could be social or genetic. It is conjecture until we can find scientific proof.
 

Speaknoevil

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Guys: let's not turn this into a race discussion. The fact is that a large number of reported infections in some areas occur in Black Americans and the outcomes are more severe. The fact is that poor outcomes happen in the same group. The virus does nto choose to infect based on race but risk and infectivity. We do not know why there is a disparity but it certainly could be social or genetic. It is conjecture until we can find scientific proof.
Race is not genetic: https://www.sapiens.org/body/is-race-real/
 

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I never said race was genetic. either way, you are dead wrong. The racial differences are genetic - hair color, eye color, body differences. Genes run in families and certain families have predispositions to to disease is what I was saying but either way, start you own thread if you want to start trolling for a response on race.
 
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dhbarr

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Perhaps you may think so, but speculation is how we come up with new ideas to look into. Being more concerned about peoples feelings than exploring uncomfortable ideas hampers that effort. I don't give a damn about appearing insensitive in this matter.
My apologies, I didn't realize you were involved in the research efforts.
 

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Perhaps you may think so, but speculation is how we come up with new ideas to look into. Being more concerned about peoples feelings than exploring uncomfortable ideas hampers that effort. I don't give a damn about appearing insensitive in this matter.
If you are involved in research, thanks for your efforts from someone on the front and administrative line on COVID. I personally screened over 200 people for COVID in the last 2 weeks. I will be testing (swabbing) another 300 on Tuesday and Wednesday. I am grateful for any effort to reduce the burden on the American Public.
 

Bill S

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My apologies, I didn't realize you were involved in the research efforts.
My sarcasm meter seems to have pegged on that statement. Its just that I get irritated when people are more concerned about appearances and feelings than getting to the bottom of something. This is pretty pervasive in science these days, I think, where ideas/theories that are against the prevailing attitudes don't get explored or studied because they might upset someone's feels. Not that the particular idea is totally insane or impossible (and even if it is according to conventional wisdom it still deserves exploration to confirm one way or the other), but that the possibility that it might upset those who control the grant money. Or it goes against prevailing social ideas and is automatically taboo even if the concept is scientifically valid.

If you are involved in research, thanks for your efforts from someone on the front and administrative line on COVID.
No, sorry, I am not. It was just dhbarr being sarcastic.
 

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Hi Chuck, question:

Have you seen this and does this appear credible and well-designed to you? This is the first HQ study I've seen come out in a little while:

This appears to be the best to date. I still would not take the medication until I see more data. That being said, it is promising. The theory is sound and it has always made sense that Plaquenil would work. For me, if was given an option of medications, I would take Ramdesivir and steroids over Plaquenil. The evidence and theory is more sound.
 
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Update: 3500 infections in GA. Our testing lanes are closed today. I was tested yesterday and negative. I not required to be tested, I would have not have volunteered to be swabbed. It is brutal.
 

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We noticed some Covid patients being screened for or receiving Tocilizumab in conjunction with other treatments we have discussed already. This is a new drug to me, but appears to be another immunosuppressant used to treat RA. @heada already mentioned this drug being trialed for Covid, is anyone else following up on this treatment?
 

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We noticed some Covid patients being screened for or receiving Tocilizumab in conjunction with other treatments we have discussed already. This is a new drug to me, but appears to be another immunosuppressant used to treat RA. @heada already mentioned this drug being trialed for Covid, is anyone else following up on this treatment?
Yes, there are several studies ongoing and several have been completed. It appears that Tocilizumab blocks the Interleukin-6 pathway and thus reduces the cytokine storm and inflammation. It is pretty much used for the sickest of the sick, but they are probably looking at other groups also.

Findings of studies already complete:
  • A study from Lancet found that treatment with tocilizumab, whether administered intravenously or subcutaneously, might reduce the risk of invasive mechanical ventilation or death in patients with severe COVID-19 pneumonia.
  • Another study present at the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found that Tocilizumab was an effective treatment to reduce mortality.
  • Another article from the American Journal of Virology confirms that Tocilizumab appears to be an effective treatment option in COVID‐19 patients with a risk of cytokine storms by suppressing Interleukin-6.
It is another hotbed of research and there is more and more published every day, but yes, they are following these patients.
 

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Update: 3500 infections in GA. Our testing lanes are closed today. I was tested yesterday and negative. I not required to be tested, I would have not have volunteered to be swabbed. It is brutal.
I've been swabbed now, twice. While not pleasant I've had far worse medical tests done to me. Idaho's positive test rate has gone up to 15% now and is expected to go higher.
 

