Coronavirus: Face Shields vs Face Mask

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Would you wear a face shield?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 43.5%
  • No

    Votes: 8 34.8%
  • Only if it looks like Vader's mask

    Votes: 5 21.7%

  • Total voters
    23

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
24,768
Reaction score
2,925
Location
Glennville, GA
There are indications that a face shield may be superior to the mask if recommended for the public would you were one?

 

KennB

I-95 Envoy
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
2,339
Reaction score
142
Location
Amesbury, MA
I've not worn a shield so don't know how that would feel or how easy/hard it would be but I'd certainly give it a try. I've finally found some face covers that are comfortable for longer periods of time; my guess would be the combination of the two is the best idea.

The shield would better help with keeping people (me especially) from touching their faces. Most discussions focus on face covers but I'd imagine many are still getting the virus from touching surfaces then their faces and not washing/sanitizing enough.
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
869
Reaction score
500
Location
NE Indiana
It depends. For most tasks outside of work, I find a cloth mask to be more comfortable and less cumbersome than a shield. When transporting patients, I would much rather keep a shield down and prevent my speech and breathing from being restricted on a low risk case. For higher risk patients, I know my shield and N95 or P100 masks are better protection and may be worth the increased risk of heat related problems.
 

Funkworks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
551
Reaction score
232
Here's a list of occupations where people wear stuff near their face:

- fireman
- scuba diver
- biochemist
- semiconductor manufacturer
- miner
- race car driver
- pilot
- biker of any kind
- surgeon and all related
- painter (car or building)
- downhill snow sports
- actors and entertainers (loads of make-up, at least)
- baseball, football and hockey players
- construction worker
- welder
- soldier
- airport operations
- power grid maintenance workers
- business people (ties can be mandatory)
- kitchen employees (hair nets etc.)

I'm certainly missing many. The one thing they all have in common is none of them is complaining about having to wear the part. Where it protects my health, of course I'll wear it. As long as it's available and people don't act weird about it.
 
Last edited:

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
24,768
Reaction score
2,925
Location
Glennville, GA
Face masks fog up my glasses.
I have to agree that it is a pain. I had vision restoration surgery. My son hates to wear a mask because of fogging.
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
452
Reaction score
217
Location
Barstow, CA
I have to agree that it is a pain. I had vision restoration surgery. My son hates to wear a mask because of fogging.
If your glasses fog then your mask is not properly designed or not being worn properly. If you are not exhaling through the mask it is doing nothing but changing the direction of your breath.

A face shield may be much safer as we get into summer months. One major concern with respirators during hot conditions is the increase in likelihood of heat stress. Heat stress guidelines substantially reduce exposure times when respirators are required, including nuisance dust masks.
 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
24,768
Reaction score
2,925
Location
Glennville, GA
If your glasses fog then your mask is not properly designed or not being worn properly. If you are not exhaling through the mask it is doing nothing but changing the direction of your breath.

A face shield may be much safer as we get into summer months. One major concern with respirators during hot conditions is the increase in likelihood of heat stress. Heat stress guidelines substantially reduce exposure times when respirators are required, including nuisance dust masks.
And humidity and sweat make them less effective.
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
452
Reaction score
217
Location
Barstow, CA
I'm certainly missing many. The one thing they all have in common is none of them is complaining about having to wear the part. Where it protects my health, of course I'll wear it. As long as it's available and people don't act weird about it.
You have obviously never worked with some of these folks. Among power grid, and power plant, workers complaining is an art form. And this time of year when the respirator increases heat stress it gets louder.
 
Last edited:

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
869
Reaction score
500
Location
NE Indiana
I can't speak for all of those professions, DaveW6DPS is right. When firefighting, we typically go to "rehab" after changing the 2nd or 3rd air bottle, remove the SCBA, open up or take off your turnout coat, drink water, and maybe even a quick check of vitals. A "30 Minute" bottle typically lasts 10 or 15 minutes. It is hard working with respirators on. We get used to it, but it affects our bodies. I'm not on the fire side much at all any more, but our respirator use, helmets, and clothing takes its toll. It is an added risk and we need to make sure it is a necessary trade for known risks.
 

