Well, the arms do rotate about the center. It's just that our system is on its own individual path.
Congress says some UFOs have a non-human origin.
- Thread starter Dotini
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
The sun is about 27000 light years from the center of the Milky Way, in an arm called the "Orion Spur". The galaxy's diameter is believed to be around 100,000 to 120,000 light years.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2019
- Messages
- 6,154
- Reaction score
- 4,342
Can I have your liver then?
So, I finished the Ancient Apocalypse series on Netflix.
As expected it was an enjoyable watch and I found the arguments as presented pretty compelling.
However, since it was presented in a very one sided way, it's hard to ascribe any scientific validity to his overall hypothesis.
What I would love as a follow-up is a point by point (episode by episode?) "rebuttal" by actual archaeologists because I get the sense that Graham Alexander's positions and questions may not be as far apart from accepted science as he proposed.
I bet a lot of mainstream scientists would say "of course we agree we need to further study XXX" or whatnot. That's how new scientists get their PhDs and established scientists get their grants.
On the other hand I think he is probably reaching pretty far from established data, and this view is reinforced by the recent push by some mainstream scientists to have this program reclassified as fiction instead of documentary.
Overall, though well produced, without more connection to the data and scientific analysis, this sort of strikes me as closer to some of the pandemic pseudoscience we saw from fringe elements.
Personally I think he gets off on putting himself forward as the "crackpot victim" of mainstream archaeology. He does it effectively, but when someone portrays themself as a crackpot, it often makes sense to believe them.
I would love to hear a debate/discussion/analysis between both sides but unless such a thing happens I file this with the other fake science stuff like Ancient Aliens.
As expected it was an enjoyable watch and I found the arguments as presented pretty compelling.
However, since it was presented in a very one sided way, it's hard to ascribe any scientific validity to his overall hypothesis.
What I would love as a follow-up is a point by point (episode by episode?) "rebuttal" by actual archaeologists because I get the sense that Graham Alexander's positions and questions may not be as far apart from accepted science as he proposed.
I bet a lot of mainstream scientists would say "of course we agree we need to further study XXX" or whatnot. That's how new scientists get their PhDs and established scientists get their grants.
On the other hand I think he is probably reaching pretty far from established data, and this view is reinforced by the recent push by some mainstream scientists to have this program reclassified as fiction instead of documentary.
Overall, though well produced, without more connection to the data and scientific analysis, this sort of strikes me as closer to some of the pandemic pseudoscience we saw from fringe elements.
Personally I think he gets off on putting himself forward as the "crackpot victim" of mainstream archaeology. He does it effectively, but when someone portrays themself as a crackpot, it often makes sense to believe them.
I would love to hear a debate/discussion/analysis between both sides but unless such a thing happens I file this with the other fake science stuff like Ancient Aliens.
There’s a whole subset of fans of popular media who love feeling aggrieved, to the point of producing or going out of their way to engage with social media content that validates their accusations of “oppression” by big media companies and fabricates reports of imminent justice (or justice done) to the supposed perpetrators. A YouTube search for Kathleen Kennedy brings up many results of this type.
This group of toxic fans crosses over with (and also has some shared membership with) some well-publicized extremist political movements that are also sometimes characterized as emerging religions or cults.
It’s a classic aberration in human psychology that meets the need to feel pandered to, both by the superiority of having some kind of special knowledge, and by the inferiority of not being taken seriously. Mr. Alexander appears to be displaying traits common to these groupings.
If what you say and what I guess about Mr. Alexander is accurate, he’s almost certain to not be a credible researcher. Fashioning an underdog story doesn’t improve the validity of any set of claims, as science is simply not fooled by crocodile tears.
Last edited:
Right. He opens the series stating he isn't an archaeologist or scientist more generally, but he his a journalist looking to figure it out the story of human civilization. Ok fair enough. Ultimately this was entertainment, and I was entertained.
It's not in the same class as the David Attenborough series that also are not exactly presented as science per se, but observational stories intended to increase appreciation of the natural world. That said, While Attenborough is a natural historian and naturalist, he has clearly advanced the cause of science and I accept what he says as being scientifically valid.
It's not in the same class as the David Attenborough series that also are not exactly presented as science per se, but observational stories intended to increase appreciation of the natural world. That said, While Attenborough is a natural historian and naturalist, he has clearly advanced the cause of science and I accept what he says as being scientifically valid.
