Copperhead Replacements

[prowlerguy]

Does anyone know of a source of replacement ignitors for the 18mm and 24mm RMS and SU of Aerotech? I can never seem to get those copperheads to fit. I have a few "Firefly" ignitors left, but it seems they are no longer made (according to Ken Allen).

 

[shreadvector]

Magnelite pyrogen used with very thin lead wires and a fairly thin bridge wire (32 or 34 ga nichrome). Thin is good and make sure the pyrogen dip covers a good length of the top of the igniter and not just a tiny area at the tip.

On sale now:

https://www.rocketflite.com/

https://www.rocketflite.com/products_ml.asp

 

[tquigg]

The new Quest Q2G2 igniters work very well with 24mm Aerotech reloads. Although I have not had the opportunity to use them in 18mm motors, I would think they would also work well with them. The wire leads on the new Quest Q2G2 igniters are just long enough for the 24mm motors. I haven't used a Copperhead since these came out.

Tim Quigg

 

[shreadvector]

The new Quest Q2G2 igniters work very well with 24mm Aerotech reloads. Although I have not had the opportunity to use them in 18mm motors, I would think they would also work well with them. The wire leads on the new Quest Q2G2 igniters are just long enough for the 24mm motors. I haven't used a Copperhead since these came out.

Tim Quigg

Thank you! i was wondering about how they would work in the 18mm and 24mm (and if they wouold fit) but I only had to help folks with 29mm motor igniters during our launch on Sunday. I have a lot of the new Quest motors and igniters, so I will make an effort to try the Q2G2 in an 18mm and a 24mm RMS motor at our next launch on 2/7. That even gives me time to actually get a few extra models ready and select some reloads. I may even try them in some very old loads (after lightly sanding the surface).

 

[BAR0051]

Aerotech is selling First Fire Jr's through https://www.valuerockets.com/
The order form says they are for D & E motors. I have never tried them, I make my own using 30 ga. lead wire & 32 ga. nichrome bridge wire that I dip. Maybe some else has tried a First Fire Jr. in a 18mm or 24mm Aerotech motor.

 

[prowlerguy]

Thank you for the info. I was looking for a "store-bought" igniter, and those Quest sound good. I had seen the AT First-Fire Jr, but their product catalog describes them as being for F & G/29mm & 38mm.

 

[shreadvector]

Can someone post a picture of the Q2G2? Thanks.

Google it.

https://www.apogeerockets.com/igniters.asp

4th link down using google.

 

[BAR0051]

According to Gary at Aerotech, the D & E SU motors ship with a 3 in. First Fire Jr.
See https://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2644&page=8

 

[MarkM]

I used the First Fire Jr to light the E18 with no problem.

 

[shreadvector]

OK, I just ordered a bunch of ValuRockets single use and RMS D and E motors. If they arrive before my 2/7 launch I will see what they come with and also see how the Q2G2 igniters fit and how they work. otherwise I will have to use my existing sully of 18mm and 24mm reloads.

 

[brianc]

Just checked-

A random Q2G2 from my stash did NOT fit thru the
18mm RMS D13 nozzle, but did go thru the D24 nozzle.

 

[shreadvector]

Just checked-

A random Q2G2 from my stash did NOT fit thru the
18mm RMS D13 nozzle, but did go thru the D24 nozzle.

How about this: Will the leads fit through the nozzle if installed from above during assy? If the only thing preventing the Q2M2 from fitting is the blob of pyrogen, that will burn off right away and the leads should be free to be blown out the nozzle.

And we can always remove the insulation from one of the two lead wires to make them thinner.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Ever since I chuffed my F14 just enough to get it off the rod, then 20' in the air and back into the ground with an 18mm D13; I always place the copper head igniter in the grain first before I load it. This guarantees that it's placed at the top of the grain, and also I don't have to worry about fitting the pyrogen end through the nozzle. I know it's not the safest practice, but please consider how challenging it can be to get copperheads to light. Also, it's not HPR, so you don't have to worry about installing the igniter at the launch pad anyway.