DaveW6DPS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
452
Reaction score
217
Location
Barstow, CA
... A "30 Minute" bottle typically lasts 10 or 15 minutes. It is hard working with respirators on. We get used to it, but it affects our bodies...
Yeah, "30 minute" Scott Air Packs that I have seen a firefighter suck dry in less than 10 during training. We had to use Draeger for industrial uses, which has a smaller bottle but is nuclear rated.

Getting acclimated to high heat and low humidity takes time, and getting acclimated to working in a respirator usually doesn't happen and makes heat stress much more of an issue. I do not plan on doing WBGT readings at launches, but we will be emphasizing heat stress reduction even more than usual. Assuming we get to launch before winter.

Enough venting. Face shields may be a great alternative to face coverings. (Yes, I do remember the original topic...)
 

Rocket501

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
141
Reaction score
45
That's a great looking DIY PAPR. Would you be willing to share some info on how you made it?
 

Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

Just a teen who likes building rockets
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
530
Reaction score
116
Location
Georgia, USA
That's a great looking DIY PAPR. Would you be willing to share some info on how you made it?
Yes

 

cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
Staff member
Administrator
TRF Lifetime Supporter
Global Mod
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
24,768
Reaction score
2,925
Location
Glennville, GA
Yes

Guy on the Prusa forum did something similar.
 

dr wogz

Fly caster
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
5,304
Reaction score
652
Location
Land of Poutine!
I had a thought on this last night. Many parts of Canada are considering making mask wearing mandatory when outside, on a bus (or train or..) when going into stores, etc..

So, does a mask or face shield work better?

A mask covers your mouth & nose, it is essentially a filter for inhaling & exhaling.

A face shield covers your face, not your mouth or nose directly. It will protect it from direct "projectiles". But it doe snot cover your mouth or nose. It is open all around the perimeter of the shield. So, your mouth & nose aren't covered, nor the air you breath is "filtered" as a mask would.

example: You're on a bus, and someone is directly in front of you, facing you. They sneeze or cough, basically "in your face" (how rude!) a face shield will shield your face from the immediate, direct 'spray' of the cough or shneeze. The smaller, lighter particles will still float around in the turbulent airflow. you'll then be able to breath in these particles, as the gap around the perimeter of the face shield is open. You have no method of filtering the air as a mask would.

Which is more likely an entry point for the virus / contaminants? Your mouth / nose? or eyes / skin pores?
 

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
869
Reaction score
500
Location
NE Indiana
Which is more likely an entry point for the virus / contaminants? Your mouth / nose? or eyes / skin pores?
Mouth and nose, then eyes and other mucus membranes. Skin is a pretty good barrier unless there is an open wound. Surface transmission of pathogens generally occurs from touching something, then rubbing your eyes and touching your face.

Even when someone is incredibly low risk for a disease, it is best practice for us to wear eye protection and a surgical mask when performing airway care like intubation and suctioning because some body fluids will probably spray or splatter onto us.
 

BABAR

Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
5,780
Reaction score
1,203
i have a problem with this question,

“What are we wearing it FOR?”

Quote from the article is post 1

Masks protect others around you from germs you are carrying. Face shields do the opposite, protecting you from being infected by the people around you.

At our hospital personnel with patient contact are now required to wear BOTH.

Seems like most TRF posters here in US are reporting that most people they see in stores and just “around” aren’t wearing any protective gear. (Here where I am most people are maskless and I have seen zero face shields in public.). I’d say that for PUBLIC use, advocating for or even suggesting, as this post does, substitutes a confusing paradigm shift, are we trying to protect others from ourselves (if we become at some time asymptomatic spreading Typhoid Mary people..... obviously if we ARE symptomatic we SHOULD be self quarantining and not going out at ALL) by wearing a mask to catch our own droplets before they hit the airwaves, or do we wear face shields to protect OURSELVES from others

Be nice to have some “expert” opinion on which strategy is best for public as well as individual health. Of course, none of that matters when their is a governmental leadership vacuum at so many levels.
 