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I've been swabbed now, twice. While not pleasant I've had far worse medical tests done to me. Idaho's positive test rate has gone up to 15% now and is expected to go higher.
I would nto disagree. Colonoscopy and intubation are worse.
 

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Update from GA: 6 of the last 7 days above 2K. We are closed but our ED is getting hammered. Low admissions.
 

ksaves2

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:)
I would nto disagree. Colonoscopy and intubation are worse.
Hmmmmm, I’ve had both :oops: and they weren’t at all bad. I expect anesthesia made sure I was “down” before they put the tube in and I did not have a sore throat after. Was a three hour operation too. Colonoscopy? Piece o’ cake. With sedation I don’t remember a thing. Yeah the prep was a hassle, two bottles of mag citrate and clear liquids for 24 hours before. I did 4 oz of castor oil on my own to get it started. Wasn‘t that bad. I will caution at age 54 castor oil was “ok” but I had some in my 30’s and I evacuated in 15 minutes and cramped all afternoon. In my 50’s it helped but didn’t give me any side effects and cramping. It was fresh stuff too.:)
Post-op pain is the real discomfort. When they tell you you can have 4mg. of Morphine every 2 hours it’s gonna hurt bad!

Oh, everyone in the clinic (doctors and entire staff) were swabbed. It was the nasal one and not too bad. Everyone came back negative. Fulton county in Illinois is still at 15. 12 recovered and 3 are doing so at home. Something to be said about being “hicks” who don’t go anywhere. Still irks me that people are starting to eschew masks in stores. That concerns me. A lot of them appear to be older and at risk too.
Thank heavens Hy-Vee/Walmart still requires them. No parade yesterday but God bless’em they had the fireworks. Our little town Canton puts on a great show at the High School. Usually had them in the stadium but they smartly locked it down. People parked back of the Stadium and there was a large grassy practice field for walk-ins. Family groups were 50 to 100 feet apart in this area so no issue with being maskless. Did a 3.5 mile walk yesterday at a park with a paved path. We saw two other maskless walkers (we were too) but stayed more than 15 feet apart when passing. Gosh it’s great to be retired. (July 1st!) I just have to make sure I don’t go out and do something stupid to get sick. Kurt
 
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cwbullet

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:)

Hmmmmm, I’ve had both :oops: and they weren’t at all bad. I expect anesthesia made sure I was “down” before they put the tube in and I did not have a sore throat after. Was a three hour operation too. Colonoscopy? Piece o’ cake. With sedation I don’t remember a thing. Yeah the prep was a hassle, two bottles of mag citrate and clear liquids for 24 hours before. I did 4 oz of castor oil on my own to get it started. Wasn‘t that bad. I will caution at age 54 castor oil was “ok” but I had some in my 30’s and I evacuated in 15 minutes and cramped all afternoon. In my 50’s it helped but didn’t give me any side effects and cramping. It was fresh stuff too.:)
Post-op pain is the real discomfort. When they tell you you can have 4mg. of Morphine every 2 hours it’s gonna hurt bad!

Oh, everyone in the clinic (doctors and entire staff) were swabbed. It was the nasal one and not too bad. Everyone came back negative. Fulton county in Illinois is still at 15. 12 recovered and 3 are doing so at home. Something to be said about being “hicks” who don’t go anywhere. Still irks me that people are starting to eschew masks in stores. That concerns me. A lot of them appear to be older and at risk too.
Thank heavens Hy-Vee/Walmart still requires them. No parade yesterday but God bless’em they had the fireworks. Our little town Canton puts on a great show at the High School. Usually had them in the stadium but they smartly locked it down. People parked back of the Stadium and there was a large grassy practice field for walk-ins. Family groups were 50 to 100 feet apart in this area so no issue with being maskless. Did a 3.5 mile walk yesterday at a park with a paved path. We saw two other maskless walkers (we were too) but stayed more than 15 feet apart when passing. Gosh it’s great to be retired. (July 1st!) I just have to make sure I don’t go out and do something stupid to get sick. Kurt
There are 3 types of PCR testing for COVID: Oral, Nasal, and Nasopharyngeal. I listed them in order of mild to harsh. Oral is of limited use right now because of some problems with test quality.
 

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email said:
I read a news article on quercetin. Is there any validity on the use?
Hmm. I do not typically like supplements. You should always discuss their use with a medical provider.

