Coronavirus Outbreak

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Ez2cDave

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Yeah, I saw that before and looked up who he is. I always do that. "Francis Anthony Boyle (born March 25, 1950) is a professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. "

As a result, I did not bother to watch the video.


I'll go with former bioweapons defense microbiologist Steven Hatfill who reviewed the various studies of the virus at the genetic level who says it's not a biological weapon.
I prefer not to always "go with" people who tell me what I want to hear . . . Sometimes, the truth can be inconvenient or discomforting !

Dave F.
 

shreadvector

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A man goes to a psychiatrist. The doctor says, "You're crazy" The man says, "I want a second opinion!" "Okay, you're ugly too!"
 

Winston

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I prefer not to always "go with" people who tell me what I want to hear . . . Sometimes, the truth can be inconvenient or discomforting !

Dave F.
I don't "want to hear" anything. The "Dr." in that video you posted is a PhD law professor, NOT an MD... or a bio-weapons expert like Hatfill. That's why I'll go with Hatfill's statement that this shows no signs of being a bio-weapon.

And speaking of what one wants to hear, how is preferring the spew of a totally unqualified individual unjustifiably saying 2019-nCoV is a bio-weapon not apparently what YOU want to hear along with your apparent fixation on this as a 21st century Black Death plague which it is not?

Don't degrade this into some conspiracy theory garbage.
 

Winston

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Well said, sir . . . The World is being lied to by China !

Dave F.
You'll note I included the likely possibility that they are overwhelmed and simply don't have an accurate count.
 

Ez2cDave

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You'll note I included the likely possibility that they are overwhelmed and simply don't have an accurate count.
Show me an irrefutable, undeniable source for that information . . . I do not believe the "honesty" of Communist China, sorry !

Dave F.
 

Winston

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Show me an irrefutable, undeniable source for that information . . . I do not believe the "honesty" of Communist China, sorry !

Dave F.
It was in one of the interviews of him which specifically got around to asking about the bio-weapons theory. When it comes to an expert judgement on that, his is as good as you're going to get and I seriously doubt any other former bio-weapons expert is going to talk about that even IF the topic comes up, that topic being something which I seriously doubt will be brought up much.

On my feelings about the "honesty" of the Chinese Communist Party, have you not seen my thread on the huge military, espionage and hacking threat from China? I don't trust them any further than I could throw fat man Xi.
 

dr wogz

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Dave, your paranoia is showing quite clearly.

Other have debunked your sources, and have suggested you search out other sources, reliable & respected sources, to either corroborate or debunk your initial mind-set. But you seem stead-fast that this is an evil bio-weapon that's gonna wipe out the planet (possibly...) That China has engineered this and it's gotten out of hand; either by accident or as a controlled test gone wrong..

You're just spreading fear, false information, and jumping to conclusions.. I believe the proper / today's term is "Fake News"... Your'e not being analytical or subjective, and don't seem open to hear what others have said / will say.. Reputable people who are informed, in "the know", educated in said field, are authorized to talk about the subject at hand..

You may have a few followers and a few who share your point of view. But I think more are starting to laugh at you at this point..



:popcorn:
 

Ez2cDave

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Dave, your paranoia is showing quite clearly.

Other have debunked your sources, and have suggested you search out other sources, reliable & respected sources, to either corroborate or debunk your initial mind-set. But you seem stead-fast that this is an evil bio-weapon that's gonna wipe out the planet (possibly...) That China has engineered this and it's gotten out of hand; either by accident or as a controlled test gone wrong..

You're just spreading fear, false information, and jumping to conclusions.. I believe the proper / today's term is "Fake News"... Your'e not being analytical or subjective, and don't seem open to hear what others have said / will say.. Reputable people who are informed, in "the know", educated in said field, are authorized to talk about the subject at hand..

You may have a few followers and a few who share your point of view. But I think more are starting to laugh at you at this point..



:popcorn:
Whenever self-appointed "fact-checkers" start making the issue about "cancelling" all other perspectives, but their own, it becomes more a matter of "personal agenda" than an open discussion of the situation. In the end game of the coronavirus outbreak, your opinions and my opinions will mean exactly zero, in the "big picture".

We, none of us, have no ability to participate, in a meaningful way, towards ending the coronavirus outbreak and, quite frankly, I think that "bruises your ego". So, you start strutting around here, seeking respect and recognition, without success.

You call for me to be "open", while you remain "closed" on your part, expecting others to "kowtow" to you ( not happening ) . . . Hypocrisy !