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2022
- Messages
- 1,749
- Reaction score
- 1,763
Let's also not forget that Attenborough is also usually produced by the BBC, who generally have a higher standard of true journalism to adhere to, while American TV often caters to the lowest common denominator.
I'm grateful that we have a lot of erudite people making erudite remarks in this popular thread, but let's remember the topic here is the government interest in UAPs. Even though some officials think the phenomena may be of non-human origin, extended discussion of ancient aliens is a stretch that needs it's own thread.
Here is a relevant connection between Ancient Aliens and the government's UFO investigations - a long interview with Dr Travis Taylor, former Chief Scientist on the UAP Task Force:
Wait, is that the same Travis Taylor derided as a quack by the same erudite types here in this very thread? He is the lead scientist on the UAP task force? How can that be? Inquiring minds want to know. And like 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon, isn’t he also the same guy quoted in the book I suggested folks check out who also says that paranormal
occurrences accompany UFO sightings? Very curious indeed.
occurrences accompany UFO sightings? Very curious indeed.
I'll preface this by saying I don't have a dog in this fight. This is what I found in a search for facts:
https://www.theblackvault.com/docum...dr-travis-taylors-uap-task-force-involvement/
Excerpts quoting a Pentagon spokesperson:
Q1. Based on this story, can it be confirmed that Dr. Travis Taylor was the “chief scientist” for the UAP Task Force? If so, just wanting for clarity reasons to confirm it was an official, and paid, position on the UAPTF? And can it be confirmed Jay Stratton was the one who hired him for the job?
“A1. The Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force (UAPTF) was and is (until the follow-on Department of Defense [DOD] organization is fully operational) a partnership across federal and DOD agencies, with a variety of organizations providing personnel as required. Dr. Taylor was a government employee assigned to the U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command (SMDC). SMDC provided Dr. Taylor on a time-limited basis as part of a larger number of contributing organizations across the DOD, the Intelligence Community (IC), and other parts of the federal government to assist with the stand-up of the UAPTF and its reporting requirements. It was not a full time assignment; he remained an employee of SMDC. In early 2021, following consultations with the UAPTF, SMDC worked to clarify and de-conflict assigned tasks, responsibilities, and outside activities to balance mission priorities.
At the time of Dr. Taylor’s initial work with the UAPTF, former Office of Naval Intelligence senior civilian John Stratton was leading the effort and informally referred to Dr. Taylor as his chief scientist as efforts to assemble a larger team were underway.”
More:
Q3. In the story I linked above, it directly contradicts Scott Bray’s testimony that the triangular/pyramid shaped objects in the videos presented were drones. According to this story, “Dr. Taylor went into much greater detail about why the ‘drone’ scenario falls far short of explaining the 2019 UFO encounters.” It also states that UAP Task Force members “…were stunned to hear a Navy official tell a Congressional hearing last month that all of these were ‘drones, as if the mystery has been solved. Someone had to disregard the work of the task force to make that claim.” Can you comment on the validity of these claims, and why this would contradict Scott Bray’s Congressional testimony under oath? If it is still the position, can it be said if the “drone” conclusion came after the UAPTF was disbanded, and if so, where did that conclusion come from that was given to Congress?
A3. “Dr. Taylor’s work with the UAPTF focused on scientific and technical advice provided as a research scientist, and not on intelligence analysis. The UAPTF stands by the conclusions presented by Director Bray in his briefing.”
In other words the Pentagon supports Dr. Bray's conclusion that they were drones, not Taylor's conclusions..
Another interesting article about Mr. Taylor:
https://www.science.org/content/article/pentagon-ufo-study-led-researcher-who-believes-supernatural
The UAPTF has been disbanded and replaced with another task force.
Apparently Mr. Taylor's involvement with the UAPTF was brief (Wikipedia):
"Taylor was briefly the informal chief scientist on the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.[10] He is also a Principal Research Scientist at Radiance Technologies.[11]"
Perhaps this is why?
“In early 2021, following consultations with the UAPTF, SMDC took steps to clarify and de-conflict assigned tasks, responsibilities, and outside activities to balance mission priorities.”
Clarify and deconflict = removed from the task force?