Quercetin is a plant flavonoid found in capers, green tea, and pineapple. It is being investigated by some as a potential adjunct therapy for patients with COVID-19, but whether quercetin will stand the test of rigorous trials remains unclear. The study was on 95 individuals in a hospital in Turkey who were given a supplement of Vitamin C, Bromalin, and Quercetin. None were infected with COVID. They are currently re-evaluating the supplement with a larger study.

Would I take this? No. Multiple sellers sell a product like this. QBC by Solray is an example. It is likely not harmful, but this research could be a natural version of the research used to back hydroxychloroquine. It is a small study, and it could be that these 95 just were more careful to not catch it. Then again, people have been using the compoun to treat some seasonal allergies for years.
 

ksaves2

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There are 3 types of PCR testing for COVID: Oral, Nasal, and Nasopharyngeal. I listed them in order of mild to harsh. Oral is of limited use right now because of some problems with test quality.
In college around 1976 in the microbiology course, I went on a quest ON my body to recover any “unique” bacteria that might be growing on my person as if one found a bug the professor didn’t have in his collection, he‘d give one extra points. Back then it was H$!! to get into med school, I wasn’t the smartest cookie in the jar and was fully immersed in the “paper chase” for grades/GPA.

I did everything except a urethral swab because I figured the yield would be low for anything interesting as I was asymptomatic and celibate. Catholic college with few women/girls around as the school just went coed 5 years prior. It kept one on task! :rolleyes: One girl harbored shigella in her rectal swab and was asymptomatic so she got extra points. I believe it was S.dysenteriae which is weird because she wasn’t sick with dysentery. Must have been a defective/castrated version I guess. :dontknow: I believe they told her to go to a doc to consider an oral antibiotic. Don’t know what they would have used at that time. Was 1976.

I got an interesting gram positive kidney shaped bacteria from one of those long nasopharyngeal swabs I jabbed in my nose. Heck I was 19 and “tough” back then. Same types of swabs they shove up the urethra for VD screens. I subcultured it and did a pile of subcultures on I think 15 or maybe 20 different types of media, recorded the results and went to Bergey’s Manual of Determinative Microbiology to look up the patterns. Turned out I recovered Corynebacteria “pseudo” diphtheriticum which is a harmless commensal and a relative to Corynebacteria diphtheria. This causes Diptheria or whooping cough for which we are all immunized against. Weird thing thought at the time was if pseudodiptheriticum conjugates with a special phage (sort of has sex with it to exchange genetic material) it could change into the pathogenic C.diptheria. It had no reason to do that because if it did, my antibodies from the DPT shots I’ve had over the years would kill it off!

So, I had a potential pathogen that’s holding on to its advantage to remain a harmless commensal in my nasopharynx so it can live! I thought that was really cool :cool: I got the extra points too!

Sorry for being OT but thought a little scientific method diversion reading folks might find entertaining.

Oh I just saw an article from the Henry Ford hospital system on a very large study that came to the conclusion that Plaquenil IS beneficial in treating Covid! Very large study, in peer reviewed journal but the kicker here is they instituted it VERY EARLY in the disease course and not as an add-on to the very ill. Had non treated controls too. Treated turned out better recovery rate.

I think I saw in this TRF thread here that a poster conjectured, might have been Chuck, that timing of Plaquenil might be important. This study seems to sugggest it. It came over on my Apple news feed but I expect one could google it. Kurt Savegnago
 
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Update from GA: 6 of the last 7 days above 2K. We are closed but our ED is getting hammered. Low admissions.
Chuck,

When you say your ED is getting hammered but low admissions, are people going to the emergency room with symptoms that aren't severe enough to be admitted to the hospital? Is it people think they have the virus but it's something else like allergies?

If it is in fact Coronavirus, is it younger/healthier people getting infected? maybe milder cases or strain? The death rate isn't tracking with the cases (yet).
 

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I think I saw in this TRF thread here that a poster conjectured, might have been Chuck, that timing of Plaquenil might be important. This study seems to sugggest it. It came over on my Apple news feed but I expect one could google it. Kurt Savegnago
The timing might be the key factor. The bottom line on this drug is that the research hit contradictory. There is nto definitive guidance and part of that is due to the political sensitivity from both sides. Let's not criticize either side and just stick to the medical side of the discussion.

I think Hydroxychloroquine will be found to be effective in some situations.
 

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When you say your ED is getting hammered but low admissions, are people going to the emergency room with symptoms that aren't severe enough to be admitted to the hospital?
Yes. We are seeing a lot of cases that should remain at home and we are seeing some patients that held off from seeking care too long. Most of what we are seeing is non-COVID, bu the smattering of COVIOD type patient is delaying care for all because of the extensive measure you have to take to prevent exposure.