I am going to continue to post my issues and concerns, whether you like the sources or not . . . You are welcome not to read them !

By the way, I think you meant to say "objective", rather than "subjective" . . .

Dave F.
 

Winston

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CDC supposedly just gave an update press conference. Nowhere to be found on YouTube.

Second
cruise ship with issues:

3,700 on Dream Cruises ship undergoing testing after 3 confirmed coronavirus cases
5 Feb 2020

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...rantined-tested-after-three-cases/4665323002/

On Wednesday, nearly 3,700 people onboard Genting’s World Dream cruise were being held on the ship and undergoing testing for coronavirus.

Three people who were on the ship from Jan. 19 to Jan. 24 have tested positive for coronavirus, according to a letter to guests from Dream Cruises, which operates the ship. As a result, Taiwan’s government blocked the ship’s port of call in Kaohsiung and forced its return to Hong Kong on Wednesday. There are 1,871 passengers and 1,820 crew members
[nearly one for every passenger!!!??? - W] onboard.

Edith Poon, spokesperson for Genting Hong Kong Limited, the holding company that owns Dream Cruises, confirmed that 30 crew members self-declared symptoms of the virus. "We are currently waiting for the results to come in," she told USA TODAY. "Upon availability of the results, we shall comply with the Department of Health's instruction on the next step forward. Until then, as advised by the Department of Health, all passengers of the cruise ship are to remain onboard."


Silence is golden?

A patient at a South Florida hospital was tested for coronavirus. The public remains in the dark.
5 Feb 2020

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/f...0200205-3arkaspyw5fblijxwht6vx5lbq-story.html

A potential case of coronavirus disrupted emergency operations at a Hollywood hospital on Friday, but nearly a week later, the Florida health department won’t confirm even that a person was tested.

The incident appeared significant: hospital workers told at least one fire-rescue department not to bring anyone to Memorial Regional Hospital’s emergency room, and another department was told to wear masks.

Health departments across the nation are divided on whether to inform the public when they are testing people who may be infected, and Florida has taken the side of withholding that information from the public.


Coronavirus live updates: WHO says new cases surged over 24 hours, US accepts 4 new flights from Wuhan
5 Feb 2020

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/coronavirus-live-updates.html

The U.S. is accepting four new planes carrying Americans being evacuated from Wuhan, China, the epicenter of the outbreak, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. The Americans will be quarantined at four different military bases across the U.S.: Eppley Airfield in Omaha, Nebraska; Travis Air Force Base in California; Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego and Lackland Air Force Base in Texas. “This could be the beginning of what could be a long response,” said Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said on a conference call with reporters.

A look at a made in Texas virus-fighting robot being used to disinfect hospital rooms of 2019-nCoV in 10 minutes with pulsed-zenon-lamp broad specturm ultraviolet
[very interesting video of that at the link].

A pregnant mother infected with the coronavirus gave birth, and her baby tested positive 30 hours later
5 Feb 2020

https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhan-coronavirus-in-infant-born-from-infected-mother-2020-2

A 30-hour-old infant born in a Wuhan children's hospital has become the youngest person to catch the new coronavirus.

The newborn's mother is a coronavirus patient, The South China Morning Post (SCMP) reported on Wednesday. The baby's case raises the possibility that new virus could jump from person to person via vertical transmission - when a mother passes a virus to her child in the womb, during childbirth, or via breast milk.
[there was no evidence ever found of MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV vertical transmission and they looked hard from studies I've found - W]

"We should be concerned about the possible new transmission route of the coronavirus," Zeng Lingkong, a senior physician at the Wuhan children's hospital neonatal department, told SCMP.

 

Winston

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Coronavirus: UK, France urge citizens to leave China, Belgium has 1st case
5 Feb 2020

https://www.business-standard.com/a...ina-belgium-sees-1st-case-120020500107_1.html

An updated advisory issued by the U.K. Foreign Office said that while commercial flights remained available from most of mainland China, travel restrictions introduced by the Chinese government to contain the epidemic meant "it may become harder to access departure options over the coming weeks."

If you're in China and able to leave, you should do so, the advisory said.

France also issued an advisory, warning against any non-essential travel to China and suggesting that French citizens who were already there return home.
 

Winston

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CDC dude: "While we recognize this is an unprecedented action [14-day quarantines for Americans returning from China - W], we are facing an unprecedented public health threat..."

Interesting to hear him use the term "unprecedented."