Funkworks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
551
Reaction score
232
A mask is a scaled-down pasta strainer. It works both ways for any water (saliva) droplets above over a certain size. When people breathe, talk, cough and sneeze, they shoot out all sizes of droplets.

8516_v1.jpg


A face shield is a shield made for a face. I blocks all sizes of water droplets, and even small, gently thrown rocks and ninja stars (I call this experimental humour, don't any idiot try this).

studded-viking-shield-3.gif.jpeg

Because water (saliva) droplets are so small, they're practically invisible and their momentum can't be felt, so many people apparently don't believe in them.

Do masks and face shields look good? As a physics-type person, I'm not someone who really cares about that part. All I know is things have size.
 
Last edited:

NateB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
869
Reaction score
500
Location
NE Indiana
At our hospital personnel with patient contact are now required to wear BOTH.
Some of us are now "highly recommended" to wear a mask, shield, and goggles which seal around your eyes on all patient contacts and "required" to do so while performing an intubation or other procedures which can aerosolize secretions.
 

BABAR

Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Lifetime Supporter
TRF Supporter
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
5,780
Reaction score
1,203
A mask is a scaled-down pasta strainer. It works both ways for any water (saliva) droplets above over a certain size. When people breathe, talk, cough and sneeze, they shoot out all sizes of droplets.

View attachment 423350

A face shield is a shield made for a face. It blocks all sizes of water droplets, and even small, gently thrown rocks and ninja stars (I call this experimental humour, don't any idiot try this).


Because water (saliva) droplets are so small, they're practically invisible and their momentum can't be felt, so many people apparently don't believe in them.

Do masks and face shields look good? As a physics-type person, I'm not someone who really cares about that part. All I know is things have size.
I struggle with this a bit.

People have emphasized that with masks, if your glasses are fogging up, much of your exhaled breath is simply going around the mask, carrying the virus droplets with it. I also struggle a little with the concept that even if your basic NON N95 mask IS sealed correctly, the pores are small enough to reduce the droplets you breath out (so it protects OTHERS from you, but too BIG to protect you from droplets others have exhaled. Do the droplets get smaller after they are exhaled? Maybe they do, as the water evaporates they are lighter and even more likely to be remain airborne. And apparently standard masks don’t trap these tiny particles.

NOW we are considering Face Shields. The ONLY particles a face shield protects you from are airborne particles with some velocity or momentum, directional particles impact on the face shield. True, relatively motionless airborne “floaties” are going to go wherever the air they are suspended in goes. The face shield has NO pores, so the air you inhale is simply transiting around the sides and bottom of the shield. So a face shield doesn’t block any freely suspended particles from the air you breathe. It DOES reduce surface contamination of your face, particularly your eyes above the dynamic respiratory air stream.

It IS possible that much of airborne transmission is from particles settling on the eye surfaces. This makes sense, as the eyes drain into the nose through the lacrimal duct (this is why your nose runs when you cry), and THIS transmission certainly would be reduced by a face shield. Since we also frequently even if unintentionally touch our eyes with our fingers, a face shield also reduces transmission via

Infected person to surface (plain breathing, apparently with Asymptomatic or Pre-Symptomatic people, cough, nasal secretions, etc.)
Surface to finger of uninfected person
Finger to eye
Eye to nose mucosa
Nose to respiratory tract

It also reduces airflow around the eyes, so chance of random particle “landing” on the eye decreased.
As mentioned, it also protect from particles with velocity, although given how small these have to be to remain airborne, I suspect this is minimal.

Key point still is paradigm shift, non-N95 masks are worn to protect others, the face shield is worn to protect YOU.

Given the (pick one or both) selfishness or apathy of our average American citizen, my suspicion is that if cost and convenience factors (ease of use ) are equal, more people would wear face shields, I am sad to say that, but given the lack of public masking such seems to be the case. We reap what sow (or, in the failure of masking, we reap what we fail to sew.)
 

Funkworks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
551
Reaction score
232
I was quite excited to find this in my feed, so let's say it expands on the ramblings of my previous post here.
 
Top