Last edited:
7 degrees of separation? How odd would it be to have 2 degrees of separation with Adolf Hitler? Coincidences can be interesting, but meaningful?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-01/how-coincidences-help-us-make-sense-of-the-world
Last edited:
Titan II
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2013
- Messages
- 2,021
- Reaction score
- 1,157
I would replace "erudite" with "pseudo-intellectual."
The saucers are real! Here's the evidence!
Thanks for the strange coincidences article...very interesting! I've had an unusually high number of such and always wondered about it being God vs. Science vs. coincidence.
Every time I go outside at night I think about what I saw during the summer. It's still amazing. I hop I get to see something like them again. Now I take my phone with me when I go outside.
On September 11, 2001, a Princeton University lab was recording output from 37 random number generators installed in college laboratory basements spread around the globe. For some minutes before the horrible event and for several hours afterward, they appeared to be generating non-random numbers. The researchers were on the trail of some kind of global consciousness evidence. Did they find it? A related question - are some UAP sightings related to human consciousness? Some researchers have suggested the phenomena may be related to alternate dimensions or timelines. Are they from the future? Are they us?
https://noosphere.princeton.edu/911formal.html
@teepot
A word of caution is in order. When we go out seeking personal contact with wild animals or with paranormal phenomena, there is a chance the experience will be negative. Always be cautious. But do keep wondering.
My life has been anything but usual. I grew up with something akin to ESP to such a degree that I started asking myself if I was making things happen. In the end, it was just too much confusion for my young mind (and talking to people was no use...they were always uncomfortable with that), that I decided to try to figure out the logic and science of everything and just see the esp things as cool surprises or "gifts". Something very comforting about that.
However none of us should ever think that we know best and that other's stories are their imagination or that of tin hat crackpots or conspiracy theorists.
Throughout history mankind has always thought they knew best only to be disproven later. Animals predicting earthquakes baloney? Maybe until science showed they could detect ultralow frequencies preceeding an earthquake.
It is the same false pride of "I know everything" that took down many civilizations.
It's also imo a mistake to think there aren't others out there. Ask the Mayans or Native Americans.
But to better frame this, like Star Trek, if you were the advanced race visiting a more primitive planet, what would you do?
Purportedly...
There are also a number of on record arguments against their conclusions. One of the articles is attached.
Very interesting. Probably more could added to each of your points. But to answer your ending question, I admire Star Trek and the prime directive. But rather than a more advanced race visiting Earth in a physical sense, I imagine there is a higher consciousness at work. But if we are intent on destroying ourselves, I don't think it can or will intervene directly.
My mom is an alien.
Doubtful. But you might try to contact Agent Mulder at the FBI.
Don't really think they'd be interested...
: a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country.
Last edited:
A favorite STNG episode of mine is "Who watches the watchers?"
It deals with consequences of monitoring a prewarp culture and accidentally exposing the surveillance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_W...is,broadcast_on_October_16,_1989.?wprov=sfla1
I don't believe that ET's would be hostile. What do we have that can't be gotten from asteroids or uninhabitable planets. Other than ourselves. "To Serve Man". Maybe we are a history class for some distant race. If it's us, would we change the time line to stop a nuclear war. Is there a time line. I think of time as a large tree with many branches. I know I have been at many crossroads in my life. Do one thing for a minute and it changes your life. An example is me being at the right place at the right time to see that craft make a right angle change of direction. I feel vindicated for my belief in ET's. It sure was an interesting summer.
I'd agree. A race advanced enough to travel to this planet would/should already be able to get anything it needs without taking it from us (or eating us lol).
Right now they're probably too saddened by what they see on our news and maybe instead they visit us like we visit zoos or like a nature photographer hiding behind a camouflaged spot.
@teepot
IMHO, one thing for sure we know about the phenomena is that it likes to visit nuclear installations of every kind. It apparently does not like them. But that it does nothing about them means that we have free will to destroy ourselves, and possibly also their environment in some way important to them/it. We could view this as a message or signal to remove or lower usage of nuclear weapons and maybe even nuclear power. We also know for sure that humanity uses and thinks it needs even more nuclear power and nuclear weapons than ever before. So we are hurtling towards a crossroads with destiny. Woe betide the driver who wrecks at the crossroads.
Or maybe they're gauging how advanced we are by observing the power plants.
(Maybe to see how far off we are from warp technology.
)Similar threads