"One small child" on the latest flight had a fever "and is now being evaluated." None of the people already in quarantine show any symptoms. Their ages range from under 2 to over 65. They all experience twice daily health checks. Most victims show symptoms within first week after exposure.

Abrupt end to CDC conference. The guy who introduced him walks up to the CDC guy being questioned by the media and they both just suddenly walk out after 20 minutes of briefing. No closing statement. Some media present chuckle at the weirdness.

CDC Press Conference
5 Feb 2020


FDA To Allow Use Of Coronavirus Test at U.S. Labs
5 Feb 2020


China announced they'll be rapidly building three more hospitals. FDA test now approved which is mentioned in above video is not 100% accurate meaning a negative result actually proves nothing with 100% certainty. Also, see my previous post on the Chinese guy in China who was tested three times (probably a different test) while symptomatic and only the third test was positive for 2019-nCoV.
 
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Cnorm

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Simple . . . Exposure is, basically, a "numbers game". The more people you are around, the higher the mathematical possibility of exposure. I live outside a small town, in rural North Carolina ( Pop. 3700 ), about 25 miles outside of Raleigh . . . So, my "plan" is:

(1) Carefully watch active case numbers in the USA.

(2) Avoid contact in areas frequented by large numbers of people. ( Church, grocery stores, malls, restaurants, etc. )

(3) Lay in a good supply of "staple foods", medications, extra propane cylinders, and bottled water, in addition to stocking up our spare freezer.

(4) Be certain our vehicles are fully-fueled, at all times, with extra fuel stored.

(5) Basically, if the situation warrants, to "Bug-In" and "hunker down".

In a nutshell, be prepared to isolate ourselves, until the maximum number of victims, in our area, either die off and/or the "active case numbers" decline substantially.

Dave F.
Looks like a solid plan. You have a head-start with the rural location I have a few questions:

When you stockpile supplies are you concerned about the attention it might bring? Word could get around that you're well stocked and if the stuff hit the fan you’d have to fight off raiders. Since an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, could you stockpile without people noticing?

If it gets bad the power could go and the deep freezer food could spoil. What are your thoughts on back-up power? Generators are noisy which neighbors could hear, prompting a raid. Plus burning gas you may need for your vehicles. I’ve been looking at Goal Zero power stations They have battery units with inverters that would run a freezer for a day or two. Can be recharged off solar panels, but it takes a long time. Advantages are they’re silent and only provide power when needed.

What about masks or protective suits?
 

Marc_G

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Masks are great---to protect others if you are sick. Wearing a mask confers very little protection against this kind of thing. Think about wearing chicken wire armor to protect against BBs.

What's going on isn't going to be World War Z here. It's a nasty bug, worse than the flu, and it got a lot of people sick before the scale of the situation was understood. They are on it now. It probably won't be fully contained anytime soon. But in the US it is likely to have minimal impact other than travel restrictions to/from hot zones and if there significant outbreaks here, we know what to do about them and we know how to provide proper treatment to minimize death by secondary infections and such.

The biggest problem, in China, was that they didn't know what they were dealing with until it was too late. I see all this end of the world prepper talk for something that's probably going to have the US impact of a somewhat worse than usual flu season.
 

Steven

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There is a cure, build more rockets. George Bush told the nation after 911 to simply go about our business. I didn't have to be told the obvious so back to rockets I go.
 

dr wogz

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https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/what-...hip-stopped-for-fear-of-coronavirus-1.4800361

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/prison...-for-two-things-whisky-and-a-banana-1.4799680

some stories form the cruise ships docked outside Japan.. trying to decide what's worse: being quarantined on a ship afar, or on a military base at home..

As for the cruise ship quarantine; they've obviously missed their plane back home. Do they get reimbursed? Do they pay for the new tickets? Or does someone else (the cruise line? the government?) pay for them?
 

Winston

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Wuhan Coronavirus Hospitals Turn Away All but Most Severe Cases
Medical staff overwhelmed as more Chinese cities restrict movement
5 Feb 2020

https://www.wsj.com/articles/united...aps-demand-11580897463?mod=world_major_2_pos6

The medical system in China’s Hubei province, where the virus broke out in Wuhan, the capital, in December, has been overwhelmed by the virus, and front-line staff have been forced to turn patients away as authorities race to build new hospitals.

A 1,000-bed facility was completed in Wuhan on Sunday and began receiving patients, while the second—a 1,600-bed hospital—was set to open on Wednesday, less than two weeks after plans for their construction were announced. Roughly two dozen hospitals in the city have been designated for virus treatment, and other facilities are being repurposed as well.