Is it people think they have the virus but it's something else like allergies?
We are getting a fair number of common colds and allergies but we have to treat it like COVID.

If it is in fact Coronavirus, is it younger/healthier people getting infected?
Yes, but we are seeing a rising number of folks that brought it home to their parents and grandparents. I have one case where they through a father's day party and one person passed it to over 2 dozen family members. One of which required admission to the ICU. 96% of those at the party are now COVID Positive. I certainly would not be throwing parties yet.

maybe milder cases or strain? The death rate isn't tracking with the cases (yet).
They are milder but we are starting to see a spike in older patients. It may just be a matter of time until the death rate rises.
 
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Hmmmmm, I’ve had both :oops: and they weren’t at all bad. I expect anesthesia made sure I was “down” before they put the tube in and I did not have a sore throat after. Was a three hour operation too. Colonoscopy? Piece o’ cake. With sedation I don’t remember a thing. Yeah the prep was a hassle, two bottles of mag citrate and clear liquids for 24 hours before.
I concur with all this.
 

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Update: another 2K plus in GA. We might be done with COVID, but I suspect it is not done with us. Stay safe!
 

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Update: another 2K plus in GA. We might be done with COVID, but I suspect it is not done with us. Stay safe!
Ohio's 21-day running average (cases) is now higher than it's ever been (800+ per day). Hospitalizations and deaths are no longer declining but haven't definitively started rising again, but watching the increase in cases makes us think that it's only a matter of time.
 

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Ohio's 21-day running average (cases) is now higher than it's ever been (800+ per day). Hospitalizations and deaths are no longer declining but haven't definitively started rising again, but watching the increase in cases makes us think that it's only a matter of time.
You might be right. We have to start testing 10% of our medical staff every week. Someone feels it might protect our patients.
 

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Todays research:

Coronavirus Mutation May Make Virus More Infective and Less Deadly.
Clearly this virus is adapting more than prior Coronavirus. Multiple mutations have been reported and the changes may be occurring more rapidly than previously thought for this family of viruses. For months, scientists have debated whether a variant of the coronavirus that has come to predominate in much of the world did so partly because it is more infective or transmissible than other coronaviruses. Heck, it is more transmissible than Influenza. A new report posted by the journal Cell suggests that new variants are becoming less deadly be up to 8 times more infective. The change appears to be a gene that changes the spike proteins. It will be important to determine whether the variants behave differently with antibodies either triggered by vaccinations or natural infection. The spike proteins can make the virus more likely to infect people but does not seem to make them any sicker.

Once again, reportedly, this strain is different than what appeared in Wuhan, China, the city where the coronavirus is believed to have originated.
 

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Todays research:

Coronavirus Mutation May Make Virus More Infective and Less Deadly.
Clearly this virus is adapting more than prior Coronavirus. Multiple mutations have been reported and the changes may be occurring more rapidly than previously thought for this family of viruses. For months, scientists have debated whether a variant of the coronavirus that has come to predominate in much of the world did so partly because it is more infective or transmissible than other coronaviruses. Heck, it is more transmissible than Influenza. A new report posted by the journal Cell suggests that new variants are becoming less deadly be up to 8 times more infective. The change appears to be a gene that changes the spike proteins. It will be important to determine whether the variants behave differently with antibodies either triggered by vaccinations or natural infection. The spike proteins can make the virus more likely to infect people but does not seem to make them any sicker.

Once again, reportedly, this strain is different than what appeared in Wuhan, China, the city where the coronavirus is believed to have originated.
Isn't that bad news for our hope of a vaccine? The original thought was that Coronaviruses (in general) mutate slowly, so (it was hoped) that a successful vaccine might be persistent and "last" for a long time. Similarly, if it is mutating this quickly, doesn't that make it *more* likely that it could eventually mutate into a more deadly strain (this would be particularly bad after it has already mutated to be more communicable)?
 

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Isn't that bad news for our hope of a vaccine? The original thought was that Coronaviruses (in general) mutate slowly, so (it was hoped) that a successful vaccine might be persistent and "last" for a long time. Similarly, if it is mutating this quickly, doesn't that make it *more* likely that it could eventually mutate into a more deadly strain (this would be particularly bad after it has already mutated to be more communicable)?
Not necessarily. There are hundreds of mutations to influenza year in and year out. The vaccine still helps. No need to panic yet.
 
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