One more tip with 18mm reloads. open up the forward closure a little bit, by drilling it out. I just held the closure in my fingers because I was worried that I'd mess up the threads in a vice... Previously, I had about 60% success rate with ejection with the standard size opening. I'm now 100% (one for one) with a larger opening.

I had all but given up on my 18mm RMS but now with a larger opening, I'll keep loading it until I loose it

 

[Handeman]

........... I always place the copper head igniter in the grain first before I load it. This guarantees that it's placed at the top of the grain, and also I don't have to worry about fitting the pyrogen end through the nozzle. I know it's not the safest practice, but please consider how challenging it can be to get copperheads to light. Also, it's not HPR, so you don't have to worry about installing the igniter at the launch pad anyway.

D

It's also the way the Aerotech instructions say to install the ignitor. I've found that sanding the C slot and leaving the dust in place and putting the ignitor in as per the instructions has elimited a lot of problems and makes for very dependable ignition. I bought a 10 pack of ignitors back in 2003, gave two away and still have five left. I just don't have many problems with copperheads.

 

[Obi-Wan]

It's also the way the Aerotech instructions say to install the ignitor.

...I would never admit to reading the instructions... Perhaps that's why it took four attempts to achieve L1.

 

[Handeman]

...I would never admit to reading the instructions... Perhaps that's why it took four attempts to achieve L1.

But you got to fly L1 motors everytime!

 

[atticus]

My ValueRockets order arrived Friday. This morning I did a some experimenting.
I tried the 3" FirstFire Jr for fit in the 18mm reloads. They will pass the nozzle of the D24 but NOT the D13. They do fit the grain slot, but some are very tight.
Next, I opened a pack of D10s (AT SU) to see what igniter was included. They are FFjrs, but appear to have less of a pyrogen bulge. Even so they won't pass the D13 nozzle.
Those (D10 supplied) will fit nice in the D10, but the ones from the 3-packs won't.
Next I opened a pack of Q2G2s. They fit the D10 but still won't pass through the D13 nozzle. These look identical to the 3" FFjrs, but with less pyrogen - see photo.
Copperheads won't pass the D13 throat either, but do fit fit the D10.

Bottom line - lot's of choices for the D24, but for the D13 you'll have to install during assembly or make your own.

Tim

 

[tquigg]

Makes me wonder if the 3" Aerotech FFJ's and the new Q2 igniters (amount of pyrogen being the only difference) aren't being made by the same manufacturer for both companies?

 

[cwbullet]

I personally moved to handmade ignitors with magnalite. I have yet to have a failure. I have even lit some motors that failed with 3-4 ignitors in a row but were lit with my ignitors. I have yet to have a failure with one of them.

I use 30 gauge Kynar single conductor copper wire with 40 gauge nichrome wrapped 5 times and soldered in to place. It works well.

 

[shreadvector]

Makes me wonder if the 3" Aerotech FFJ's and the new Q2 igniters (amount of pyrogen being the only difference) aren't being made by the same manufacturer for both companies?

I'm not wondering, I'm assuming they are. Mine should arrive today or in the next few days (depending on if the USPS truck stopped in Las Vegas for a few days of fun). I appreciated the photo as I had not seen these new 3" FFJr's before.

This ValueRockets thing could indeed help get more people addicted. And I would bet that a bunch of folks that normally fly mostly C and D Estes motors will now add the D and E Aerotech motors to their mix.

 

[Jamski]

This ValueRockets thing could indeed help get more people addicted. And I would bet that a bunch of folks that normally fly mostly C and D Estes motors will now add the D and E Aerotech motors to their mix.

I would bet you are right, sir. I'm just waiting for the tax check...

 

[shreadvector]

My order arrived. I PM'd Gary to ask if the igniters are as sensitive as the QUest Q2M2 (if so, they will not require 12 volts).