Hu Lishan, a local Communist Party official, said at a press conference Wednesday night that many patients confirmed to have the coronavirus hadn’t been admitted to hospitals designated for virus treatment because of a lack of available beds. The situation was distressing and painful, he said.
Jiang Rongmeng, a member of the Chinese National Health Commission’s team studying the virus, said inadequate medical resources in Wuhan were contributing to a higher mortality rate there.

“The medical resources in Wuhan, especially the ICU team, are not enough to deal with this severe treatment,” he said in an interview on Tuesday with state broadcaster China Central Television. The death rate from the virus in the city is 4.9%, more than twice the nationwide 2.1%, according to the health commission.


[snip]

Cities throughout China are putting increasingly severe restrictions on residents. Zhumadian, a city in Henan province—which borders Hubei—is allowing one person per household to leave every five days to buy supplies.

At least a half-dozen Chinese cities, including the tech hub of Hangzhou, near Shanghai, have imposed similar regulations, though typically allowing shopping every other day. Wuhan, Hubei’s capital, has been under lockdown for two weeks.


-----------

Is this a Hospital or a Coronavirus Deathatorium?
5 Feb 2020

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/econ...ronavirus-deathatorium-ZcvBDAAd4kGel9rW-6-JaQ




From Bloomberg report "China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus":

"People are queuing for eight hours just to get tested for the coronavirus," said the college graduate, John Chen, who’s 23. His feverish mother is yet to be tested.

“At first I was upset that the hospitals and officials I called for help weren’t willing to do their job, but later I realized that it’s not that they are unwilling to help, but that everywhere is way too short of resources,” he said.

“I don’t blame anyone, because if you grow up in China, you learn that’s how the system works.”

The article notes that John Mackenzie, a senior member of the WHO's emergency committee broke ranks and called China’s response “reprehensible”. “There must have been more cases happening that we weren’t being told about," said Mackenzie. Previously, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director-general, lavished praise on China for its response.

Questions Abound

Is the world saved?
Is China?
How many have really died?
What about medical supplies?
Are those images of functional hospital or deathatoriums?

Only 500 Dead?

Zhumadian, a city in Henan province allows one person per household to leave every five days to buy supplies.

Wuhan, Hangzhou, half dozen other cities with similar restrictions.

And the death count is only 500. Yeah, right.
 

Winston

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Yes, far fewer infections of 2019-nCoV right now than the common flu, but with an Ro estimated to be about 3 versus the common flu's 1.28 and a death rate possibly 30 times as great with possible asymptomatic, post-symptomatic (with corresponding postmortem), and vertical transmissibility, if it ever became even remotely as common here as the common flu, we are screwed. Why else do you think China is putting entire huge cities with multi-million populations under quarantine with one person from each family allowed to venture outside once every five days for supplies? The good news: the right things are being done in the US to guard against it gaining a foothold here.

 

Winston

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Small sample, not peer reviewed. Possibly very good news for non-Asians.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full.pdf

We also noticed that the only Asian donor (male) has a much higher ACE2-expressing cell ratio than white and African American donors (2.50% vs. 0.47% of all cells). This might explain the observation that the new Coronavirus pandemic and previous SARS-Cov pandemic are concentrated in the Asian area.

This table shows the HUGE preference for SARS cases only in Asian countries:

Cumulative Number of Reported Probable Cases of SARS

https://www.who.int/csr/sars/country/2003_07_11/en/
 

cwbullet

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Yes, far fewer infections of 2019-nCoV right now than the common flu, but with an Ro estimated to be about 3 versus the common flu's 1.28 and a death rate possibly 30 times as great with possible asymptomatic, post-symptomatic (with corresponding postmortem), and vertical transmissibility, if it ever became even remotely as common here as the common flu, we are screwed. Why else do you think China is putting entire huge cities with multi-million populations under quarantine with one person from each family allowed to venture outside once every five days for supplies? The good news: the right things are being done in the US to guard against it gaining a foothold here.

This data is based on estimates and may not be accurate. The seasonal flue charts typically lump A&B together. These are completely different viruses and B is over 50% of the infections this year and has a much lower fatality rate. Influenza A is the one you gotta worry about.
 

Steven

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I hope my rockets don't catch anything.
 

Steven

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At 583 fatalities, the air accident at Tenerife is ahead.
 

cwbullet

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At 583 fatalities, the air accident at Tenerife is ahead.
That should bring things into perspective. The reason this so deadly in China is they have a crapload of people shoehorned into their cities.
 
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